That reads to me like the NDP will be published before the Budget, so in the next week or two. All should be revealed then.
October 4th is the current date for NDP launch but it hasn't been announced yet so it's subject to change.
NDP, then budget, then Luas Finglas consultation and then GDA Transport Strategy which has been delayed again.
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Metrolink and DART+ discussion on The Last Word on Today FM this evening. Will edit post if a definite time for the topic is announced.
edit on now.
edit 2: Louise O’Reilly and Dermot O’Leary. Might be worth skipping.
I think the Metrolink will be completed about 2029 or 2030. I think they won't be too bothered about a delay to the 2027 timeframe, but they certainly won't cancel the whole project or delay it too much longer than that. My gut feeling is that construction will start just nicely before the next election. A good story for them to put to the area that is covered by Metrolink at election team with a caveat for other areas such as the Southside (be it Sandyford or UCD or Rathfarnham/Knocklyon/Tallaght) that they can all benefit from Metrolink further down the line and this government can build it and deliver....bla bla bla.
That's just a gut feeling. I don't believe that this won't be built and I don't think that it will be delayed until 2034. I've always felt that once we get this first metro line built, then it will open up further lines.
Sinn Fein were quick to jump on the MOS article, as were local FF, FG and Greens. Everyone of us on here is right to be sceptical though because it's been failed promise after failed promise with various governments. The indignation of the likes of O'Reilly and Dessie Ellis was laughable.
I've started an NDP thread here.
Did you listen in? Any highlights?
I don't share the optimism but it is refreshing to hear and I hope you're right. You're definitely right about the psychological block being lifted after line 1 is built. As we seen with luas which lead to multiple suburban extensions being built.
The effect would be amplified with metro because it'll be the fastest, most frequent and reliable piece of PT we've ever gotten. Suburban TDs will be getting letters right left and centre demanding a metro for their township, like what them Swords folk have. If it does get built it probably won't be long till a Tallaght-Coolock line comes up for discussion.
I think Metrolink could be a game changer with multiple lines like Coolock-Tallaght like you said.
Just need to get this one over the line. Imagine Dublin having a metro with multiple lines.
I'm now hearing in the NTA that although DART+ is proceding as normal it looks like ML will be shelved for some time, perhaps not as late as the MOS suggests. Some fudge on giving preference to luas finglas, which is far from railway order stage anyway will be given.
The shelving won't necessarily be in the NDP but announced after.
Hearing from where?
They could use Eamon Ryan's upcoming "feasibility study" for his beloved Terenure Metro as the mask to hide the upcoming cancellation of Metro North, under the guise of wanting to do it "properly". If DELAY+ isn't outright patched, it will suffer death by salami slicing. We'll find out soon enough, I suppose.
I hope you're right and maybe doing the first will finally break the psychological barrier.
With a green party minister for transport, a significant green party presence in Government, and a climate crisis screaming at us to get cracking, we should all be jumping with excitement at the prospect of our car-dependent cities getting a revamp. An NDP should be exciting for the country. We shouldn't be sitting here dreading the announcement, watching yet another Irish government waste all of our time and money on consultants, PDFs and public hearings that amount to nothing. How many times can Platform-For-Change/Transport 21/Project 2040/etc. etc. be re-heated??
You have raised some good points here @VeryOwl about us having a GP government to get these projects built to help our environment. If other green parties based in Europe had looked at the current state of our own PT infrastructure at the moment; they would probably say to their Irish counterparts that our transport infrastructure is a complete joke under European standards when it's compared to other countries that have a green party presence in the EU.
These green parties based in other parts of the EU have much more advanced PT infrastructure for their regional & national government through the process of a normal functional democracy. They could have asked several major questions as to why urban areas of our country are so slow in building an advanced transport system in place for our own little backwater based near the edge of Europe. If the GP want to keep & sustain this green wave that they got during the previous round of European Parliament elections; they must be seen by the electorate in Dublin to build Metrolink as a clear priority for our own capital city. They just need to stop fidgeting & get it built now.
As we are in a period of severe climate change taking place right across the globe with no signs of it ever stopping if we don't do our bit to contribute to the cause; the Irish green party cannot ever be seen to take major risks to delay this project again for another couple of years or by not bothering to do it at all while people who live in areas of North Dublin that are served by Metrolink are crying out for it to be built now. We want to see our government & the NTA pull up their socks and get these major projects built as a matter of clear priority once these updates are provided for by being written in the upcoming revived NDP being launched next month.
I’ve mentioned this before, the Green Party in this country could be sued under trade descriptions.
Let them cut billions from their beloved road expenditure ! The road v rail spend here is a disgrace!
From irish times
The programme for government sets out a 2:1 ratio of PT spend versus road. If they are increasing the transport budget in the NDP as much as suggested then the roads budget will probably be similar to previously while the PT budget increases. There aren't actually that many large road projects left to do.
Ireland has one of the world's longest motorway networks per head of population and its not done growing yet. The funny thing is, 70% of the network was built in a 10 year frienzy that would shame China, proportionally speaking.
This blitzkrieg of road building is testament to how quickly and efficiently government can deliver multiple linear projects simultaneously. But for some reason, that I don't think anyone fully grasps, this can't be done for public transport in cities, we can only get reheated projects with new brochures every few years for things that should have been done the 1970s.
One can only conclude that the urban projects step on more toes and there's more opportunities for politicians to make hey with them, eg the varadkar stables. But there's a psychological element also, devalera-ism seems well ingrained in the public psychology. It'll be a generation before anti urban sentiment dies out
The motorway blitz in Ireland are glorified dual carriageways if you are comparing internationally. With the exception of the M50, M1, M7 east of Portlaoise, M4 east of Kinnegad and parts of the M11, Irish motorways are 2 lane with narrow hard shoulders, narrow central medians, low volume junctions that in many other counties would be defined as expressways. Much of the Irish motorway network is motorway for legal reasons only
Ireland still has quite a bit of road development to finish. With the exception of the existing railway network, the rest of the country will be accessed by bus or truck for goods. These places will still needed roads developed.
I see in todays business post matt cooper is advocating scraping the metro in favour if a dart link and building houses
At this point 2027 is not achievable. But when it was first announced in 2018 it most certainly was. We're talking 2030 now assuming that it goes ahead. Don't hold your breath until there's a boring machine in the ground
Incredible really, it's that type of narrowmindness that has us with a housing crisis
This guy has no clue, just an uninformed opinion piece.
He has regularly thrown accusations at the government of been 'too Dublin centric' when it comes to PT investment.
Depressing state of affairs that no media outlet comes out in support of Metrolink despite it been a gamechanger for Dublin transport.
Your last paragraph essential sums it up. We have lots of roads because predominantly it only inconvenienced farmers and landowners. The vocal urban dwellers are delighted they can travel with ease for their weekend away out of the big smoke.
The more people you inconvenience, the more moaners and complianers come out of the woodwork.
It also doesn't help, as per roadmasters above post, that the media still report metrolink as if its just about linking the city centre to the airport, its about way more than that and should be the stepping stone to more metro's and a world class interconnected public transport system.
There should be capability by the NTA & the government to build Metrolink & DART+ along with new housing for both pieces of infrastructure at the same time. Cooper and the Irish media are very much clueless as to how these projects can actually help the housing crisis to become more sustainable overtime. However; if the will is there by our government to build more housing along these critical pieces of infrastructure; you really have to think about what type of housing will be required to make that prospect more sustainable. If a developer was going along with the idea that urban sprawl could become more unsustainable while the country's housing stock from running out over the next few years; the developer in this case has to build high rise apartments than single dwellings to prevent urban sprawl from going out of control. The mainstream philosophy for building new housing in the GDA nowadays is that you have to build upwards rather than outwards. If the Metrolink along with the Metro South upgrade to Cherrywood gets built in a few years time; that can allow itself to use more lands for new housing to be built on it as it has the ability to serve 4 of Dublin's local authorities all along one single line. It will be regarded as brand new infrastructure which can allow property developers to then propose & build new housing on appropriately zoned lands whenever they see fit.
However the problem with building more new houses to make DART+ more attractive to developers on it's own merits is that much of the new services being proposed to be implemented by the NTA & IÉ are being placed on existing rail infrastructure that is currently being used by DART & Commuter rail services that's already in use over several decades. I would assume that it's going to be a very tough job for a developer to build new housing along these new expanded rail lines for the DART because much of the land that is there at the moment is being used for other purposes already.
Some developers have found limited opportunities to build new housing in places like Woodbrook in Shankill or to propose new housing builds at the IÉ Depot at Inchicore now that the LDA can use it for new housing. DART+ Tunnel can give itself the potential to do this sort of work as well; but can this type of trend with building new housing actually last a long time to add to DART+ on it's own when compared to the new potential that will be created by Metrolink? It is very difficult for me to answer that question in a clear & concise way because I am not disregarding one project over the other. We should never be afraid of the potential in how both projects can become critically important parts of solving the housing crisis in our own capital city. We should give ourselves the freedom to build new housing for both projects on appropriate lands when it's neccessary & cut out the petty sniping that prefers one project over the other.
Metrolink is never going to happen ever. Just like MetroNorth it was never real. Just an electioneering stunt. The Theater of the Absurd at Pelletstown today proved this.
Metro North had planning permission. It was literally about to begin construction. But the Recession hit and the government wasnt spending on anything. So it was shelved until the money came back.
You seem to be of the view that they would not be fooling us if it gets as far as planning permisson. I can assure that going as far as procuring planning permission was part of the elborate ruse to condition people to think a metro was real. It never was real. It will never be real.
I actually believe the original Metro North and Metro West would have been built were it not for the last recession. The government should not have cancelled those projects imo and should have ploughed ahead with them, but then again the country was royally up **** creek so easy to say that now.
Likewise, Covid has delayed Metrolink.
I actually believe it will be built this time. The government needs to be able to point to successes for the next general election and a huge project like this is one for the Greater Dublin area, just like big road projects for Mayo or Donegal would be for rural Ireland. It says to the public that we can deliver. I said it earlier in the thread before Ryan's comments that it would be around 2030 when it will be ready and I think that is a likely timeframe. They will have noted the uproar over it being delayed or cancelled and Sinn Fein hovering like sharks - don't get me started on them but still no harm to keep this shower on their toes.
I guess we'll know more in the coming weeks.
I don’t think SF give a toss about ML. ML being cancelled will give them something to gripe about for a day, but housing is what the next GE will be fought over (as things stand).
Housing may be linked to ML, but not for most people. And most people aren’t interested in getting behind a project that will deliver housing in the 2030s.