An Post returning packages from outside the EU-See 1st post

Kimbot · 24-08-2021 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797222#Comment_117797222

Switzerland are EU in a manner so no charges would be due?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 24-08-2021 2:26pm

Still waiting on my contact lenses from daysoft that were ordered more than 3 weeks ago. Last week an post sent me a text message to pay the VAT on them, actually 8 days ago now, paid that day and still no lenses. I'm blind without them. What a farce.

Yggr of Asgard · 24-08-2021 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797432#Comment_117797432

Switzerland is not in the EU nor the EEA, they however are part of the single market!

However, it is required that Irish VAT is charged and paid on the import, therefore they require IOSS numbers if you paid the VAT directly to the Swiss company.

Otherwise Irish VAT is due at import.

Hippodrome Song Owl · 24-08-2021 3:09pm

For me the biggest issue is not knowing specifically what was wrong with the customs declaration - the UK company are now trying to follow it up but they say they cannot see what was wrong either. So they will just re-send the item, but what's the point if the same issue arises once An Post gets hold of it. An Post's communication with customers is beyond unacceptable, very unprofessional.

System · 24-08-2021 3:21pm

This discussion was created from comments split from: An Post Delays.

rf4c · 24-08-2021 3:21pm

I recently had one sent back to the UK.

An Post didn't even tell me. I had to find out from the sender.

However I'm not letting go of this.

I asked an Post "customer service" who promise a reply in two days but took five!

They claimed the parcel did not have the right tariff code (TARIC) and Customs sent it back.

I took Customs to task about it and they said this parcel never entered Customs - had it done, they would have contacted me for the missing details.

They said for sure, An Post did it! (and lied to me about doing so).

I brought it to the CEO of An Post David McRedmond (david.mcredmond@anpost.ie) who said, we've had a lot of difficulties ya di ya di ya

and it will be sorted soon.

I pointed out that this does nothing for the loss of my parcel and transport costs, so I'm making claims /complaints to the following:

ComReg (useless as they have been through the years)

The Small Claims Court

The International Postal Union

The EU Office of Consumer Affairs

Eamon Ryan (the responsible minister) if I can wake him up for long enough to listen1

Come on guys, the more the merrier, they'll do something if we swamp them!

whiterebel · 24-08-2021 3:34pm

Email sent to AN Post CEo

hammerheart · 24-08-2021 6:00pm

Like I said in the other thread, I had anticipated this happening to me and emailed customs before the parcel even got into Ireland.

'it's not in our remit' they said, and said An Post were the sole handler of the goods, so blame lies with them.

Then after following up, an An Post employee wrote back to me in the SAME EMAIL THREAD directly under the previous message saying it's a customs issue and to take it up with the sender!

I'll be chasing them for the €30 postage costs, as a matter of principle. Plus I still don't even know what was wrong as sender filled everything out correctly.

hammerheart · 24-08-2021 6:02pm

An Post need to hire some humans. Nothing as frustrating as a passive aggressive robot 'Paddy' fobbing you off for trying to get answers to a service you paid for and did not receive.

manna452121 · 24-08-2021 6:11pm

Email sent

24-08-2021 6:23pm

How much more would you all be willing to pay to get it looked at and have you contacted personally?

These are the extras UPS charge for, no prices listed.

https://www.ups.com/ie/en/shipping/zones-and-rates/additional.page#contentBlock-19

You are not An Post's customers - whoever sent it is - complain to them.

It is probably far cheaper to let the machine sorting it to send it back and let the sender figure out what is wrong, than paying an An Post worker to look at it, figure out what is wrong, contact the seller or receiver to get them to fix it, look at it again, potentially having to look at it or try contacting people several times to get it sorted.

rf4c · 24-08-2021 6:41pm

[Deleted User]

I'm totally at a loss to understand your point? Could you clarify please?

It doesn't matter whether it's cheaper to re-export mail - that's not the function of A Post.

Firstly Customs determine TARIC codes, but first they must have access to the parcels. It seems AN Post

is taking it on themselves to bypass Customs and re-export mail. Surely this is classed as interference with customers

mail which is a serious offence?

Can I assume you're not suggesting that An Post can lower their standards and then have us pay more to restore them?

Additionally, what is the reference to UPS meant to be?

In addition to all the above, I'm planning to make a serious objection to the Irish Times for giving An Post CEO an award

for businessman of the year for the huge "growth" in the company. It wasn't done through efficiency, it was done by lowering of standards!

MrCouperin · 24-08-2021 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797821#Comment_117797821

An Post told me that too, that Customs sent it back. Customs never got it, I'm pretty sure of that now. An Post sent your parcel back without Customs/Revenue ever seeing it, just like what happened with mine. It's utterly crazy. The only solution right now is to bypass An Post by using a courier. Presumably, that'll mean dealing with Customs directly if they do need these codes.

I've been thinking of sending a few emails, so I'll see what sort of responses I get.

SPDUB · 24-08-2021 8:12pm

"Like I said in the other thread, I had anticipated this happening to me and emailed customs before the parcel even got into Ireland.

'it's not in our remit' they said, and said An Post were the sole handler of the goods, so blame lies with them."

Customs is being a bit disingenuous there .

Seems to be making a distinction between customs directly employing people and An Post employing them to carry out rules laid down by customs

It's that type of splitting hairs that has lead to Tribunals having to be set up in the past

paddy19 · 24-08-2021 8:52pm

https://www.anpost.com/Commerce/Parcel-Solutions/International-Parcels/Find-a-TARIC-Commodity-code

This is EU driven where the old rule that less that €22 was exempt from duty and charges is gone since July 1st.

I'm guessing they are totally buried since now every parcel from outride the EU has to be checked for charges.

Can you imagine the volume?

I agree that An Post have done a crap job on communicating the new requirements since July 1st.

So broadly now everything that has a potential VAT/duty charge from outside the EU must be checked.

"When importing or exporting goods from outside the EU, you will need to assign a TARIC code to your customs declaration for the receiving customs body to process your goods correctly."

Bottom line:

It looks like TARIC codes are now mandatory so we need to make sure the sender includes the code or the shipment will probably be returned.

When An Post say it has been rejected by Customs, I think they mean they cannot calculate the charges required by Customs and so they return the shipment to their customer who is the sender.

It's a crap show, blame the plonkers in the EU for this bureaucratic madness.

The old <€22 made a lot of sense.

rf4c · 24-08-2021 9:14pm

paddy19

Your description of the TARIC code system is correct.

However let me add this:

On the An Post website, they refer to TARIC codes and advise customers to ensure senders get this bit right.

HOWEVER!!!!!!: the continue on to say, if the TARIC is incorrect it may result in severe delay, while An Post writes to you to have the

customs declaration amended, which is all they're entitled to do.

Determining TARIC codes is up to Customs, not An Post, so they must pass the mail to Customs to decide the codes.

Customs have claimed twice with me, that the parcels never even reached them!

An Post, under International law is tasked with the delivery of mail to the citizens of it's country.

If anybody interferes with the process of mail, they are liable to serious criminal charges.......including those put in charge of the mail in the first place!

Might even call the Guards into this!

SPDUB · 24-08-2021 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117798984#Comment_117798984

Really ?

When is it being set up ?

shocksy · 24-08-2021 10:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797502#Comment_117797502

I'm in a similar situation, ordered an item, was told vat was due about 8 or 9 days ago. I paid it the same day and still no sign of it in the post. If it wasn't so f*cking serious it would be funny at this stage. It's either customs who are acting the boll*x and still not releasing items that have been paid for, or else an post are not moving stuff quick enough. However, I'd hazard a guess they're both a fault and it's a massive clusterf*ck at this stage. DISASTER.

paddy19 · 24-08-2021 10:22pm

rf4c

"On the An Post website, they refer to TARIC codes and advise customers to ensure senders get this bit right.

HOWEVER!!!!!!: the continue on to say, if the TARIC is incorrect it may result in severe delay, while An Post writes to you to have the

customs declaration amended, which is all they're entitled to do."

From the same page:

"Please remember, it is your responsibility to find and use the correct TARIC code.

An Post does not accept responsibility for any incorrect TARIC codes used."

The link is to the commerce site, so not really applicable to consumers

but it does emphasise the requirement for the TARIC codes.

An Post acts as and agent for the Revenue like UPS, DPD.

The Revenue sets out the rules, the importing agent applies them.

A tiny amount of parcels ever get referred to the Revenue.

paddy19 · 24-08-2021 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799558#Comment_117799558

My understanding is that this is a delegated process where the Revenue give An Post the rules and rates.

An Post implement the process. Much like an employer collects PAYE.

It is very unlikely to have anything to do with Revenue.

Revenue will monitor the process to make sure An Post is following the rules

but I doubt if they are getting their hands dirty except for audits.

I don't imagine there is a customs person at the gate releasing each parcel.

SPDUB · 25-08-2021 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799472#Comment_117799472

So I see you're perfectly happy with customs trying to absolve themselves of any blame .

Good to know

MrCouperin · 25-08-2021 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799998#Comment_117799998

To be fair, the system causing this trouble was designed by An Post and is implemented by An Post. The TARIC codes might be mandatory, but what happens if they're missing is up to An Post, and right now they send the parcels back.

pleasant Co. · 25-08-2021 11:21am

I'm on day 3 of waiting for them to deliver a package I've paid the customs and an post fee on, post man has been and gone so won't be getting it today. The tracking shows no update since it was received by them.

25-08-2021 11:35am

We are another who seem to have fallen foul of this - my daughter was expecting a package from Japan - it arrived in Dublin Mail Centre on 18th August, and according to the tracking it was sorted within 4 minutes of arrival yet it has not been delivered a week later, so we now presume it has been returned to Japan.

I wouldn't mind only we have a copy of the Customs Declaration which the company uploads on their website, and it states very clearly (and in english!) what is in the package, the value, the postage charge etc.

She is very upset this morning.

Kimbot · 25-08-2021 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117801104#Comment_117801104

I had one from china sit in dublin mail centre for about 3-4 weeks at the start of july then just magically appeared in the door one day.

MrCouperin · 25-08-2021 12:35pm

I wrote to ComReg, who are apparently unable to help. Their advice was to make a formal complaint with An Post, so I'd suggest everyone else here should do that too. The more complaints they receive, the more likely they'll be to do something about it. It might be a good idea to mention that you're changing to a courier as well, remind them it's losing them business.

rf4c · 25-08-2021 2:47pm

As I thought, ComReg, the responsible Regulator is unable to help! However I think they should still receive your complaints, just in the same way as reporting crimes to the Garda, who can't be bothered to investigate. Its no immediate use, but down the line, someone will see just how bad thing are by the number of complaints.

For my part, I've contacted

ComReg

EU Consumer Affairs Office

International Postal Union

Eamonn Ryan, the responsible minister at minister.ryan@decc.gov.ie

An Post CEO David McRedmond at david.mcredmond@anpost.ie

I'm also arranging a civil court action for redress against An Post and

I'm writing to the Irish Times to object to them giving An Post CEO and award for businessman of they year for the

profitability and growth of An Post. (Brought about by the fact we were all shopping online as we were locked down, and by lowering

standards and costs to boost profits!).

The more of you who do the same and drown them in emails the better the effect.

Come On guys!

andrewfaulk · 25-08-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117802193#Comment_117802193

Your indignation, while admirable is mis-directed.. While regrettable, what is happening is essentially the outcome of the EU cracking down on China and Chinese businesses competing unfairly at the expense of EU national postal operators and EU business(and hence EU tax payers).. The onus is now on non-EU shippers to provide the correct information and comply with the regulations.. If this isn't done, An post are within their rights to reject or return the shipments and keep doing so until it's done right..

I fail to see how you think a civil court action against An Post would succeed, as it would fall at the first hurdle for lack of a legal contract between yourself and An Post.. You are not their customer, the Chinese Postal service is.. And their customer has been getting away with daylight robbery for years!

pleasant Co. · 25-08-2021 4:23pm

@Postvox is their twitter handle, I'm assuming they're just not responding to emails (as usual from my own experience).

dxhound2005 · 25-08-2021 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117802193#Comment_117802193

Well done for getting through to the International Postal Union. An organisation which doesn't exist.

rf4c · 25-08-2021 4:31pm

While your effort to respond to me is admirable, it is misdirected.

I have friends in both China and Japan and we know better than to use postal services to transit goods between us.

My shipments originate in the UK, I never mentioned China.

This destroys your arguement that "cheap postal services" are to blame. Believe me, the Royal Mail are anything but cheap!

Additionally, An Post returned a parcel to the UK which had been marked and declared faultlessly by a very competent shipper.

The incompetence lies with An Post who simply got it wrong and therefore assumes liablites at numerous levels.

Of course a civil court action would work. It did before. An Post are the custodians of my property and have a duty of care.

Whatever rights apply to the various parties, even on a human level it is outrageous for An Post to treat somebody else's property in

such a way and add the contempt of ignoring the recipient.

You spoke about "An Post being within their rights". You clearly haven't read EU Postal Services Directives or the charter of the International Postal Union,

or even An Post's own Customer Charter.

Finally, the little emotional outburst at the end of your post, clearly directed at China.....is there some prejudicial or racial issue behind it?

rf4c · 25-08-2021 4:37pm

dxhound 2005,

What a clever monkey you are! And what a useful contribution you make to this conversation.

In case you couldn't make the jump without directions I hold my hand up for my error as I'd meant to

refer to the Universal Postal Union of course!

Keep the trivial jibes coming, you're only ridiculing youself. Now go back out to the schoolyard until mummy comes!

dxhound2005 · 25-08-2021 5:06pm

What is the real name of the so called EU Consumer Affairs Office?

rf4c · 25-08-2021 5:10pm

I'm not in a quiz!

I've used it several times.

I suspect you have the internet!

Find it yourself!

andrewfaulk · 25-08-2021 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117802702#Comment_117802702

What does race have to do with anything? Its a fact that China is well known for anti-competitive business practices, and that Ali-express and similar B2C shippers have now become a target for the EU.. This is just the latest in a long line of Chinese business sectors being in the firing line(Steel springs to mind), normally anti-dumping duty or quotas would be the preferred course of action but that likely wouldn't work in this case..

It tells me a lot that your approach is to lash out and start throwing insults rather than listen to what people are telling you..

rf4c · 25-08-2021 5:24pm

Lash out????

That needs an explanation.

So also does your obsession with China!

As for listening to people, I'll happily listen when they make sense, but I still reserve the right to my own view.

andrewfaulk · 25-08-2021 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117802879#Comment_117802879

If accusing some one of racism when they have a diverging view on a foreign country isn’t lashing out, then what is?

The EU introduction has the new rules has everything to do with China..

you are entitled to your opinion of course, good look finding a lawyer to represent you in your little case… A basic understanding of incoterms will tell you how that one will go..

rf4c · 25-08-2021 5:55pm

1) I didn't lash out, I asked if your outburst had an agenda

2) The Eu's new rules hae everything to do with NON-EU!

3) "Little" implies the monetary value, not the morality.

I'm done trading insults with you, so stop interrupting, I'm writing a far more important document and can do without

the trolling! Contribute something meaningful or cease! Please!

kev765 · 26-08-2021 5:32pm

Experiencing this problem also with 6 items returned/returning to sender in Japan now.

Been in contact with a few of them trying to arrange re-delivery and having to painstakingly explain to them the reason for return (which I've just about managed to put together between communication with An Post and far more helpfully from here) which feels like it's already going beyond what should be needed of me to do for just ordering something online.

Now it looks like they are going to try to charge me to ship the items again even though filling out the customs declaration correctly was their responsibility and therefore the reason of return is their fault (in fairness I feel bad for them considering the root of this issue seems to be An Post either not communicating this change in customs out adequately beforehand and/or just handling it all badly but in any case I'm the one who has done the least wrong in all of this)

rf4c · 26-08-2021 6:40pm

Well said Kev765,

If An Post put a simple how to page showing us what instructions to give overseas sellers, the type of paperwork required and

how to establish the correct TARIC codes, maybe even an advice line or email address (that they actually answer),

I'm sure we'd all just get on with it, but not bothering a damn to help is unforgivable!

26-08-2021 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807429#Comment_117807429

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807093#Comment_117807093

A simple information site might help but customs aren't generally simple, and definitely aren't the responsibility of the receiving post office.

I had a poke around the Japan Post website and it has some detail but not much more than An Post.

https://www.anpost.com/customs

The below is for Ireland, your browser should translate it automatically.

The specific notes for Ireland are:

"Special conditions (1) Customs Declaration Form CN23 must accurately state the product name, price, gross weight and net weight for each type of content.

(2) The country name must be stated in the address."

https://www.post.japanpost.jp/cgi-kokusai/country.php?cid=105

https://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/question/61_en.html

I see plenty of stuff about how to send stuff, not much about what should be included to get Post through Japanese customs efficiently.

I get your frustration but it is misplaced. It is the responsibility of an exporter whether they are in the UK, Japan or Angola, to familiarise themselves with the requirements for exporting to the EU and Ireland specifically.

I had a quick look at La Poste in France too. It has similar or somewhat more information but again it is for exporting from France. For tarrif codes and rates it points to an EU website.

Educating the world on how to export to Ireland is not An Post's responsibility.

Hippodrome Song Owl · 26-08-2021 10:03pm

What is the reason though that a company is reporting that they ship hundreds of items a day to EU countries from the UK, and only An Post is sending stuff back. The company has checked to see what's wrong and they cannot see a problem with their customs declaration and An Post won't tell them what was wrong - they just send it back. Is there something very different required for an Irish customs declaration than for other EU countries?

dxhound2005 · 26-08-2021 10:17pm

If a parcel fails Customs clearance, it doesn't matter who the delivery company is. Delivery companies are just following Revenue rules, and the An Post site gives the link where people can learn what is needed.

https://revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/buying-of-goods-online-for-personal-use/buying-goods-from-outside-the-eu.aspx

pale rider · 26-08-2021 10:23pm

Totally agree, I had a small metal adapter bracket costing £7.49 on eBay from the Uk sent back by customs, there was a tracking number and that told me it was sorted on August 13.

I sent an email enquiry form to an post four days ok, nothing back.

I was caller 39 in line on the phone to customer services wanting to know where this tracked item was, it was a specialized bracket for a brake master cylinder, they told me it went to portLaois mail Centre and customs returned it as they did not accept the description or the value of the item.

I paid full price on eBay, I had the seller send me the Customs declaration and it was perfect.

An Post tracking system is not fit for purpose full stop and they could not care less, this item was returned wrongly and I have no way to discuss this direct with Customs.

the result is the uk supplier told me that’s it no more supplies to Southern Ireland.

how many machines are out of service waiting on a part to arrive from the UK.

rf4c · 26-08-2021 10:27pm

dxhound2005

you really are beginning to sound like the complaining whining aulone from the other side of the garden fence.

Apologists for An Post are not needed here and contribute nothing to the debate.

An Post has a status (and a responsibility) beyond that of a delivery company.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though you pointed out that an Post had been charged by Customs to adminstrate the tariff system!

The link you gave is next to useless.

An Post are ignoring customer service emails, refusing to offer explanations for their actions and refusing to cooperate.

I don't know what gave you the idea that commercial organisations have no obligations to their customers or standards?

26-08-2021 11:07pm

Have many of you actually received a notification of customs charges and then still had the item returned?

If you did receive a notification, how long did it take for you to get one?

Parcel tracking still showing as sorted, Dublin Mail Centre, 18 Aug but no request for customs charges either.

Wheety · 26-08-2021 11:33pm

I too had an item due from the UK.

29/07 the item was dispatched

30/07 left the UK

31/07 An Post had it

06/08 It was back in the UK with the tracking stating "Item leaving the UK"

I told the shop I hadn't received it an they sent another but didn't use tracked mail. I received this one within a few days.

Item was children's clothes and the customs declaration stated this, so no VAT due. The tracking for the first one is still stuck at "Item leaving the UK" on 06/08.

Touch Fuzzy Get Dizzy · 27-08-2021 1:02am

Has anyone got "we could not deliver your post. We will try to return it to the sender"

What happens next? I've never had something so vague on tracking before, it's clothing from Russia.

Just had a Buyee package sent back too, trying to explain what's happening is so stressful, they don't understand I had no opportunity to do anything, maybe I should get a friend to translate or something. I see parcels going back as 'rejected' but it's just automatic.

notahappycamper · 27-08-2021 6:23am

Anyone else have packages shipped via. the USPS with tracking saying they left Dublin Airport on 13/8/2021 for delivery? I haven’t received any customs notice or email.

Nodferatu · 27-08-2021 7:09am

I just had a package come from China worth €2. I got a text from An Post to pay customs of €3 on it. That was over a. Week ago and it hasn't been delivered yet neither

An Post returning packages from outside the EU-See 1st post

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