Gonna be a hard sell at that price when factor in the children’s hospital debacle.
Anyone who thought "this time it's different" is in for a very rude awakening in the coming weeks. We are structurally incapable of building public transit in this country. Even by the new purported 2034 completion date, they won't have laid a slab.
If it's real, it's entirely political. The design is almost ready to go to ABP and they have a pretty good procurement strategy. They need government approval before going to ABP now and again before signing the contracts in 2 and a half years.
The Mail on Sunday article author doesn't seem very well informed so it's hard to say what's true and what's false. It claims that the there are delays to "the two main Dublin rail projects" and goes on to talk about how DART+ is an electrified railway to Balbriggan and is delayed to 2032. Electrification of the line as far as Drogheda is just one aspect of the DART+ project. No mention of Maynooth or Hazelhatch. A 2032 delay for electrification of the Northern line section alone isn't unbelievable but I'm not sure I'd call it one of the two main rail projects in Dublin on its own. Irish Rail have been looking to prioritise the other parts of DART+ and are buying BEMUs in anticipation of a delay there.
It also says the NDP has "already been revised from a 2022-2027 timeline to 2022-2030" which is just not true. 2022-2027 was never an NDP timeline. The previous government launched the 2018-2027 NDP, the new government is launching a revised 2022-2030 NDP. Nothing remarkable about that.
It says the the total capital funding in this NDP went from €116bn to €164bn with new housing, roads and other infrastructure projects added. So it's not a lack of available funding.
Anyway, if a 2032 and 2034 finish date for all of DART+ and MetroLink is true then it would imply two things:
1. Virtually no large public transport projects started within the lifetime of this government despite the 2:1 commitment and road projects seemingly unaffected. Only like three BusConnects Core Bus Corridors will have started construction by the time of the next election.
2. No large public transport projects finished in the lifetime of the current NDP or the revised NDP (13 years) except for BusConnects and maybe some improvements to Cork suburban rail.
Which doesn't seem plausible. However, they're quoting a ministerial source and nobody from the government has contradicted it yet. Nobody from the opposition has said anything either, to be fair.
Get a Vaccine, Give a Vaccine
The indicative procurement approach for MetroLink
Wait for traffic hell to resume shortly... four billion is a pittance, it's just not a relevant amount of money to government, covid has shown what a pittance it is.... a huge amount of the spend goes back into government coffers anyway...
What possible reason is there for a delay. Money is not a problem, the NDP is being increased by 40%. Dublin needs this incredibly badly. Problem is there's no votes in Dublin infrasturcture. Nimbyism is rampant.
If we had the minutes or a transcript from that July cabinet meeting available right in front of us. It may give us a much more detailed explanation as to how the Metrolink being delayed was discussed at the meeting. Some in Government circles are not too happy with the level of spending going out at the moment. The Minister for Public Expenditure Michael McGrath has said today to This Week on RTÉ R1 that Budget 2022 will give some careful consideration as to what form of spending will prioritised after the impact of the Covid pandemic has left a huge deficit in the public finances. That would mean that every bit of spending particularly capital spending will have to be looked under close scruntiny over the next three weeks until the next Budget speech gets announced in the Dail in October. I don't know if Metrolink was to be prioritised for increased spending under Budget 2022. But if isn't then; that will tell a huge answer as how long it could be delayed from that point on. If that is the government's wish on that project; well damn you Covid you distruptive git. 🙁
I never really believed metrolink was going to happen but j was definitely hopeful it would. I think we'll see it being quietly dropped tbh.
Leo varadkar announced yester that DART+ is effectively back to the drawing board because he wants to get votes from someone who has horse stables on the route. Really laughable stuff. You wouldn't see it any other developed country.
A never ended cycle of talking, planning, drawing, baying to nimby's, redrawing, questioning the cost, cancellation of project. Rinse and repeat for the last 50 years.
We need to actually start building and stop talking.
Earlier reports had stated that the line-wide systems would be separate to the PPP. The PPP had been reported as for the rolling stock previously, everything bar the civil works getting rolled up into the PPP now. It's also interesting to see the split in the civil works contracts confirmed;
Three design and build contracts for the base infrastructure along the entire route (NEC4 ECC contract Option C)
i) M401: Southern Section
South of Charlemont Station to the M50 (excluding the viaduct crossing): approx. 11.4 km in tunnel
• Bored tunnel and portal
• Evacuation and intervention shafts
• All stations within the site boundaries and logistics associated with the works
ii) M402: Central Section
M50 to north of Dublin Airport Tunnel: approx. 4.5km (including 2.5km tunnel)
• M50 viaduct, surface route in retained cut, cut and cover and at-grade sections
• Preparation of the depot site and access roads
• Bored tunnels and portals; evacuation / intervention shafts
• All stations within the site boundaries and logistics associated with the works.
iii) M403: Northern Section
North of Dublin Airport Tunnel to Estuary: approx. 5.2km (no tunnels)
• All surface route structures and earthworks
• Preparation of the Estuary P+R site and access roads
• Surface stations within the site boundaries
This should reduce the risk so if one contract runs into problems, it doesn't apply across the whole project.
The PPP contract is to last 25 years with "Payment for the service will be via an annual unitary service payment". Given the scope of the PPP will be huge, this will mean that much of the costs will be spread over a quarter of a century.
Again, it think it's better to wait for better sources on a delay before getting too worked up.
I've just read a tweet from Senator Regina Doherty expressing her disappointment after she read the MOS article about the potential delay of Metrolink that was published earlier today. In the tweet below from an 98FM article; she says the delays to Metrolink from the MOS article are completely unacceptable is requesting an urgent meeting with the Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan & Dept officials for Oireachtas members to ask about the current status of Metrolink. Whether this will make any impact on the matter is another thing to discuss once it actually happens with the officials in the dept.
I was 11. I walked out of the RDS after visiting the CIE Dublin Rail Plan booth thinking Dublin was going to get an underground rail system.
I'll be getting my free bus pass in a few years.
I was looking forward to buying my first metro ticket but at the rate we are going I’ll get the fûcking thing for free on my pass as I’ll be bastarding well be retired by the time it’s built and ready... it’s such a fûcking grim kip of a place this country with some properly grimy and grim people taking our money to run the place.
its never going to change. One metro line.. at today’s guesstimate..29 years from agreeing to build it to using it.
I think you're being too optimistic there. Getting a ticket on your pass means you'd be alive to see it being opened
Truth, I’m being very optimistic. Must be the vitamin tablets.
A meeting with Ryan will have no impact. She needs to arrange a meeting with Michael McGrath at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform who is in charge of the National Development Plan. It's a cabinet decision but, ultimately, it's his plan. That's where the power lies these days. Ryan and all the ministers just beg him for money and spend the money he gives them.
Sleepy Ryan is away with the bats making power points about high speed trains from Donegal to Mayo for the GP conference. There's a 0% chance he'll have the ability to actually fight for any of the big transport projects if a spending review comes knocking for them.
He's been trying to get the Metro killed since he got into office. He won't be "fighting" for anything... except making sure no meaningful commuter infrastructure is built. It's quite fitting that in a few weeks time at the "relaunch" of the National Development Plan, our Green Party minister will be announcing the death of any railway investment in Dublin for the next two decades. Even Dart+, a commuter railway that doesn't even come with stations, looks like may be beyond our capability given Leo's tinkering. Though he has form too, he was Minister for Transport that killed Metro North and DART Underground last time round. CLOWN ISLAND.
I've generally defended Ryan, but in the coming weeks it looks like he'll be giving the go ahead for the M20 while kicking the Metro and Dart+ down the road; meanwhile his so-called political partners are blocking every attempt at cycle infrastructure in Dublin and other cities. I wonder will some of the grassroots Greens regret (narrowly) backing him last year. This is very disappointing.
I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the MOS story was planted to whip up some umbrage around the MetroLink and convince some Cabinet members who are on the fence. Equally plausible, of course, that it's just the trial balloon for a big delay or cancellation, certainly plenty of historical precedent there. Either way, the MOS is a rag, you're better off reading the back of a packet of Charmin to gain insight.
Ultimately, it's not for us to know or question the decisions of our enlightened Betters. Leo doth bestride the narrow world like Colossus, and we petty men walk under his huge legs and peep about.
There is no particular logic behind the delay being mooted. For now I don't believe the story but we'll get a better idea soon I guess.
More importantly, fg have announced there will be the money to fund welfare increases in the upcoming budget.
I personally think there should be a one euro charge to cross the canals... maybe even hike fuels in Dublin area etc to part pay for the Dart and Dublin metro... hike motor tax, as good as free motor tax for nearly all car owners, isnt going to get them out of their cars,into our non existent transport system
I've just had a google and all I can find is sh**tty second-rate news repeaters like FM104 and Extra.ie quoting the Mail on Sunday article, and people tweeting about it.
I'll wait until a reputable source clears the air but if Ryan doesn't push back on this like a locomotive he'll be politically dead forever and I will die a little inside at this banana republic I have to endure.
Honestly, would anyone be surprised? We seem hopelessly incapable of getting stuff done even compared to our European peers.
I do think the mail is talking out their usual orifice but I would also say we could easily see both dropped in favour of welfare, more redesigns (ashtown for example). At which point it'll be clear there's no intention to tackle transport issues in Ireland beyond bypasses and rural motorways.
It's ominous that Ryan hasn't come out of the traps quickly today to dispute the article. Trouble ahead. It'll be a disgrace if the Green Party delay this project even further, certainly will highlihgt that they really aren't serious about tackling public transport issues.
I just cannot understand why this government & many governments before them are so hesitant & cynical in building these massive rail projects in Dublin. If money is definitely not the issue here well what is the bloody problem with delaying Metrolink for another couple of years in our own capital city. The whole process surrounding this farce just boggles my mind to no end. Is our outdated planning process within this country the big issue with not building it or something? Is that the whole reason why a vital project like Metrolink is being put on the back burner for another few more years. Do these guys not understand that these rail projects can be so important within the next few years in reducing our carbon emissions in our own transport sector? If they're seen by the public eyes in making huge commitments in reducing the options to travel around Dublin by car, by bus or by cycling; building big rail projects like Metrolink need to be signalled as a big driver in cementing that level of commitment even further so that Ireland can make big steps to become more sustainable in tackling it's emissions within this sector.
Increasing rail capacity has a significant contribution to make to our own capital city over the next few years to reduce our carbon emissions & making our quality of life easier along with having other transport projects like BusConnects, Luas, Dart+ & cycling in place. They can all make the big difference in reducing our emissions. Light/Heavy Rail can make the difference at this point in carrying huge amounts of people with very little effort involved once it opens up for full operation. Sure; there can be some drawbacks; obviously the cost of building them can be eyewatering for some; but the significant difference is that it pays for itself multiple times over for a generation or more if large amounts of people living in Dublin are using them regularly.
That is the biggest benefit that I can observe when these projects come into existence. And little old Ireland does not want to take part in that benefit?
I would have initially thought that if Ireland is now a wealthy country; it should have no major issue in obtaining the level of finances required in getting these projects built for people who live & work in Dublin. The CSO have also pointed out very recently that our own population went over 5 million people not too long ago which has not been recorded since the impact of the potato famine. Now when is that level of increase in our population going to stop now that Covid is reducing it's grip in making people seriously ill around the globe because of the vaccines to innoculate them against getting this illness.
Couple that problem along with the big demands needed for housing on our own shores that is not projected to decrease over the next few years; that level of demand is going to go in one direction & in one direction only and that is upwards within several years or decades to come. And rail does not add into the equation of tackling that issue once those lovely new houses are all built & finished? Something big like delaying rail projects like Metrolink being left out of the equation just with a simple click of one's fingers does not add up here. And that problem continuing to be unaddressed is only going to get worse before it gets better.
Got back from London this evening, my partner will be working there for a while. Transport is world class and although I am not stupid enough to think we'll ever be near their level of coverage and efficiency, but I get off the plane and I can't even pay for a bus ticket with my phone or card (haven't been on a Dublin Bus in a long time). I think it will be years before this is a possibility.
If you go back 100s of pages on this thread I always said this would never be built. There simply isn't the political will or leadership in this joke of a country. I'm seriously fed up with things like this.
The Cork - Limerick motorway and Galway ring road will be built well before any Metro is ever built.
One thing i don't understand, and never have tbh. Why the hesitation to contuine on with the planning and other associated works when the public purse needs to be tightened. Surely its makes more sense to contuine the project up to being shovel ready than mothball them completely. Realistically how much money will be spent or saved if they stall the project at this stage. We're still talking a good few years before proper construction even begins.
Asked about the possible delay, a spokesperson for the Department of Transport said: “Minister Ryan is committed to providing high quality public transport in the greater Dublin area and across the country.
"The revised National Development Plan, including transport projects, is currently being finalised in consultation with Government colleagues and will be published in the coming weeks.”
No denial. So it's true.