What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Um, I'd say that religion played a large part in the US invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc along with many of their military/diplomatic choices. Remember the invasion of Iraq with priests being deployed along with the military units? (beyond the normal commitments, but rather as part of Bush Jnr's agenda) Religion plays a major role within the mindset of many Americans, especially for those in the military, and there's a lot of lobbies in US politics with deep pockets, and fanatical religious viewpoints.

I'm not a big believer in Christianity as being a religion for peace. I don't think Islam is either. They've both been used to justify a wide range of abuses... and frankly the world would be a much better place if we could remove it entirely from peoples consciousnesses. (I was raised in a devout Christian family, and spent time studying in a seminary to be a priest, before I saw the light). Faith is a good thing.. formal religion is most definitely not. It's made some positive influences over time, but the negatives far outweigh the positives.

God. There's no requirement on needing to follow a religion in order to believe in God. A formal religion is there to control its followers, whether that's through the stories told in the manuscripts, or the rules made up by the clergy.

It’s embedded in American society in spite of them being a majority of European Christian settlers.

I honestly know very little about this, although I have known quite a few Americans talking about the powerful influence that Jews have in the US, so I could see there being something associated there. It's hard to tell sometimes with the US where the driving forces come from when it comes to policy, considering the range of lobbies, and the influence of the corporations.

The reason I think that Islam has the reputation it has among Western society is because it’s foreign to us. 

I suspect its more to do with the various conflicts between Christian Europe and the Islamic East, reinforced by the stark differences between what Western nations perceive as "civilised" behavior and what Islamic nations often engage in. Still, it's worth considering that the reputation Islam has is shared with Asian peoples. India and central Asia have experienced many Islamic invasions, and have their own biases against what's perceived as Islamic aggression.

I think Muslims are about as devout as Christians really with the strength of their faith proportionate to their social status. <<>>You could draw a similar sort of map between the urban and rural divide and their relationship to religious adherence and either conservative or liberal values in the same way as you could do in Ireland.

I agree in part, although I do think there are some real differences depending on where you are. I spent some time travelling through the M.East, including Iran, and I would say that those in the cities often mirror the feverish adherence that the rural people do. Now, you might consider Iran to be some extreme end of Islamic nations, but I've seen similar in Indonesia. In my experience of Islamic nations, there are a few nations, like Jordan where there's more openness about worship of Islam, and more freedom to do so, according to your own preferences. Less so, in most other places though. With Christian nations, these freedoms are common. With Islamic nations, these freedoms are rare.

When I was in Iran, it was part of a university tour thingy organised by my Chinese University... and while I met many highly educated Muslim lecturers, the impression was that they had the same conditioning that the educated Chinese lecturers had. For China, it's political ideological conditioning, for Iran, it's religious as well as political.

Personally, if I had the means to do it I’d kill two birds with the one stone by crop dusting the poppy fields in Afghanistan with kleen prep, it might lead to a decline in production, and it would have the double effect of reducing the popularity of the drugs produced from it in the West.

Personally, I'd just legalise all drugs with people being forced to do it in designated areas, and just allow those who want to do hard drugs to kill themselves. I'm not a big fan of this need by governments to "protect" citizens from themselves. As for Afghanistan, I genuinely believe they're only a threat to their neighbors if the west leaves them alone. The US brought Sept 11 on themselves through their decades of foreign interference. There was bound to be a blowback at some point... just as there's likely to be another one, due to the last 20 years of warmongering, and political bullying.

I just couldn’t see us agreeing to stick to our own countries, and i think by that same token it’s unrealistic and unreasonable to expect that multiculturalism wouldn’t operate in a reciprocal fashion. Seems particularly egregious if we were always on the take and said they were to stay where they are, we don’t want them, so to speak.

I've spent a lot of time in Asia, and to a lesser extent, in southern Africa, and I'd question just how much actual influence western culture has had on them, beyond the most superficial/surface of impressions (the influence of Christian missionaries would be greatest). Just as I'd wonder where all these westerners who are supposedly settling abroad, and being welcomed to stay long-term. Cause with the exception of a few countries like Thailand/Singapore, there is very little welcome to westerners wanting to live in foreign nations for extended periods (decades). Nor is there much desire for an exchange of culture except on the individual level.

For all that Japan was/is a close ally of the US (a somewhat iffy claim these days), and has been exposed to huge amounts of western tourism and business investment, it's remained very very Japanese, retaining a strong resistance to western influence. I'd say that S.Korea would be quite similar, although they've spent more effort in showing western ideals to garner more support, but again, they've retained strong Korean characteristics, pushing against the more important aspects of Western values or beliefs. These being the two Asian nations that have received the most attention from the US for over 50+ years, including tens of thousands of military personnel, and training provided. Both countries have very strong visas requirements, and limitations of who can gain citizenship (money being the easiest way, easier still than marriage)

I don't see this reciprocal fashion existing when it comes to multiculturalism. Unless someone wants to move to a western nation, that is.. and then, it's just plain dandy. Oh, sure, we have similar visa requirements and restrictions, but there is the expectation that multiculturalism is something to aspire to... something that is very much absent in most countries outside of Western nations.

What has culture got to do with it? if the parents culture is cool with permanently damaging a young child because they believe the Djinn is in the child, that culture needs to be dragged into the 21 st century forcibly.. no understanding, no negotiation, no cultural relavatism , full weight of the law . on an unrelated note I see the FGM parents are appealing their conviction.. uggh

edit... Martin Nolan is presiding too :(

If the defendent raises his culture as a defence or mitigation, it should be just laughed at and attract a maximum sentence. The gardai have to gather all the facts, I know..they can just record verbatim what the defendent says, and present it to the judge and jury.

Well, I've been there twice, first time as part of the University visit, and a second time as a holiday visiting some colleagues I'd met in China.

I quite liked Iran, and really enjoyed meeting most Iranians. There's a sophistication to many of them, which is rather understated, and yet, gives a very solid impression of intelligence. Besides, the women can be incredible looking.. especially that Persian look that tends to happen more often in the cities. Still, my experience of the countryside was very limited, only stopping at a few smaller towns while on trips between the cities.

Regarding Mosque attendance, I couldn't really say much. I went, due to invitations (and my own curiosity) to two mosques, and they were both more than full when I was there. It was an interesting experience, different to my experiences to mosques in other countries. I dunno. I didn't see much of the hard-line Islam, which I have seen elsewhere in the M.East/Africa. It seemed more "civilised" and polite. Still, I've spoken to others who have lived in Iran, who have told me about the harder side of Islam culture there, but I didn't see it myself.

As Jmreire says, though, their religion is present everywhere. Like I said earlier, they reminded me a lot of the Chinese, where the party always was present (invisible but there), and a definite requirement if someone wanted success at certain levels, and in Iran, allegiance to the religion would be the same. The Iranians I met were very smart people, knowledgeable about the world, but let's face it, few people get to choose how their culture evolved, and most people have to live within it.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we saw Iran return to a more westernised outlook after a few decades, IF they're left alone to find their way to it. Alas, I suspect that the US will find reasons for a showdown with them, and Iranians are a very proud people, so any aggression will push them to further embrace the culture and attitudes of the more serious and hard-line beliefs, simply so that they can survive. By remaining a leader in the Muslim world, they gain support to stand against Western aggression.

And yes, I do think most of what's directed at Iran is western aggression, and the world would be a better place if we left them alone. Either to destroy themselves, destroy Israel, or whatever. I honestly think it's past time for the west to wash its hands of the M.East, allowing them time to get past their religious period, and embrace the desire to improve their nations. Prosperity, and peace tends to get people questioning the power/influence of any religion.. or any government that holds the people down.