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Navan Rail Line

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Comments

  • #152
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    yannakis wrote: »
    Combined population is about double that to be frank.

    In the last census Ashbourne was ~15k, Ratoath ~12k, and Navan ~40k


    Not sure where you're getting those figures. Ratoath is 9.5K, Ashbourne is 12.6K and Navan is 30K as per the 2016 census.


  • #153
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    yannakis wrote: »
    Combined population is about double that to be frank.

    In the last census Ashbourne was ~15k, Ratoath ~12k, and Navan ~40k

    The three being referred to are Ashbourne, Ratoath and Trim.


  • #154
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    roadmaster wrote: »
    If the NX and 109x went in to the parkway it would help also

    Given that the M3 services are already crammed as they progress further along the line, all that would do would mean a lot more people wouldn’t be able to get on the trains.

    Some of you need to realise - the commuter rail network is at breaking point already at peak times. There isn’t any additional capacity until additional rolling stock and additional infrastructure is put in place.


  • #155
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Spurs are a terrible idea, they aare expensive, require additional rolling stock and it would just mean that each town has an inadequate service frequency. P&Rs and/or feeder buses are much more efficient and cost effective. Adding up the population of the three towns still gives a relatively small population, each is quite small in reality.

    I thought the desired frequency of trains from Clonsilla to the city centre was 8 trains an hour after the DART expansion program.
    I'm assuming that's 4 trains an hour to Maynooth, and 4 trains an hour to M3 Parkway.
    If a spur was built through Rathoath to Ashbourne, 2 trains an hour could continue from M3 Parkway to Ashbourne, and the other 2 trains an hour could continue from M3 Parkway to Navan.
    Ashbourne and Rathoath have a combined population of over 20, 000.
    I'd say 2 trains an hour to Navan, and 2 trains an hour to Ashbourne via Rathoath, are both adequate frequencies.


  • #156
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    roadmaster wrote: »
    If the NX and 109x went in to the parkway it would help also

    The NX doesn't need another stop, it's already slow enough getting up to Dublin.


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  • #157
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    ohographite wrote: »
    I thought the desired frequency of trains from Clonsilla to the city centre was 8 trains an hour after the DART expansion program.
    I'm assuming that's 4 trains an hour to Maynooth, and 4 trains an hour to M3 Parkway.
    If a spur was built through Rathoath to Ashbourne, 2 trains an hour could continue from M3 Parkway to Ashbourne, and the other 2 trains an hour could continue from M3 Parkway to Navan.
    Ashbourne and Rathoath have a combined population of over 20, 000.
    I'd say 2 trains an hour to Navan, and 2 trains an hour to Ashbourne via Rathoath, are both adequate frequencies.

    How many hundred million are you spending for two trains an hour? That can't be justified.

    Ashbourne has a direct motorway to Dublin and buses on it will be far more attractive in terms of frequency, journey time and comfort than a train that heads away from Dublin beforejjoining a congested line into the city where it gets swamped with passengers and your day is screwed if you miss your train.


  • #158
    machaseh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭machaseh


    ohographite wrote: »
    I thought the desired frequency of trains from Clonsilla to the city centre was 8 trains an hour after the DART expansion program.
    I'm assuming that's 4 trains an hour to Maynooth, and 4 trains an hour to M3 Parkway.
    If a spur was built through Rathoath to Ashbourne, 2 trains an hour could continue from M3 Parkway to Ashbourne, and the other 2 trains an hour could continue from M3 Parkway to Navan.
    Ashbourne and Rathoath have a combined population of over 20, 000.
    I'd say 2 trains an hour to Navan, and 2 trains an hour to Ashbourne via Rathoath, are both adequate frequencies.

    Much better to have 4 trains an hour to the much larger city of Navan. Ashbourne can be served with a much better bus service, preferably one run by dublin bus so that cheap leap card fares can be used.


  • #159
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    machaseh wrote: »
    Much better to have 4 trains an hour to the much larger city of Navan. Ashbourne can be served with a much better bus service, preferably one run by dublin bus so that cheap leap card fares can be used.

    Ah come on, Navan is not a city.

    Ashbourne and Ratoath have a pretty good bus services compared to Dunshaughlin or Navan. I think getting a rail-line to Navan is a dream, which could happen, but thinking of a spur line to Ashbourne or Trim is stretching it. :rolleyes:

    I think if money was to be thrown at this problem of services to Navan, it really should be a quality bus service.


  • #160
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    How many hundred million are you spending for two trains an hour? That can't be justified.

    Ashbourne has a direct motorway to Dublin and buses on it will be far more attractive in terms of frequency, journey time and comfort than a train that heads away from Dublin beforejjoining a congested line into the city where it gets swamped with passengers and your day is screwed if you miss your train.

    Under what I've suggested, the line into the city would not become more congested than what is already planned. The DART expansion program has 4 trains an hour to M3 Parkway. I'm suggesting that 2 of those can continue to Ashbourne via Rathoath, and the other 2 to Navan, so these conditions cannot cause more congestion between clonsilla and the city centre than the DART expansion program.
    Ashbourne and Rathoath have a combined population of 22,000 so it's not really far behind Navan's population of 30,000.


  • #161
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    machaseh wrote: »
    Much better to have 4 trains an hour to the much larger city of Navan. Ashbourne can be served with a much better bus service, preferably one run by dublin bus so that cheap leap card fares can be used.

    Drogheda is bigger than Navan, and I wouldn't think 4 trains an hour from Drogheda to Dublin is really necessary.


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  • #162
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    ohographite wrote: »
    Drogheda is bigger than Navan, and I wouldn't think 4 trains an hour from Drogheda to Dublin is really necessary.


    Isn't it going to be a ten minute frequency when they extend dart?


  • #163
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Isn't it going to be a ten minute frequency when they extend dart?

    Not all the way to Drogheda no.

    There will be DARTs terminating at different locations with a 10 minute frequency closer to Dublin.


  • #164
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Not all the way to Drogheda no.

    There will be DARTs terminating at different locations with a 10 minute frequency closer to Dublin.

    Where did you see this? Dart means frequent, stopper service so one would think that the Northern Line would see an improvement in the existing frequency.


  • #165
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Where did you see this? Dart means frequent, stopper service so one would think that the Northern Line would see an improvement in the existing frequency.

    It will have to be a mix of stopping services to somewhere like Malahide or maybe Donabate, and then a limited stop service to that location which would then serve the outer stations from there to Drogheda.

    The notion that places like Balbriggan and Drogheda are going to be served by a DART train that stops at every station from Connolly is nonsense as it would mean far longer journey times for anyone at outer suburban stations.

    There also still have to be paths for at least one Enterprise per hour and also Dundalk commuter services - there is no way that they and a 10 minute service to and from Drogheda are compatible.

    I am talking here about the all-day frequency here. Obviously at peak there will be more services, but it’s going to be challenging regardless.


  • #166
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    It will have to be a mix of stopping services to somewhere like Malahide or maybe Donabate, and then a limited stop service to that location which would then serve the outer stations from there to Drogheda.

    The notion that places like Balbriggan and Drogheda are going to be served by a DART train that stops at every station from Connolly is nonsense as it would mean far longer journey times for anyone at outer suburban stations.

    There also still have to be paths for at least one Enterprise per hour and also Dundalk commuter services - there is no way that they and a 10 minute service to and from Drogheda are compatible isn’t realistic.

    Well at the moment a station like Balbriggan has approx. 5 trains per hour, all about 10 - 15 mins apart stopping at all stations to Malahide (with 2/3 also stopping at Portmarnock and Clongriffin). Thereafter their average speed is virtually identical with stopping Dart services to Connolly. So there would be no change in journey time for those passengers.


  • #167
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Well at the moment a station like Balbriggan has approx. 5 trains per hour, all about 10 - 15 mins apart stopping at all stations to Malahide (with 2/3 also stopping at Portmarnock and Clongriffin). Thereafter their average speed is virtually identical with stopping Dart services to Connolly. So there would be no change in journey time for those passengers.

    The recent introduction of the 10-minute DART service means that the outer suburban trains have all been decelerated. For the railway to remain competitive journey time improvements need to be delivered. Matthews frequently outperform the railway. That needs to change.

    You also have to have trains starting at different points along the line to deliver the capacity at all the stations along it.

    Remember too, that in all likelihood the Howth branch will have to become a shuttle - that’s going to have capacity implications too.

    Balbriggan has typically one-two trains per hour off-peak and a maximum of four per hour at peak FYI.


  • #168
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    The recent introduction of the 10-minute DART service means that the outer suburban trains have all been decelerated. For the railway to remain competitive journey time improvements need to be delivered. Matthews frequently outperform the railway. That needs to change.

    You also have to have trains starting at different points along the line to deliver the capacity at all the stations along it.

    Remember too, that in all likelihood the Howth branch will have to become a shuttle - that’s going to have capacity implications too.

    Balbriggan has typically one-two trains per hour off-peak and a maximum of four per hour at peak FYI.

    Well if Matthews is faster then people can use that. Ultimately, the railway is now moving more people for a slightly longer journey time.

    If you take the 06.59 as the 07.00, there are 5 trains per hour (0700, 0712, 0721, 0737, 0754).


  • #169
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Well if Matthews is faster then people can use that. Ultimately, the railway is now moving more people for a slightly longer journey time.

    If you take the 06.59 as the 07.00, there are 5 trains per hour (0700, 0712, 0721, 0737, 0754).

    Well I think if you expect the service to be an all stations service from Drogheda every 10 mins all day you’re going to be disappointed.

    The service pattern won’t be that.

    It will be a mix of stoppers on the inner section of the line, and semi-fasts, Dundalks and Belfast on the outer.


  • #170
    machaseh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭machaseh


    For the northern line, what would make sense to me would be:

    3x per hour: Howth - Conolly all stops.
    3x-4x per hour: Drogheda - Howth Junction all stops, then non-stop to Conolly
    1x to 2x per hour: Belfast/Dundalk inter city train - Conolly
    From conolly trains can terminate at Gd Canal Dock, Bray or Greystones as convenient.

    People who want to go from north of howth junction to one of the smaller stations (such as raheny) can change at howth junction.

    Having a howth - Howth junction shuttle train seems exceedingly useless to me. Why would anyone use that if they can just use the 31 bus.

    Ideally more passing tracks should be constructed between howth junction and Conolly so that fast trains can overtake slow trains.


  • #171
    thomasj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭thomasj


    My guess as to what will happen is it will be a gradual change and Malahide DARTs will be extended to Skerries/Balbriggan

    we'll probably see a rebalancing of services with Howth going to Greystones and Skerries going to Bray with Drogheda/Dundalk staying as is in the short term.


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  • #172
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    What about a line Enfield - Trim - Navan - Drogheda
    Would allow the 'branch line' to go in two directions. Enfield is the same distance as Drogheda from Navan.


  • #173
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    We will ensure the extension of the Luas to Finglas is considered within that process, as well as extensions to Poolbeg, Bray and Lucan and the rail link into Navan.

    Taken from the FG 2020 Election Manifesto.


  • #174
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    wrote:
    Namedropping Finglas specifically there given their outside chance of retaining the seat there (Noel Rock).


  • #175
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    So basically, we will think about these projects some more...?


  • #176
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    AngryLips wrote: »
    So basically, we will think about these projects some more...?

    The important thing is that it's not been forgotten.


  • #177
    quidel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭quidel


    If there are any significant proposals or news from the Meath On Track meeting tonight in Navan, please post thanks.


  • #178
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    This meeting should be interesting, just to see who's there and what they are promising this time.

    So far, I've seen Regina Doherty (Fine Gael) leaflets mention the proposed rail line to Navan, and Darren O'Rourke (Sinn Féin) Posters supporting the proposed rail line to Navan & Peadar Tóibín (Aontú) is all over the Facebook page "Meath on Track"

    I wonder is it too toxic for Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fáil) to get involved, as it was Noel Dempsey's promises to open the tracks a few years ago!


  • #179
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1223190487177277440

    This is just nuts. I really don't know how people in Navan cope with that commute, they should be up in arms protesting about this rail line. And we all know they'll put another lane on the motorway before opening the rail line. Also does Dublin have the capacity to take in more trains? The whole system is a mess.


  • #180
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,539 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    MLMD mentioned this in the debate last night, unprompted. Well, unprompted by the moderators or other panelists - but probably prompted by realising Toibin was pushing it now!


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  • #181
    Stroke Politics
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Stroke Politics


    Peadars promised there’s going to be a train for everyone! As long as you’re Irish, Catholic, have two married parents and use the Billings Method....


  • #182
    thomasj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    How many hundred million are you spending for two trains an hour? That can't be justified.

    [Cough] WRC, [/cough]


  • #183
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    On the Navan rail line; I was wondering how feasible to build an elevated railway that would run down the middle and over the M3 motorway, at least part of the way? Would save a lot on CPOs.


  • #184
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,539 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    On the Navan rail line; I was wondering how feasible to build an elevated railway that would run down the middle and over the M3 motorway, at least part of the way? Would save a lot on CPOs.

    And lose all that saving in the huge engineering cost


  • #185
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    L1011 wrote: »
    And lose all that saving in the huge engineering cost

    <snip>


  • #186
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,539 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ncounties wrote: »
    <snip>

    Trolling on Twitter and *not here* I hope!


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  • #187
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    On the Navan rail line; I was wondering how feasible to build an elevated railway that would run down the middle and over the M3 motorway, at least part of the way? Would save a lot on CPOs.

    Might have been feasible when building the motorway, but maybe not as a retro fit, bridges etc.


  • #188
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    L1011 wrote: »
    And lose all that saving in the huge engineering cost
    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Might have been feasible when building the motorway, but maybe not as a retro fit, bridges etc.


    Fair enough, was just a query on my part. It's just with all those winding back roads and boreens as well as scattered bungalows everywhere, the route mightn't be that direct or straigforward.


  • #189
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    Fair enough, was just a query on my part. It's just with all those winding back roads and boreens as well as scattered bungalows everywhere, the route mightn't be that direct or straigforward.

    The existing line is still largely intact and visible from google maps


  • #190
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Last Stop wrote: »
    The existing line is still largely intact and visible from google maps

    If you try to follow the line on Google maps you will see multiple sections compromised around Navan and as you get further away, it disappears entirely in places. I don't think it is realistic to use the old alignment, not least because because it doesn't serve any population between Dunboyne and Navan.


  • #191
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    Fair enough, was just a query on my part. It's just with all those winding back roads and boreens as well as scattered bungalows everywhere, the route mightn't be that direct or straigforward.

    The plan is mostly to reinstate original line and much of this will parallel to the M3. Right next to it in fact.


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  • #192
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    If you try to follow the line on Google maps you will see multiple sections compromised around Navan and as you get further away, it disappears entirely in places. I don't think it is realistic to use the old alignment, not least because because it doesn't serve any population between Dunboyne and Navan.

    I did say largely. Where as you say it disappears entirely, it is largely through fields which should be easy to reinstate.
    Yes there will be some spots where either the alignment will have to change or there will be CPO but that’s part and parcel of a large infrastructure project.
    Crucially, the bridge over the Boyne is still intact at Bective which if reused save millions.
    The old alignment passes within 2.5km of Dunshaughlin and right through Kilmessan. What other towns or population hubs are there between Dunboyne and Navan??


  • #193
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Last Stop wrote: »
    I did say largely. Where as you say it disappears entirely, it is largely through fields which should be easy to reinstate.
    Yes there will be some spots where either the alignment will have to change or there will be CPO but that’s part and parcel of a large infrastructure project.
    Crucially, the bridge over the Boyne is still intact at Bective which if reused save millions.
    The old alignment passes within 2.5km of Dunshaughlin and right through Kilmessan. What other towns or population hubs are there between Dunboyne and Navan??

    What is crucial about a Victorian bridge which has been unmaintained for over half a century and isn't wide enough for two tracks? It will still cost millions to bring that bridge back into use and it would probably be cheaper just to build a new bridge. The old alignment crosses at least a dozen roads so for any sort of a decent service, there are a significant number of new bridges which would have to be built. Then of course there is the M3 itself and the dual carriageway road from M3 J8 into Navan which would have to be crossed which will require major structures. There must be a couple of hundred houses on or adjacent to the line who would all fight tooth and nail against it and farmers wont be happy with their lands being divided (which they are not along most of the route, despite the railway having once gone through)

    The landtake needed for all that would be required would be such that you may as well just buy a new alignment. Following the M3 avoids most of the problems, very few houses along it, minimal road crossings and those that there are are more manageable, farms already divided, avoid crossing the Boyne, etc. Cross to the northern side of the M3 after the toll and hug it until you get to Dunshaughlin where it could move more towards the town to serve it and its significant population. Follow the M3 again until Gallows Cross for a P&R. Then cut across to join the Drogheda line to take the existing line into Navan, with a station serving the Johnstown/Kentstown Road area on the way.


  • #194
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    What is crucial about a Victorian bridge which has been unmaintained for over half a century and isn't wide enough for two tracks? It will still cost millions to bring that bridge back into use and it would probably be cheaper just to build a new bridge.

    They said the exact same thing about the nine arches bridge on the Luas green line and when they went to inspect it, there wasn’t a thing wrong with it.
    The old alignment crosses at least a dozen roads so for any sort of a decent service, there are a significant number of new bridges which would have to be built. Then of course there is the M3 itself and the dual carriageway road from M3 J8 into Navan which would have to be crossed which will require major structures.
    Luckily they allowed for a tunnel under the M3 so isn’t it? Again saving millions
    There must be a couple of hundred houses on or adjacent to the line who would all fight tooth and nail against it and farmers wont be happy with their lands being divided (which they are not along most of the route, despite the railway having once gone through)

    You’re either exaggerating or contradicting your previous argument that the alignment doesn’t serve the population. Which is it??
    The landtake needed for all that would be required would be such that you may as well just buy a new alignment. Following the M3 avoids most of the problems, very few houses along it, minimal road crossings and those that there are are more manageable, farms already divided, avoid crossing the Boyne, etc. Cross to the northern side of the M3 after the toll and hug it until you get to Dunshaughlin where it could move more towards the town to serve it and its significant population. Follow the M3 again until Gallows Cross for a P&R. Then cut across to join the Drogheda line to take the existing line into Navan, with a station serving the Johnstown/Kentstown Road area on the way.

    Running a rail line beside a motorway would make the bridge crossing even more complex given the level differences and the existing structures. Add in the fact you clearly haven’t looked at the alignment parallel to the M3 as it cuts through a number of farm holdings, severs a number of roads, crosses a graveyard and swathes of forestry.

    Then you’ve ignored the fact that the Drogheda line is facing the wrong direction making a connection difficult and is single track including over the Boyne completely undermining your justification


  • #195
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Last Stop wrote: »
    They said the exact same thing about the nine arches bridge on the Luas green line and when they went to inspect it, there wasn’t a thing wrong with it.

    The nine arches bridge is wider and accommodates a narrower gauge light rail system.
    Luckily they allowed for a tunnel under the M3 so isn’t it? Again saving millions

    There is no tunnel where the M3 crosses the old line beside Navan. It also then needs to cross another dual carriageway less than 2km closer to Navan. Nothing luck about that.
    You’re either exaggerating or contradicting your previous argument that the alignment doesn’t serve the population. Which is it??

    There are many houses along the 30km route, the majority of which are a long way away from any potential station. It is questionable if there is sufficient population at any point on the old line east of Navan to justify stopping a train. Those houses would have trains wizzing past them but they would not be served by the line. These are a hindrance to the cause, not a help. There is no significant population along the way, just a small number of rural dwellers who will claim they are being sacrificed so Dubs can by cheaper houses in Navan.
    Running a rail line beside a motorway would make the bridge crossing even more complex given the level differences and the existing structures. Add in the fact you clearly haven’t looked at the alignment parallel to the M3 as it cuts through a number of farm holdings, severs a number of roads, crosses a graveyard and swathes of forestry.

    Then you’ve ignored the fact that the Drogheda line is facing the wrong direction making a connection difficult and is single track including over the Boyne completely undermining your justification
    My suggested route avoids motorway junctions (moving in towards Dunshaughlin at J6). Any road crossings are already grade separated by to the motorway, adjustments would be needed but far less work than eliminating all the at grade road crossings on the old alignment. Kilmessan and Drumree both have two road crossings in a short distance and multiple houses and buildings, you would probably have to build 1km of elevated track to through each which wouldn't go down well.

    How is the the Drogheda line is facing the wrong direction? It may be single track now but was once double and the full trackbed remains available to reinstate double. It also actually goes into Navan and to where the station was. The old alignment in the town is gone and ain't coming back, see here;

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.6457934,-6.684543,680m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


  • #196
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The nine arches bridge is wider and accommodates a narrower gauge light rail system.

    How do you know that it’s wider? You’re also now shifting the goalposts on the argument that the bridge wasn’t maintained.
    There is no tunnel where the M3 crosses the old line beside Navan. It also then needs to cross another dual carriageway less than 2km closer to Navan. Nothing luck about that.

    There clearly is some sort of structure under the road along the alignment.
    https://goo.gl/maps/Y3dSFvRLnNjWBS14A
    There are many houses along the 30km route, the majority of which are a long way away from any potential station. It is questionable if there is sufficient population at any point on the old line east of Navan to justify stopping a train. Those houses would have trains wizzing past them but they would not be served by the line. These are a hindrance to the cause, not a help. There is no significant population along the way, just a small number of rural dwellers who will claim they are being sacrificed so Dubs can by cheaper houses in Navan.

    Many or hundreds?? Of course there is bound to be houses near the route, yours is no different. What population does your route serve that wouldn’t be served by the old alignment?

    My suggested route avoids motorway junctions (moving in towards Dunshaughlin at J6). Any road crossings are already grade separated by to the motorway, adjustments would be needed but far less work than eliminating all the at grade road crossings on the old alignment. Kilmessan and Drumree both have two road crossings in a short distance and multiple houses and buildings, you would probably have to build 1km of elevated track to through each which wouldn't go down well.
    To build a railway line parallel to the motorway you’d either have to rebuild the existing motorway overbridges or push the alignment away from the motorway leading to land severance and a lot of wasted land between the railway and motorway.
    How is the the Drogheda line is facing the wrong direction? It may be single track now but was once double and the full trackbed remains available to reinstate double. It also actually goes into Navan and to where the station was. The old alignment in the town is gone and ain't coming back, see here;

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.6457934,-6.684543,680m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

    The Drogheda line leaves Navan in a NE direction and you want to connect to it from a SW direction. Hardly easy.

    How do you know the bridge is wide enough. If this bridge is wide enough, the one on the old alignment might be too?

    There’s no reason why a new station couldn’t be built just south of where the old alignment disappears in Navan. If the railway gets built, there’s going to be a lot of future growth in that direction anyway.


  • #197
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    Last Stop wrote: »
    There clearly is some sort of structure under the road along the alignment.
    https://goo.gl/maps/Y3dSFvRLnNjWBS14A

    I thought that was just a concrete barrier erected to block off the previous local access road, but you appear to be right! They seem to have built some manner of concrete box under the motorway, whether a water culvert or for a future railway, but then proceeded to unceremoniously fill it in.

    https://imgur.com/a/RRGajIa

    Edit: Better detail
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58482928&postcount=151


  • #198
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,206 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    505622.JPG

    The Boyne bridge is certainly sufficient for two tracks. It was built for two


  • #199
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    Movement again on this. Meath County Council sharing surveys related to the reopening on all social media platforms. Note, their Facebook page state that if the decision was made to progress, it could be operational by 2026:

    https://twitter.com/meathcoco/status/1357026235306692609?s=20


  • #200
    Agent_47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭Agent_47


    Feasibility report to be published in one month according to the Meath Chronicle.



  • #201
    MightyMunster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    I hope this is tied in with the current design phase of the electrification of the Dunboyne line.



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