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An Post returning packages from outside the EU-See 1st post

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Comments



  • How much more would you all be willing to pay to get it looked at and have you contacted personally?

    These are the extras UPS charge for, no prices listed.

    You are not An Post's customers - whoever sent it is - complain to them.

    It is probably far cheaper to let the machine sorting it to send it back and let the sender figure out what is wrong, than paying an An Post worker to look at it, figure out what is wrong, contact the seller or receiver to get them to fix it, look at it again, potentially having to look at it or try contacting people several times to get it sorted.





  • pg633

    I'm totally at a loss to understand your point? Could you clarify please?

    It doesn't matter whether it's cheaper to re-export mail - that's not the function of A Post.

    Firstly Customs determine TARIC codes, but first they must have access to the parcels. It seems AN Post

    is taking it on themselves to bypass Customs and re-export mail. Surely this is classed as interference with customers

    mail which is a serious offence?

    Can I assume you're not suggesting that An Post can lower their standards and then have us pay more to restore them?

    Additionally, what is the reference to UPS meant to be?

    In addition to all the above, I'm planning to make a serious objection to the Irish Times for giving An Post CEO an award

    for businessman of the year for the huge "growth" in the company. It wasn't done through efficiency, it was done by lowering of standards!





  • An Post told me that too, that Customs sent it back. Customs never got it, I'm pretty sure of that now. An Post sent your parcel back without Customs/Revenue ever seeing it, just like what happened with mine. It's utterly crazy. The only solution right now is to bypass An Post by using a courier. Presumably, that'll mean dealing with Customs directly if they do need these codes.

    I've been thinking of sending a few emails, so I'll see what sort of responses I get.





  • "Like I said in the other thread, I had anticipated this happening to me and emailed customs before the parcel even got into Ireland.

    'it's not in our remit' they said, and said An Post were the sole handler of the goods, so blame lies with them."

    Customs is being a bit disingenuous there .

    Seems to be making a distinction between customs directly employing people and An Post employing them to carry out rules laid down by customs

    It's that type of splitting hairs that has lead to Tribunals having to be set up in the past





  • This is EU driven where the old rule that less that €22 was exempt from duty and charges is gone since July 1st.

    I'm guessing they are totally buried since now every parcel from outride the EU has to be checked for charges.

    Can you imagine the volume?

    I agree that An Post have done a crap job on communicating the new requirements since July 1st.

    So broadly now everything that has a potential VAT/duty charge from outside the EU must be checked.

    "When importing or exporting goods from outside the EU, you will need to assign a TARIC code to your customs declaration for the receiving customs body to process your goods correctly."

    Bottom line:

    It looks like TARIC codes are now mandatory so we need to make sure the sender includes the code or the shipment will probably be returned.

    When An Post say it has been rejected by Customs, I think they mean they cannot calculate the charges required by Customs and so they return the shipment to their customer who is the sender.

    It's a crap show, blame the plonkers in the EU for this bureaucratic madness.

    The old <€22 made a lot of sense.




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  • paddy19


    Your description of the TARIC code system is correct.

    However let me add this:

    On the An Post website, they refer to TARIC codes and advise customers to ensure senders get this bit right.

    HOWEVER!!!!!!: the continue on to say, if the TARIC is incorrect it may result in severe delay, while An Post writes to you to have the

    customs declaration amended, which is all they're entitled to do.

    Determining TARIC codes is up to Customs, not An Post, so they must pass the mail to Customs to decide the codes.

    Customs have claimed twice with me, that the parcels never even reached them!

    An Post, under International law is tasked with the delivery of mail to the citizens of it's country.

    If anybody interferes with the process of mail, they are liable to serious criminal charges.......including those put in charge of the mail in the first place!

    Might even call the Guards into this!









  • I'm in a similar situation, ordered an item, was told vat was due about 8 or 9 days ago. I paid it the same day and still no sign of it in the post. If it wasn't so f*cking serious it would be funny at this stage. It's either customs who are acting the boll*x and still not releasing items that have been paid for, or else an post are not moving stuff quick enough. However, I'd hazard a guess they're both a fault and it's a massive clusterf*ck at this stage. DISASTER.





  • rf4c

    "On the An Post website, they refer to TARIC codes and advise customers to ensure senders get this bit right.

    HOWEVER!!!!!!: the continue on to say, if the TARIC is incorrect it may result in severe delay, while An Post writes to you to have the

    customs declaration amended, which is all they're entitled to do."

    From the same page:

    "Please remember, it is your responsibility to find and use the correct TARIC code.

    An Post does not accept responsibility for any incorrect TARIC codes used."

    The link is to the commerce site, so not really applicable to consumers

    but it does emphasise the requirement for the TARIC codes.

    An Post acts as and agent for the Revenue like UPS, DPD.

    The Revenue sets out the rules, the importing agent applies them.

    A tiny amount of parcels ever get referred to the Revenue.





  • My understanding is that this is a delegated process where the Revenue give An Post the rules and rates.

    An Post implement the process. Much like an employer collects PAYE.

    It is very unlikely to have anything to do with Revenue.

    Revenue will monitor the process to make sure An Post is following the rules

    but I doubt if they are getting their hands dirty except for audits.

    I don't imagine there is a customs person at the gate releasing each parcel.



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  • So I see you're perfectly happy with customs trying to absolve themselves of any blame .

    Good to know





  • To be fair, the system causing this trouble was designed by An Post and is implemented by An Post. The TARIC codes might be mandatory, but what happens if they're missing is up to An Post, and right now they send the parcels back.





  • I'm on day 3 of waiting for them to deliver a package I've paid the customs and an post fee on, post man has been and gone so won't be getting it today. The tracking shows no update since it was received by them.





  • We are another who seem to have fallen foul of this - my daughter was expecting a package from Japan - it arrived in Dublin Mail Centre on 18th August, and according to the tracking it was sorted within 4 minutes of arrival yet it has not been delivered a week later, so we now presume it has been returned to Japan.

    I wouldn't mind only we have a copy of the Customs Declaration which the company uploads on their website, and it states very clearly (and in english!) what is in the package, the value, the postage charge etc.

    She is very upset this morning.





  • I had one from china sit in dublin mail centre for about 3-4 weeks at the start of july then just magically appeared in the door one day.





  • I wrote to ComReg, who are apparently unable to help. Their advice was to make a formal complaint with An Post, so I'd suggest everyone else here should do that too. The more complaints they receive, the more likely they'll be to do something about it. It might be a good idea to mention that you're changing to a courier as well, remind them it's losing them business.





  • As I thought, ComReg, the responsible Regulator is unable to help! However I think they should still receive your complaints, just in the same way as reporting crimes to the Garda, who can't be bothered to investigate. Its no immediate use, but down the line, someone will see just how bad thing are by the number of complaints.

    For my part, I've contacted

    ComReg

    EU Consumer Affairs Office

    International Postal Union

    Eamonn Ryan, the responsible minister at [email protected]

    An Post CEO David McRedmond at [email protected]

    I'm also arranging a civil court action for redress against An Post and

    I'm writing to the Irish Times to object to them giving An Post CEO and award for businessman of they year for the

    profitability and growth of An Post. (Brought about by the fact we were all shopping online as we were locked down, and by lowering

    standards and costs to boost profits!).

    The more of you who do the same and drown them in emails the better the effect.

    Come On guys!






  • Your indignation, while admirable is mis-directed.. While regrettable, what is happening is essentially the outcome of the EU cracking down on China and Chinese businesses competing unfairly at the expense of EU national postal operators and EU business(and hence EU tax payers).. The onus is now on non-EU shippers to provide the correct information and comply with the regulations.. If this isn't done, An post are within their rights to reject or return the shipments and keep doing so until it's done right..

    I fail to see how you think a civil court action against An Post would succeed, as it would fall at the first hurdle for lack of a legal contract between yourself and An Post.. You are not their customer, the Chinese Postal service is.. And their customer has been getting away with daylight robbery for years!





  • @Postvox is their twitter handle, I'm assuming they're just not responding to emails (as usual from my own experience).





  • Well done for getting through to the International Postal Union. An organisation which doesn't exist.



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  • While your effort to respond to me is admirable, it is misdirected.

    I have friends in both China and Japan and we know better than to use postal services to transit goods between us.

    My shipments originate in the UK, I never mentioned China.

    This destroys your arguement that "cheap postal services" are to blame. Believe me, the Royal Mail are anything but cheap!

    Additionally, An Post returned a parcel to the UK which had been marked and declared faultlessly by a very competent shipper.

    The incompetence lies with An Post who simply got it wrong and therefore assumes liablites at numerous levels.

    Of course a civil court action would work. It did before. An Post are the custodians of my property and have a duty of care.

    Whatever rights apply to the various parties, even on a human level it is outrageous for An Post to treat somebody else's property in

    such a way and add the contempt of ignoring the recipient.

    You spoke about "An Post being within their rights". You clearly haven't read EU Postal Services Directives or the charter of the International Postal Union,

    or even An Post's own Customer Charter.

    Finally, the little emotional outburst at the end of your post, clearly directed at China.....is there some prejudicial or racial issue behind it?





  • dxhound 2005,


    What a clever monkey you are! And what a useful contribution you make to this conversation.

    In case you couldn't make the jump without directions I hold my hand up for my error as I'd meant to

    refer to the Universal Postal Union of course!

    Keep the trivial jibes coming, you're only ridiculing youself. Now go back out to the schoolyard until mummy comes!





  • What is the real name of the so called EU Consumer Affairs Office?





  • I'm not in a quiz!

    I've used it several times.

    I suspect you have the internet!

    Find it yourself!






  • What does race have to do with anything? Its a fact that China is well known for anti-competitive business practices, and that Ali-express and similar B2C shippers have now become a target for the EU.. This is just the latest in a long line of Chinese business sectors being in the firing line(Steel springs to mind), normally anti-dumping duty or quotas would be the preferred course of action but that likely wouldn't work in this case..

    It tells me a lot that your approach is to lash out and start throwing insults rather than listen to what people are telling you..





  • Lash out????

    That needs an explanation.

    So also does your obsession with China!

    As for listening to people, I'll happily listen when they make sense, but I still reserve the right to my own view.





  • If accusing some one of racism when they have a diverging view on a foreign country isn’t lashing out, then what is?

    The EU introduction has the new rules has everything to do with China..

    you are entitled to your opinion of course, good look finding a lawyer to represent you in your little case… A basic understanding of incoterms will tell you how that one will go..





  • 1) I didn't lash out, I asked if your outburst had an agenda

    2) The Eu's new rules hae everything to do with NON-EU!

    3) "Little" implies the monetary value, not the morality.


    I'm done trading insults with you, so stop interrupting, I'm writing a far more important document and can do without

    the trolling! Contribute something meaningful or cease! Please!





  • Experiencing this problem also with 6 items returned/returning to sender in Japan now.

    Been in contact with a few of them trying to arrange re-delivery and having to painstakingly explain to them the reason for return (which I've just about managed to put together between communication with An Post and far more helpfully from here) which feels like it's already going beyond what should be needed of me to do for just ordering something online.

    Now it looks like they are going to try to charge me to ship the items again even though filling out the customs declaration correctly was their responsibility and therefore the reason of return is their fault (in fairness I feel bad for them considering the root of this issue seems to be An Post either not communicating this change in customs out adequately beforehand and/or just handling it all badly but in any case I'm the one who has done the least wrong in all of this)



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  • Well said Kev765,

    If An Post put a simple how to page showing us what instructions to give overseas sellers, the type of paperwork required and

    how to establish the correct TARIC codes, maybe even an advice line or email address (that they actually answer),

    I'm sure we'd all just get on with it, but not bothering a damn to help is unforgivable!



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