Changes in the GAA - super thread

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048989#Comment_118048989

I really hope that proposal B gets enough votes to get over the line. it is not perfect but it's a good step most of the way in the right direction IMHO. No reason too while it cannot be tweaked and improved in a couple of years once its up and running.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049218#Comment_118049218

If it is a success you could see the Senior Hurling championship going that way possibly

blowitupref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051288#Comment_118051288

Little chance of that happening, GAA HQ knows how important the Munster and Leinster provincial hurling championships are, the two finals are as popular and create as much interest as all games bar the Ail Ireland final.

Treble double

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051288#Comment_118051288

Don't go there, bringing in changes in hurling is a minefield. I just hope this proposal gets over the line in football.

The rumor is that Waterford are against proposal B, I predicted this and said that the hurling counties would probably vote against the new proposal in case it affected their preferred code in anyway.

I hope they don't have an impact on this getting over the line, but it will likely be tight, so they probably will.

Coillte_Bhoy

OTB twitter at lunchtime

legendary.xix

If Proposal B gets approved, there'll be an amendment next spring to get the 6th team in Division 1 included.

My humble suggestion:

Division 3 winner at home versus 6th from Division 1.

Division 4 winner at home versus 5th from Division 1.

2nd from Division 2 at home versus 3rd from Division 2. (The winner of this match promoted to Division 1.)

Top 4 from Division 1 and the Division 2 winner given byes to the quarter-finals.

The Tailteann Cup is too open. The bottom 2 in Division 3 and the bottom 2 in Division 4 should be excluded.

Teams 2nd to 5th in Division 3 and the Division 4 runner-up should receive a bye to Tailteann quarter-finals. 6th from Division 3, teams 3rd to 6th in Division 4 and New York should start out in the preliminary round.

Hopefully the Gaelic Football Championship structure can finally agreed and we can all get on with the game!

Fr Tod Umptious

Mayo are saying no to both options.

Looks like the reason for the no to B is that pesky sixth place in Div 1 issue.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/1022/1255277-mayo-to-vote-against-proposal-b-at-congress/

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056837#Comment_118056837

Honestly, if you're only good enough for 6th place in Division 1, you're unlikely to be competing for Sam at the business end. If you include the top 6 teams it lessons the competitiveness even more and you could have a couple of dead rubber games at the end of the league phase which is exactly what needs to be avoided.

Really don't understand Mayo or Horan's opposition to giving Division 2, 3 and 4 teams a chance to compete in the AI and a small bit of exposure perhaps in Croke Park. Mayo have had plenty of exposure and its time to give others a chance.

The All-Ireland has gone very stale in recent years and its time for a change. The Super 8s didn't bring the change people hoped for, just more unnecessary games.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118057085#Comment_118057085

He is not opposed to lower teams having a chance to compete, you are deliberately misrepresenting Mayo's position, much as i disagree with it

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118057859#Comment_118057859

He wants 6 instead of 5 division 1 teams competing for Sam. Inevitably that means fewer lower teams competing.

One of the main reasons for the change is to give an opportunity for lower profile counties a chance to compete at quarter final level.

So if there is another division 1 team competing, that means one of the lower teams lose out, probably the division 4 team.

The whole allure of Sam Maguire is, like the FA Cup, occasionally a smaller county can progress far and occasionally win. At least thats how it was in the past. But these days, those smaller counties have been squeezed out by the machines that are the bigger counties who have huge player and financial resourcs.

So in summary if you asked me whether I'd prefer to see a 6th place Mayo or a Division 4 team getting to the quarter final, I'd favour the Division 4 team, because otherwise how are you supposed to ever raise the profile and standard of these smaller counties? Yes they might get beaten by 20 points but it might spur something in the younger generation, that they can aspire to play in Croke Park and improve their standard.

I think every intercounty GAA player should play at least once in Croke Park and currently that doesn't happen. You have the same old faces year in year out in Croker.

That said, its all rearranging of deckchairs. Until the GAA do something about distributing development officers to the weaker counties properly, and a few other changes to level the playing field, format changes won't make much of a difference.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058423#Comment_118058423

One of the main reasons for the change is to give an opportunity for lower profile counties a chance to compete at quarter final level.

So if there is another division 1 team competing, that means one of the lower teams lose out, probably the division 4 team.

It's not as if lower profile teams have not had appearances in QFs though.

Since their inception of the QF we have seen Fermanagh, Wexford, London, Clare, Limerick, Tipp, Sligo, Westmeath appear, and that's just off the top of my head.

Plus the Div 4 team is highly unlikely to get to the QF as it is because they will be playing 2nd or 3rd in Div 2, and historically Div 4 teams rarely beat higher ranked teams in championship.

Fr Tod Umptious

I've always been a fan of changing the provinces to 8 team regions, North, South, East, West

Proposal A would have much more merit if it evened up the provinces into 8 as proposed, then played them as a knockout as happens now with the knocked out teams going into the qualifier, regional QF loser Rd1, SF loser Rd2, final loser Rd4.

Every team would start at a QF and have a second chance at the qualifiers, and keep the league as what it is today.

Alas it will not happen.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058423#Comment_118058423

But the 6th Division 1 team can be easily included?

Division 3 winner at home versus 6th from Division 1.

Division 4 winner at home versus 5th from Division 1.

2nd from Division 2 at home versus 3rd from Division 2. (The winner of this match promoted to Division 1.)

Top 4 from Division 1 and the Division 2 winner given byes to the quarter-finals.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058582#Comment_118058582

Having 4 permanent regions of 8 wouldn't be the worst idea but thats not what A was prosing, you would have different counties moving province each year, eg could have Antrim travelling to play in Connacht or Louth in Munster, ridiculous

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058900#Comment_118058900

Ya and theres talk that the proposal may be tweaked before the vote

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058900#Comment_118058900

There's a few preliminary games in there involving the lower division teams.

As I said, no matter how your organise things at the moment, its going to be the usual counties competing for Sam. There are so many predictable games in Gaelic football. All these format changes are papering over the cracks.

It would be great to see the likes of Leitrim or Sligo having a reasonable chance of winning Connacht and on a fairly regular basis, ie every 10 or 20 years. The same for Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Antrim, Westmeath, Laois, Offaly, etc in their provinces. That should be the aim of the GAA, to make lesser counties genuinely competitive. Its not easy but there should be a huge bias in terms of funding towards them, pooled sponsorship and maybe allow 3-4 good players from other counties play for them even if they don't have a direct connection. Anything to level the playing field, because its getting more uneven every year.

namloc1980

Donegal against it

https://twitter.com/IndoSport/status/1451589029665857538?t=hLpzDPGMJjeFSuyPnR4DLw&s=19

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058981#Comment_118058981

A lower division county wins Division 3 or 4. A home preliminary quarter-final will have those counties buzzing. Remember Laois beating Dublin in hurling a few years back? Des Cahill opened The Sunday Game calling it "The Sunday Game" of their lives!

They could help the Preliminary Qualifier by calling it something like; Wildcard Playoffs. People will relate more easily to it then in terms of what they are trying to achieve.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118058956#Comment_118058956

Of course the easiest thing to do would be to make four groups of eight, based on league standings (2 from Div 1, two from Div 2, two from Div 3, two from Div 4 in each group).

Have them play group QF, SF and F.

Group winners go to All Ireland QF, losers go through qualifiers as we have had since 2001.

But there is no point, because then there will be no provincial championship, and the sun will fail to rise the day we no longer have a provincial championship.

An Ciarraioch

Indeed, the major drawback with Proposal A is that to even up the provinces, you'd essentially be sending Carlow and Wexford to Munster, Wicklow or Longford to Connacht, and Fermanagh or Antrim to the same province, which does nothing for the competitiveness of the counties in question, or those championships, so it would essentially amount to rearranging the Titanic's deckchairs.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059368#Comment_118059368

But B is getting fair support and that downgrades the prov chsips, change is coming one way or another

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059540#Comment_118059540

Mayo have negotiated the qualifiers for a few years prior to the pandemic championships. The provincial championships have still held strong despite the qualifiers.

It'll be interesting to see how the provincial championships fair out separated from the All-Ireland structure. Kerry will still want to beat Cork in a Munster final. Mayo, Roscommon or Galway will want to get the better of the other for local bragging rights. I can't see any of the Ulster counties not wanting to be top dog in the toughest football provincial championship. Meath and Kildare will want to knock the Dubs off their perch against all the odds.

If Proposal B is approved, Leinster might want to consider a top tier round robin of 6. Top 2 into Leinster final. Bottom team relegated.

The remaining 5 teams could compete in the O'Byrne Cup round robin with the winner promoted.

StupidLikeAFox

I don't know why its such a sacred cow to have every county playing for Sam. There's no logical reason why the winners of div 4 and div 3 should get a crack at Sam but 6th (even 7th and 8th) in div 1 don't.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060103#Comment_118060103

No logic at all but it hasnt a hope of getting through otherwise

doc_17

If B goes through, teams will still get rankings in their provincial championship, except they might get more than one in a round robin system. Leitrim might have to play Mayo, Galway and Roscommon in the same year. And because it’s a league format, scoring difference could come into it, which would make those teams want to hammer the weaker teams.

Fr Tod Umptious

If plan B goes ahead I can see a situation where if a Div 1 team make a bad start to the league but could still recover and come 6th will pack it in knowing that next year they will have as better chance of getting to the Sam McGuire as top 3 team in Div 2, and get promoted.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060103#Comment_118060103

In truth there are about 20 counties who have never played for Sam but the Football cant seem to bring themselves to admit it like hurling has

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061236#Comment_118061236

If Plan B goes ahead, the 6th placed team will eventually be included. This will most likely be through a vote at congress next spring.

The inclusion of the Division 3 and 4 winners in debatable. In a couple of years it might be decided that the Tailteann Cup winner from the previous year will join the top 6 from Division 1 and the top 3 from Division 2 in the knockout stage.

Plan B can be the foundation on which future amendments build around for a more fair and balanced championship.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061317#Comment_118061317

If the idea is to give smaller teams something to play for them having the Div 4 champions in Sam is absolutely stupid. Better off in the Tailteann which they might win.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061236#Comment_118061236

A number of club championships including the Limerick hurling one use a similar format and so far no team has taken the risk of dropping down into the group with less qualifying spots