Changes in the GAA - super thread

Why have 5 Div 2, 3 Div 3 and 2 Div 4 teams and only 6 Div 1.

You are excluding the 7th and 8th best teams in the country from the last 16 while adding the 13th, 19th and 26th.

I think its acceptable as teams in both divisions start out with a chance to play in and for the liam Mccarthy.

I think your argument that it's only tolerated cos they won't win anyway is a very ignorant and elitist attitude to have. Surely your logic could be applied to football or are the division 4 teams not allowed to cause a shock and win a game

My proposal retains the possibility for the provincial system to secure a spot in the race for Sam, but with a significant twist.

The 32 teams (31 from the island of Ireland + London) are divided into 4 Ranganna (let's take the order of the 2021 league as a starting point, I'm organising them in pairs as there were no divisional finals (apart from Div 3), and there are never finals to find the worst team in the division. But the exact order will potentially become important in later years).

• Rang A: Kerry & Dublin, Donegal & Tyrone, Armagh & Monaghan, Galway & Roscommon
• Rang B: Mayo & Kildare, Clare & Meath, Cork & Down, Westmeath & Laois
• Rang C: Derry & Offaly, Limerick & Fermanagh, Wicklow & Longford, Cavan & Tipperary
• Rang D: Louth & Antrim, Carlow & Waterford, Wexford & Sligo, Leitrim & London

Teams from Ranganna 1 & 2 are drawn to form 4 groups of 4 in the group stage of the All-Ireland championship, this could be randomly done, but I prefer this system:

• A1, A5, B4, B8 (Kerry, Armagh, Meath, Westmeath)
• A2, A6, B3, B7 (Dublin, Monaghan, Clare, Laois)
• A3, A7, B2, B6 (Donegal, Galway, Kildare, Down)
• A4, A8, B1, B5 (Tyrone, Roscommon, Mayo, Cork)

Teams play each other on a home and away basis, so 6 games each in the group stage.

The top 2 in each group qualify directly for the All-Ireland SFC quarter-finals and go into Rang A for 2023.

The bottom 2 in each group go into the relegation quarter-finals (ordered by strongest playing weakest) and semi-finals in order to find 2 teams that will drop to Rang C of the following year. The remaining 6 will play in Rang B in 2023.

The same system applies for Ranganna C and D (Tailteann Cup or whatever form it takes), the top 2 of each group qualify directly for the Tailteann Cup quarter-finals, with the finalists securing promotion to Rang B the following year. The remaining 6 will play in Rang C in 2023. The 8 teams that finish bottom in each of the 4 groups finish their season here.

• A1, A5, B4, B8 (Derry, Wicklow, Waterford, London)
• A2, A6, B3, B7 (Offaly, Longford, Carlow, Leitrim)
• A3, A7, B2, B6 (Limerick, Cavan, Antrim, Sligo)
• A4, A8, B1, B5 (Fermanagh, Tipperary, Louth, Wexford))

The major twist is that the above would be the provisional placing of teams for the 2022 championship, subject to the outcomes of the 2022 provincial championships which will be played in early 2022, with the caveat that a team from Rang C or Rang D that makes it to a provincial final would have a place in the All-Ireland SFC.

Let's imagine Cavan and Tipperary reawake from the dead and get to a provincial final in the spring of 2022 (and this could be made all the more likely if an open draw is imposed on the provincial councils). Then Cavan and Tipperary will slip into the All-Ireland championship, but not at the expense of the 2 teams that have been promoted from the Tailteann Cup in 2021, but from teams 5 and 6 in rang B.

(The exact order of teams in Rang B becomes important if 1 or 3 teams come out of the provincial system)

• In this system, each of the 33 counties have the opportunity to play in the All-Ireland SFC (New York included, if they manage to get to a Connacht final!)
• Suspense is maintained for the composition of the teams in the All-Ireland SFC until the provincial final stage is reached
• Finishing in Rang 2 does not guarantee a place in the All-Ireland SFC of the following year, but the higher up you are, the less chance you have of being replaced by a provincial finalist
• Dead-rubbers will be less likely, as team will try to avoid being badly-placed in Rang B but they could of course happen
• A minimum of 7 games per team, many will play 8, the All-Ireland and Tailteann winners would have played 9

Let's be having ye 🤓

And if someone can mail this on to Colm Parkinson, ye can tell him he can label it as The Wooly championship Mark II.

You also have Limerick in there twice

Ranganna = plural of rang

My tuppence worth;

1. Provincial finalists advance to Final 16.

2. Tier 2 winner from previous year advances to Final 16.

3. 14 teams based on league ranking and Tier 3 winner from previous year playoff for 7 places in the Final 16. (If the Tier 2 winner from the previous year has made their provincial final, 15 teams based on league ranking and Tier 3 winner from previous year playoff for 8 places in the Final 16.)

4. 8 Final 16 qualifier losers compete in Tier 2 Championship. Winner advances to Final 16 of the following year.

5. 8 teams excluded from the Final 16 qualifiers compete in Tier 3 Championship. Winner advances to the Final 16 qualifiers of the following year.

a. Final 16 in 4 groups of 4. Provincial finalists rewarded with 2 home games. Top 2 from each group advance to quarter-finals.

b. Tier 2 in 2 groups of 4. Top 2 from each group advance to semi-finals.

c. Tier 3 in 2 groups of 4. Top 2 from each group advance to semi-finals.

d. The Tier 2 and Tier 3 finals can be played before the All-Ireland semi-finals.

That's exactly it but unfortunately those who hold the most power are running the provincial shows and they won't let that get diluted without a fight. You also have those that think a 6 or 8 team competition with 3 games to win it is something to jump up and down about. I can understand it if a county who have no success win one because it means taking out two counties ranked higher than them but any team who win one at least once a decade really shouldn't have any interest in it. All Irelands are the currency by which any team is judged.

Lets have a look at that with some real life examples, lets use 2019, the last good year.

The Provincial finals would be as follows.

Galway and Roscommon.

Dublin and Meath.

Cork and Kerry.

Cavan and Donegal.

The groups (for the Sam McGuire) would be as follows with my estimation of the top two in bold.

1 Mayo, Galway, Kildare, Tipp

2 Kerry, Monaghan, Fermanagh, Cork

3 Tyrone, Roscommon, Meath, Clare

4 Dublin, Cavan, Donegal, Armagh

So QFs based on the groups would be some combination of Mayo, Galway, Kerry, Monaghan, Tyrone, Meath, Dublin, Donegal.

But if you include the provincial finalists then nothing changes as all the provincial finalists were in the top two divisions anyway.

Here are a list of provincial finalists since the 2009 season (prior to 2009 you had Div 1 A/B etc) that have come from outside the top two Divisions, and who they would have usurped in brackets.

2021 - None

2020 - Cork, Tipp (Laois, Clare)

2019 - None

2018 - Laois, Fermanagh (Meath, Cork)

2017 - None

2016 - Westmeath, Tipp (Meath, Derry)

2015 - Sligo (Laois)

2014 - None

2013 - London, Meath, Monaghan - What do you do if more than 3 teams from outside the top 2 make it ?

2012 - Clare, Sligo, (Galway, Armagh)

2011 - Wexford, Roscommon (Westmeath, Derry)

2010 - Limerick, Louth, Sligo, Roscommon - As 2013

2009 - Limerick, Antrim (Laois, Kildare)

So there is the chances of a bit of intrigue there, i.e Div 3 and 4 teams making the QF, but a lop sided provincial draw would be the main driver of that, a lop sided draw with all the good teams on one side will help them.

You can have a year long County Scene and give the Club Scene back their intercounty players. Here's how it's done:

Division 4 is played first in January, Febuary & March (9 teams)

1/ Antrim

2/ Louth

3/ Sligo

4/ Leitrim

5/ Carlow

6/ Waterford

7/ Wexford

8/ New York

9/ London

2nd week in Jan - Round 1

3rd week in Jan - Round 2

4th week in Jan - Round 3

1st week in Feb - Round 4

2nd week in Feb - Round 5

3rd week in Feb - Round 6

4th week in Feb - Round 7

1st week in Mar - Round 8

2nd week in Mar - Round 9

All teams get a 'holiday' to New York which can be used as an incentive for players in the Divsion 4 teams to join their county in the 4th Division. (GAA will need to put hands into their pockets for this one).

Another benifit is that there would be more interest in this Division 4 championship as all 'hard core' GAA fans would be interested in this, all counties in this league would take interest along with all the Division 3 counties. All Division 3 teams would be interested as the top team would get promoted into Division 3 straight after this division has ended.

Division 3 is played in March, April & May

1/ Promoted Team

2/ Derry

3/ Fermanagh

4/ Cavan

5/ Longford

6/ Offaly

7/ Limerick

8/ Tipperary

9/ Wicklow

3rd week in March - Round 1

4th week in March - Round 2

1st week in April - Round 3

2nd week in April - Round 4

3rd week in April - Round 5

4th week in April - Round 6

1st week in May - Round 7

2nd week in May - Round 8

3rd week in May - Round 9

Top team gets promoted. Bottom team gets relegated

Division 2 is played in May, June & July

1/ Promoted Team

2/ Mayo

3/ Meath

4/ Down

5/ Westmeath

6/ Kildare

7/ Clare

8/ Cork

9/ Laois

4th week in May - Round 1

1st week in June - Round 2

2nd week in June - Round 3

3rd week in June - Round 4

4th week in June - Round 5

1st week in July - Round 6

2nd week in July - Round 7

3rd week in July - Round 8

4th week in July - Round 9

Again top team gets promoted and the bottom team gets relegated

Division 1 is played in Aug, Sept & Oct

1/ Promoted Team

2/ Donegal

3/ Tyrone

4/ Armagh

5/ Monaghan

6/ Kerry

7/ Dublin

8/ Galway

9/ Roscommon

1st week in Aug - Round 1

2nd week in Aug - Round 2

3rd week in Aug - Round 3

4th week in Aug - Round 4

1st week in Sept - Round 5

2nd week in Sept - Round 6

3rd week in Sept - Round 7

4th week in Sept - Round 8

1st week in Oct - Round 9

4 teams progress to Semi Final

Semi Final on the following week

Top plays 4th

2nd plays 3rd

Final on the 3rd week of October.

With this system all intercounty teams get at least 8 games. All teams have the potential to win Sam. There is intercounty football for 10 months of the year and all clubs can get their players for 9 months of the year if the county doesn't make promotion that particular year. The teams getting promoted will be blooded so they will be up to speed straight away.

"Hard core" GAA fans will be interested in what is going on in their own county club competitions, not what Division 4 teams are up to in winter.

Administrators in GAA have one main concern, that is look after their own role and/or ability to access tickets for big games. Its all about protecting themselves.

The players come bottom of the pile in the GAA.

Only a player strike will make the administrators take note.

I think they would be interested in both and it would give the 'Hard Core' supporters back their club fixtures with a full compliment of players. I'd be interested in watching a top of the table clash in Feb after coming home managing the kids during the day especially if I though my county would be coming across them the next month.

The beaufiful thing about it is that if you get promoted you don't have to wait til next season to see how you have progressed. Uniquely a team can get promoted and relegated in the same season.