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Too many people would have to keep it a secret...

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    And now, on top of ignoring the very simple questions, you're resorting to insults. Again very very Trumpian.

    I will try to simplify it for you.

    I ask if you could provide a hypothetical (Which means not real) reason for why the government would want to fake the space program.

    It's a yes or no question, but you are not honest enough to just answer it.

    I think you agree that there is no rational reason for the government to do this.

    The second part in that question is to highlight the dishonest tactic being used by conspiracy theorists and yourself here in this thread.

    I asked that if you agree that there's no rational reason for why the government to fake the space program, would it then be fair for other people to then accuse you of saying the government wouldn't fake things?

    Again a simple question that you ignore. You ignore it because you know the correct answer undermines your position.

    It's obviously not fair to make an accusation like that.


    You therefore actually agree with we've been saying. You however didn't realise this at first, and now that my questions made that clear to you, you don't want to cop to being mistaken.


    It's the same for the second question.

    You falsely accused people here of believing the government was incapable of doing wrong or evil things.

    You could only point to one person you believed did this and weren't able to find any other examples.

    That person then clarified (though no clarification was needed) and told you you were wrong.

    So you have no examples of people claiming the government was incapable of doing wrong or evil things.

    Your claim therefore was a lie.

    And again, you don't want to admit to this, hence you ignore deflect and now insult.



    Can't make it any clearer to you. But I'm sure you'll ignore all this also and probably throw out another insult.

    At least don't be as dishonest to repeat the claim that people are arguing the government was incapable of doing wrong or evil things. You know that's not true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Do you believe a version of the flat earth theory? (as we are demanding answers of people)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    What's funny is that Operation Northwoods (again a conspiracy that was revealed by the government itself) was designed specifically not to kill any American citizens. It could have easily involved killing people and would have made the whole thing more convincing. Yet...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Anyone can cherry-pick history to validate any modern fictitious motive, it's tenuous, lazy stuff.

    Most on this forum will know the usual post-WW2/Cold war stuff about the US (Nwoods, Tonkien, MKultra, etc) because they are dredged every time as "evidence" of completely unrelated contrived conspiracies or the "motives" of completely different administrations in the modern era.

    It's the equivalent to someone "warning" that Germany could theoretically invade France again because they've done it, twice, in the past.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    For Christ sake, I'm not disputing any of that. Your reading of what I'm saying is literally what you're convicting me of.

    As I've said, ask me each conspiracy theory you have and I'll answer it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Even if this is true, it seems it didn't stay secret even with only SIX people having the info.

    Poor Mark Antomy has to explain how none of the thousands of people involved in faking the moon landings and every other element of space exploration, from China, the US, Europe, India, Russia etc. has come forward and admitted it was all nonsense, and despite all the evidence, the world is flat.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    You've literally just dismissed the post-WW2/Cold War Stuff as "meh". These are **** meaningful events.

    Iraq and Afghanistan alone is within our (young) lifetime. Iraq had ZERO chemical weapons and Bin Laden died a decade ago.

    58,000 Americans died over a literal false flag in Vietnam

    Your equivalent to Germany is a load of bollocks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No, you are missing my points entirely.

    This thread has so far mentioned the space program being fake, and 9/11 being an inside job. It comes across like you are suggesting that an event like 9/11 being an inside job was possible/plausible because you maintain that US administrations have no issue "killing their own citizens" because of certain Cold War events, correct or no?

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    ... And Bush had only been in power 8 months at the time of 9/11. That's pretty quick to organise and carry out the conspiracy.

    Does anyone really think Trump capable of thinking up the idea of a global pandemic? Or that Biden coming in to take over wouldn't notice the conspiracy and have buried Trump and GoP forever?

    Or that multiple opposing administrations have all come in and agreed to go along with the fake Nasa plans, yet nobody leaving power has then leaked the details? If it was fake would Trump not have been shouting it from the rooftops just to show that he knew something that others didn't?



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Right. A poster asked why the US government would want to kill 3,000 of it's own citizens, and you responded along the lines of suggesting that wouldn't be an issue for the US government, citing historical examples which had nothing to do with a secret plot to directly kill thousands of Americans as part of some inside job.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    The US government has no qualms sending men and women to die in meaningless wars, to this day.

    I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job, I merely said that the argument that the American government was unwilling to sacrifice American lives was a piss-poor argument.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭passatman86


    Denver airport - illuminati.... Is it true


    Patterson Bigfoot video - come on its bigfoot



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    No one presented this argument though.

    You've admitted this.


    Why respond to an argument no one made?



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    They did though, hence why you are pretending they didn't

    I'm not a 9/11 truther and I am pro-vaccine.

    Ye are used to dunking on stupid conspiracies but don't know how to handle someone rational like me.

    Take your time, I'm in no rush.

    My invitation to a live debate is still open. Keep Googling.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    How has sending people off to war got anything to do with the theory that a government would secretly try to kill thousands of their civilian citizens.

    The US military is, currently, voluntary. People choose to join, they are trained, they are sent to combat situations with clear instructions on what they are meant to be doing, the leaders hope that most of them come back alive. If the overall aim of the war is legitimate or not is a seperate issue, but the military are not being sent off with their government hoping that they get killed.

    A terrorist attack which kills thousands of civilians, and carried out allegedly by their own government, isn't in any way comparable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    No they didn't. You are lying outright now.

    It's been explained to you by the person themselves that your representation of their post is incorrect.

    I have made several points to you that all outline why your claim is false and dishonest.

    No one holds the position you are describing. You've admitted this by ignoring these points.


    No one claimed you where a truther or an antivaxxer either. You need to stop inventing positions that no one holds.


    And lol. Keep challenging people to debates man. It's really funny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Many countries have been involved in conflicts and sent people off to war, why does that systematically mean they would no qualms carrying out a treasonous inside plot to kill thousands of their own citizens?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Are you back to attempting to claim that when I said this it that I'm unaware of wars or something?


    > ... that nobody can explain why it would happen or any motivation for why a government would want to kill thousands of their own citizens in a fake terrorist attack.


    Is English your first language? You seem to be struggling with some basic comprehension of how language works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yup. That's the singular example he's using to claim that our argument is that the US government is unwilling to kill people.

    It's been explained to him several times. He'll just ignore you if you tell him that isn't your position either.

    It's no that he doesn't understand, he's being deliberately dishonest and evasive. Ironically much like the Trumpishs and 9/11 truthers.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Even the exaggerated character of General Melchet from Blackadder Goes Forth wasn't sending his troops over the top repeatedly for the purpose of killing them. It was just extreme incompetence and lack of any military strategy other than "maybe it will work this time round". The purpose of the action was to attack the enemy and gain ground, the result was mostly death.


    For the WTC attack, if carried out by the US government, what was the aim of the attack? You seem to be claiming they were just doing it for the fun of it because you believe that is what governments do.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    As I've said before...

    Ask me all the questions you want.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    I'm watching the Liverpool match, I'll be back after it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    What is the conspiracy theory you subscribe to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    There are individuals who are highly (read: overly) critical of the US gov/foreign policy, and as such they share similar world views to conspiracy theorists who are even more cynical of the US gov, so the two types often end up validating each other.

    We've had quite a few posters in here defending Holocaust deniers and 9/11 truthers and Covid deniers only because their world views overlap, not because they support their conspiracies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    Respect to the posters who are arguing sense here. I’ve been lurking for the past six pages (on mobile) but jaysus ye have some patience.


    I am PLEAING for the conspiracy lads to answer the questions posted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    I highlighted 3 for you a few posts back. You pretended to not understand them and ignored them. I then explained them out on complete detail for you and you ignored that also.

    You still persist in your false claim however.

    Why do you keep claiming that people are arguing that the government isn't capable of bad stuff?

    Why do you have to fall back on this strawman?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    Watergate started and ended with evidence. A real crime was committed. A money trail was followed. People with knowledge of the goings-on talked. It was broken by reviewing documents, interviewing people, and following evidence. It was not cracked by people watching YouTube videos and reading conspiracy websites from their gaming chairs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Clearly the latter is a more effective approach, as the number of vast conspiracies detected has gone through the roof in the internet age. Coincidence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    This is what the CT fanboys miss time and time again. Deliberately, I suspect. I don't believe politicians always tell the truth. I'm well aware that governments will happily shaft their populations in many different ways. The problem isn't that CT-sceptics hold governments on such a high pedestal, it's that conspiracy theorists haven't proved their case. At all. And they display very poor critical thinking in the process. If gullibility and poor reasoning bothers them, they should look a bit closer to home.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    No questions for the most rational person in the thread?

    I'm not surprised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yes. As I told you. I asked you several you ignored and pretended not to exist.

    Because you are now just outright lying about them, I will assume you're conceding them and that my description of why you are avoiding them is accurate.

    If my descrpition is not accurate, address the questions please.


    I asked you an additional question in that post that you also ignored.

    I asked why you were falling back to a strawman argument you know is a strawman.

    Again, I'm going to just assume your answer here as well as you're not going to respond to it.

    You are falling back to your silly strawman because you have no other rational point.

    If this is not the case, address the question please.


    Robinph and Dohnjoe have asked you several questions. could you address these now without the dishonest strawmen? Or are you going to pretend these questions don't exist either?



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    Pretend I'm not the most rational person in this thread.

    Ask your questions in a numbered format and I will answer them.

    1) Are we on Boards.ie

    2) Is today Monday?

    et cetera

    I'm getting bored of your "he's not an anti-space traveller I've run out of arguments".

    All you're doing is pretending to ask questions.

    And again, the live debate offer is still open to any of ye.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol you've stopped being any kind of coherent.

    You are again ignoring the questions you've been asked because you don't want to answer them.

    I have already outlined the questions in direct terms to you.

    Numbering them will only give you another opportunity to ignore them.


    1. Can you provide a rational hypothetical motive for why the US government would fake the entire space program? Yes or no?
    2. If Yes, what is it?
    3. If no, does this mean that you are arguing that the US government is incapable of acting in an underhanded way? Yes or no?
    4. Why do you keep claiming that people here are arguing that the US government are incapable of bad things?

    From the other posters:

    1. Can you provide a rational reason for why the US would fake 9/11 and kill their own people? Yes or no?
    2. If yes, what is it?
    3. What is the conspiracy theory you subscribe to?

    Watch now as you avoid these questions entirely.


    And no dude, no one is going to debate you on your youtube or whatever. On top of being pointless, you've demonstrated that you aren't very honest or rational.

    Case in point, we're still trying to get you to understand you're debating against a position that no one holds.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    1. I don't dispute the space programme. I love it.

    (4) I've literally quoted it in this thread. Someone claimed that the US was incapable of doing bad things because it was on their own citizens.


    From other posters...

    1. No I don't think 9/11 was faked. I've read The Great War for Civilisation.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Nobody claimed that the US was incapable of doing bad things to their own citizens.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    It literally isn't.


    As I asked previously, is English your first language as you seem to be repeatedly misunderstanding what you are reading?



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  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    You typed the words.

    I won't insult you by saying you don't understand English.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sorry. I went to the bother of numbering out all the questions for you.

    if you are going to demand to be spoonfed so completely, at least have the decency to go back and answer them all.

    Also I will have to ask you to read the questions more carefully as you seem to have misunderstood them.

    I was not asking if you dispute the space program. I asked you if you could hypothetically think of a reason for why it might be faked. It's a yes or no question.

    You make a similar misunderstanding with the question about 9/11.

    Try answering it again along with the other questions.


    Your answer to 4 is also factually incorrect. No one said that.

    Are you lying or did you just not understand what he said? Do you not understand what "motive" means and how it is different from "willingness"?


    I like how you are now so desperate for a point, you're telling robin what he actually believes.

    Hilarious.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Here are the words again, read the line all the way through to the end.

    >... nobody can explain why it would happen or any motivation for why a government would want to kill thousands of their own citizens in a fake terrorist attack.


    It does not say what you are claiming.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    History detects that the US government is very happy to sacrifice American lives. Your words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But you are misreading what he says completey.

    He is not denying this. He is asking what the motivation for killing people is.


    This is getting very sad now.

    Just cop to having made a mistake. There's no shame in it.

    Plenty of shame is acting like the average Trumpist though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Robinph, lets make this very clear for him.

    Do you believe that the US government or any government is capable of killing their own citizens if it suits them?



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's the whole point, create something that can't be proved because People are bought and paid for, they will see people's lives destroyed for money rather than tell the truth, they will rather watch a whistle-blowers life and that of his/her family destroyed for money or they themselves may have their lives threatened.

    Truth gets twisted and distorted all the time and the media fed lies and there is no real investigative journalists today that are not biased in one way or another and will rather tell a popular story than one of truth.

    If the media is constantly spewing one story every 30 mins on every radio station every day 365 days a year People will believe anything.

    We all know politicians will lie about anything to save their own ass and are only there to drag their heals making sure they get their nice big pension at the end.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    There you go 2d.

    Can't get any clearer than that.

    Please stop lying now.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Hadlee Helpful Computer


    Yes.

    58.000 died in Vietnam. Tens of thousands dead in Iraq alone.



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