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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I can only hope its indicative of an argument still ongoing in cabinet rather than a decision being made.


    It would be beyond nonsensical and there is simply no reason for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Honestly you would wonder why the Greens would stay in government if money isn't being spent on public transport projects.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You would wonder, though Ryan himself has done plenty to undermine Metrolink with his ridiculous crayon drawings of new routes so who knows.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Wtf is this? The neck.




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,307 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The decision here is mainly in two Departments headed by an FF TD and a Green TD.

    Fine Gael backbenchers have next to zero input on it and unsurprisingly would want to distance themselves from it



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Yeah but it's on the party's front page when their own ministers signed off on it back in July. Backbenchers have their position but it's hypocritical to present it as a party position by sending your spokesperson to criticise it after signing off on it in cabinet.

    FF backbench slowly awakens:

    And




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,449 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The Taoiseach has a number of press conferences in New York yesterday / today. Still waiting for a single journalist to ask a question on the reported delays.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Whats the reason behind the possabile delay? Is it lack of funds to progress, is the design behind or is it something else



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,054 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980




  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    According to TII, they're literally just waiting for Government approval in order to lodge to Railway Order.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    It’s spending money that they may not receive the credit for. It’s too long term a plan for them to give it much of a push. Unfortunately we have a government that will put their own parties ahead of the country. They want instant gratification for what they do not risk having someone else be in the photos when the ribbon is cut.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,054 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Snippet on Newstalk from Michael McGrath. He didn't deny the media reports and just said the NDP is being finalised and will be published in the coming weeks. Sounds like a delay in on the cards alright.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,449 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Cork Taoiseach and Minister for Public Expenditure, they won't be too bothered about a delay to Metrolink. Throw in Minister Ryan's attempts to reroute the project and you can sense serious trouble on the horizon. I actually wouldn't put it past Minister Ryan to bundle a route review of the project as part of the delay.

    Time for the Dublin Ministers and TD's to speak up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭atahuapla


    Too new to be permitted to post links here but Paul McCauliffe asked the Tànaiste about Metrolink today and he confirmed there has been "no Government decision taken to delay Metrolink nor are there any proposals to do so". Good news I guess.


    Youtube video URL code here if someone wants to post it below me: Z4vVz4ucDUk



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,610 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'm not sure where the claims being made a financial/budgetary issues are coming from but that wasn't in the MoS article (which still seems to be the only source on this). The article states "Government sources told the MoS the setbacks were revealed to ministers at a controversial cabinet meeting in July". So going by the MoS (again, the only source), somebody revealed "the setbacks to ministers, not them deciding to set the project back.

    I think people read the first two paragraphs of that article (from a newspaper which very few would consider a credible source for political insight), and made up their own narrative from there. The MoS article doesn't support the claims being made here.

    It also makes no sense that the Katherine Zappone thing would have kept this under wraps for so long. It was hardly the scandal of the century and it was out of the news for a couple of months before coming up again recently. There has been plenty of slow news days since for someone to run the story.

    The article quotes a minister who described it as a "shattering blow" with no info on when or in what context that comment was made (was it made back in July but nobody picked up on it, was it made recently before the MoS broke the story?).

    The whole thing makes no sense at all (both the MoS article and the claims being made here).



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    It doesn't make sense. I couldn't even get a spad to deny that the article was false for the last three days. FF and FG backbenchers couldn't get a straightforward denial from their ministers either to the point where they had to ask in the Dáil. They would have loved to deny the claims to their constituents right away. Multiple journalists also asked and they either got no response or they got vague statements that wouldn't deny it. It took three whole days for Ryan to address it directly. But he has finally said that the government hasn't made a decision to delay or defer it which is what people wanted to hear.

    I think it would be naive to think there was nothing going on and they just took the flak for no reason. Maybe it was kite flying. Maybe they're still arguing. Maybe they're just horrifically bad at comms. Anyway, they got a large negative response and that will do for now.

    Post edited by Peregrine on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,610 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Well I think it is fair to say that the MoS article is BS. Their claim that "the setbacks were revealed to ministers at a controversial cabinet meeting in July" suggests that there is something outside of government control which has pushed both Metrolink and DART+ back several years, which doesn't seem to be the case.

    There may be other issues going on in the background but these are likely to be within government control (i.e. making funding available), hence the lack of comment on the story. If there are budgetary issues, it is extremely unlikely that these would have simply pushed out both Metrolink and DART+ equally. It's also not an all or nothing situation. DART+ Coastal is obviously well behind already and it may be kicked out to the 2030s with other parts of DART+ continuing to be delivered. Basically, there may be some truth to it but not what the MoS has reported.

    Why would the government take the flak for cancelling/delaying projects now when they can just let them run for now and cancel/delay them later if they want? Much easier to let Metrolink go to ABP, which costs nothing. The RO will take more than a year, start the procurement and get prices, then it becomesmuch easiertocancel/delay if the costs are huge. I doubt Metrolink is a budgetary issue anyway, the payments for it will be going on to the 2050s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭MetroLinker


    As per Metrolink - "The next stage of that process requires the Government to provide approval of the preliminary business case for the scheme" and then they can apply for the Railway Order through ABP. My suspicion would be that the impact of COVID-19 has had a huge effect on the proposed business case, i.e. that it's not justifiable based on the numbers from Jan 2020 - Jan 2021. Reduced air traffic and the lockdowns/restrictions would have greatly impacted on the recordable numbers using public transport during this period. I'm sure a lot of the base assumptions are very difficult to manage in a model predicting future numbers and growth at this point.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,449 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    I am more than delighted to have been wrong on this. I'm delighted to see there was a fair bit of uproar over the article, positive to see public support on display.

    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1440641367428907010



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  • Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭VeryOwl


    Eamon Ryan didn't actually address the issue head on in his carefully worded statement.

    According to that transcript, you're looking at 24 months to go through planning and procurement, which will only get started at the earliest in Q2 2022, and what's now for some reason (according to TII, says Alan Farrell) an 8-year construction timeline, that's 2032. Shove in more delay tactics and pissing about, some more "reviews" of the project, and you can easily get to 2034. And that's if they find the bottle to actually fund it. Even if they were committed to public transport, which they aren't, by their own admission they've allowed all our major transit improvements - which were needed yesterday - to slide into the 2030/40's+.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,203 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Well hopefully the MOS article is just pure BS. But ultimately I can't see government handing over more than 3bn to CIE for DART+ back in the luas days they actually set up a parallel railway agency to prevent just that. CIE have never done anything this significant and I can't see the government allowing them to press ahead. I also can't see the government committing to fund metrolink.

    I think we will get some scaled back version of DART+ based on hybrid or battery electric trains with less significant electrification and engineering works at bridges and stations, excuse given will be evolution in battery technology and savings due to covid 19. and a BRT built on the airport route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,830 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    How about dart underground, from heuston to ssg and then onto swords via the airport initially...



  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    Until the first train is running I won't believe this is happening. I am not being negative. Just how it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭MetroLinker


    If I had to guess at one other issue for delaying the Metrolink - the Dart Underground initial design review is been run by Jacobs (who are also on the Metrolink). It could possibly be worth holding off the ABP submission for Metrolink if Dart Underground shows some major benefit with a different proposed route/alignment. I don't foresee any major change to the Metrolink route/stations but it could impact on some heights and stations alignment strategies.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,755 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That would

    a: Not satisfy the requirements for DU

    b: Not satisfy the requirements for Metrolink


    It would be a pointless bodge leaving something utterly substandard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    After mailing my locals (Paschal, Mary Lou, and Neasa Hourigan) I've so far gotten a stock "thanks for your mail" response from Paschal, nothing from MaryLou, and a short mail from Neasa to the effect of "We only heard about this at the weekend, here's what Eamonn had to say" plus a link to  https://neasahourigan.com/post/is-there-a-delay-to-metrolink/


    So nothing particularly new or insightful there



  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    This view is a bit backwards tbh.

    The entire reason DART Underground (Now called DART+ Tunnel) is being reviewed to decide on a different alignment is to reflect the updated alignment of Metrolink and the reconfigured arrangement of DART+ Overall.

    When first proposed to go from Spencer Dock to Heuston via, Parnell, SSG and Christchurch, there was no plan to reopen the Phoenix Park Tunnell to facilitate DART services. Now there is. When First proposed the Metro was only planned to connect to ONE future DART line at Drumcondra, now it's proposed to connect with two at Glasnevin and one at Tara Street, as well as possibly outer Commuter services at Tara.

    Even BusConnects is a new development, where instead of 3 BRT lines, we'll have 16 Core bus Corridors that fulfil the same purpose, we'll also have orbital bus movements that weren't considered as part of the development of DART Underground.

    The opposite of what you suggest is happening, Metrolink wont be change to facilitate DART Underground, DART+ Tunnel will and is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    Also email response from Paschal


    "I write to thank you for your recent email about the article published at the weekend about MetroLink and Dart + and what the current position actually is regarding both projects.

     

    I can confirm to you that there has been no Government decision to defer MetroLink. Preliminary business cases, in terms of indicative funding need have been submitted to the Department of Transport and are the subject of examination at present. For both Dart + and MetroLink, the Government is required, under the Public Spending Code, to make a formal decision on the funding parameters. The Minister for Transport, Eamon Ryan T.D. will seek Government approval for the above in the near future. Such a positive decision will then allow contracts to be signed on the Dart + fleet and enable Dart + West and MetroLink to proceed to the statutory planning system.

     

    I can confirm to you that the Government will be launching the revised National Capital Development Plan, incorporating a capital investment programme in public transport of approximately €35bn, up to 2030 prior to the Budget which I am due to announce on October 12th next.

     

    Once the revised National Capital Development Plan is launched by Government in the coming days, I will share those details with you and answer any questions or queries that you may have. Indeed, if there is anything arising from the information outlined above, please come back to me and I’ll endeavour to clarify any points or issue that you may have."


    So, again, not much of an update - restating the recently announced topline figure of 35bn for the upcoming NDP. Guess hold tight til Budget Day and see what the latest spin is...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,348 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The railway order is now not going to be ready until Q1 2022.

    Just a reminder that we were assured right up until summer that the railway order and the application would be in by now.

    It's being delayed bit by bit under the radar



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