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Are you concerned about the destruction of the natural world and climate change?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,081 ✭✭✭ jackboy


    I was responding to a post saying that this government was the most progressive ever for the environment and that is down to the Greens.


    Yes, FG and FF are worse but that doesn’t mean the Greens should get any credit. In one way they are worse because many young people interested in the environment are taken in by them and just go on about carbon rather than doing anything real for the environment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    it seems to be wall to wall floods and fires everday now on the news .My impression is it has been getting progressively worse year on year and yes it is a worry.I suspect we would all be willing to give up our foreign Hols ,even our cars if it meant saving our coastal homes but unfortunately this will only be when there is concrete evidence sea levels are affecting our communities and then it will be too late.I live close to Dublin Bay so pay attention to reports of sea level rises and the varying reports offer concern or comfort depending on which one you read.The potential range for Sea level rises is from a few cms to 50 metres in my lifetime and this uncertainty allows one to carry on as before.I know this is a selfish attitude but we will only get general support for radical action when the evidence is both undeniable and will have local adverse affects.The locals in Clontarf protested to reduce a sea wall which just shows how far we have to go to get people to buy into there is a new reality on the way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    All parties have failed us, I agree with that.

    It seems to be next to impossible to change anything in this country with all the NIMBY nonsense and powerful lobbies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭ Spudmonkey


    This is effectively the crux of of it. The vast majority of people are two focused on their day to day stuff to bother themselves with something which has no date. I can't understand how friends of mine with very young kids can be so oblivious to it. Like I said if I had them I think I'd be terrified, but then again if I did I'd probably be distracted so might not pay as much heed. Perhaps concerning ourselves with this is a luxury for those with time.

    I think were there a date we might act on it. The only thing I can think of which might compare was when SA was due to run out of water a few years back. They effectively gave people a date and said they'd have no water after say June 17th.... overnight people's behaviour changed and they ended up extending the date until luckily rain came. Its more of a change in behaviour in retrospect however rather than proactively doing it. We're not great at long term planning, as evidenced by..... well anything we do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk




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  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    You make a good point about bias but you cite an example that has nothing to do with climate change which is surprising.If you were able to demonstrate that the recent world wide outbreak of fires was statistically nothing out of the normal I would have been more inclined to accept your view.



  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    I thought your point was my concern was a function of recent bias and thats the "view" I was commenting on



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭ PokeHerKing


    100 years ago there was only a quarter of the world population there is now. 100 years ago there was no TV, no Internet. 100 years ago there was no commercial flight. Realistically 100 years ago places were burning and there wasn't anybody there to report it or give a $hit. That is an undeniable fact.

    I'm not a climate change denier but just because 21st century melancholic adults living in an age of media and information saturation believe they're living through the end of days doesn't make it so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    Having a party leader running around in a big engined diesel van, spending thousands on cosmetic procedures on himself telling everyone else they have to fund his vanity, Get rid of that donkey and come back to us



  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    I think we can justifiably be concerned by recent Floods & fires without being labelled Melancholic pessimists with regard to climate change.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭ Eoinbmw


    You have Branson sending people on a jolly to the edge of space for 15 mins using as much fuel as a full transatlantic flight !

    Go to Monaco on an F1 weekend id say the Carbon footprint is ridiculous!

    Yet we are being questioned about having feckin children or eating a steak?

    We are plebs and its futile to think we can change anything!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,462 ✭✭✭✭ Drumpot


    I think there’s kind of a paradoxical issue with discussing these bigger issues. if people don’t care or have concern, they show no interest in fixing a problem. But we all have our own issues to deal with and it can be daunting trying to factor in bigger issues that are not directly affecting us now. I am able to discuss this topic without getting overly stressed, I can see t he dangers abs not live my life in fear. But it seems align of people cannot even contemplate this without feeling scared so choose to ignore or dismiss it,


    I agree, most people are absorbed in our own lives and our own important issues. There’s only so much energy we can give to things and it’s not easy to then add concern for bigger issues like climate change, lack of resources or other major events that we individuals have little control over.

    But there is a falacy argument that you have to be somehow scared or petrified of something to address it. You see it in the covid threads a lot where people use the derogatory “curtain twitchers” and other nonsense language to imply that people who take a more cautious approach to covid. It’s not shot who is right or wrong, it’s about an inability to see the topic any other way then you are interpreting it.

    The issue is that people don’t just not want to think about the bigger potential issues, they don’t want to suffer anything (financial pr luxury penalties) to mitigate these issues. So they hide behind “I don’t want to think about things I can’t control” and “I don’t want to pay on any level for this thing I don’t want to think about either”.

    You can see how deluded people are on the topic by reading some posts. They’ve already decided it’s not important purely because it’s what they want to believe. They aren’t interested in discussing it, just making statements that that confirms their bias.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    Do you not agree the population of the world changing how they eat and produce food could help with biodiversity loss and climate change?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    How is this relevant? Should we not be concerned about the problems we are facing because of one mans actions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,838 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    The difficulty is that neither the plans nor the costs have been spelt out. To persuade the "intelligent" and others to back it, that must be clear along with how we plan to do it. You also might want to lay off on the right-thinking line as it tends to reflect back on you and it rarely changes any minds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭ PokeHerKing


    Maybe not but having zero perspective on the issue is borderline hysteria imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    How many things have you not bought because of the salesperson? Green party has filled itself with the wrong type of people, 30 years ago the likes of O Gorman and Smyth would've been preaching from a pulpit,



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭ Eoinbmw


    Maybe!

    The transportation of food across continents need to stop or be reduced i agree!

    I believe a country like Ireland could well manage for the most part with its current population!

    If you are suggesting for people to go vegan id like to hear how you think all that food will be farmed?

    Im 100% in favour of banning the use of palm oil and similar environmentally destructive ingredients in food being imported!



  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    Travel,Fuel ,food/packaging ,population are the areas we need to address if you agree with the climate change proposition.The Government battles will begin shortly when the good intentions,hollow promises are required to be transposed into serious societal change.Doubt the Greens will be able to stay in government much longer once the lobby groups start slowing things up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,825 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    Even if everyone in Ireland went back to living as they would have in the stone age, it wouldn't matter one whit. The populations of China and India are not going to follow suit. Are they going to? No, so you might as well stop with the pointless hand-wringing, China will happily build an entire coal fired power station for every wind turbine Ireland puts up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    we led the way on smoking bans and there is no reason to suspect the same cant be achieved on climate change action.Yes some will be slower to embrace change but the sooner we start the quicker the pressure will mount on those lagging behind to get on board.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    So the EU should do nothing at all? Do you think the EU should stop importing goods from China and thus stopping the need for said coal plants? And I believe China will make big changes before Ireland tbh. They know how to get **** done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,825 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    As I said before, I am not concerned about CO2, so I'm not the person to be asking that question of.

    You are really good at kidding yourself.

    "In 2020, China brought 38.4 gigawatts of new coal-fired power into operation, more than three times what was brought on line everywhere else." https://e360.yale.edu/features/despite-pledges-to-cut-emissions-china-goes-on-a-coal-spree

    "China's top planning authority has allowed shuttered coal mines to restart production as the country works to meet surging power demand while forging ahead with ambitious climate goals.

    Fifteen mines across China's northern regions ranging from Inner Mongolia to Shanxi have restarted operations, the National Development and Reform Commission said in a statement on Wednesday.

    Last week authorities announced the restart of another 38 mines in Inner Mongolia, bringing the total number brought back online to 53." https://phys.org/news/2021-08-china-restarts-coal-surging-power.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    This is why we need to stop trading with them. Kill their economy and produce what we need in Europe in a cleaner way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    We can't, Labour costs in Europe make production of a lot of items unviable , anyway trade agreements are signed and China own a huge proportion of Europe's debt



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    So pay the labour costs. Pay more for our goods.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    With what? Green policies would have half the population scrounging through bins because they can't grasp that a huge proportion of the population have very limited funds,



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    How do you think we can fix the earth with no sacrifices? How did we cope before China started flooding us with cheap crap in the 70s?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭ PokeHerKing


    Half of the world still stone each other to death based off small discrepancies in how they interpret a fairy tale. You're talking like humanity is way more enlightened then it is.

    We either survive for a few more hundred maybe thousand years before there'll be a collective will or we die out. Either way the earth will continue to rotate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,011 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    Oh I've no faith in humanity, I find it interesting though that people blame China yet want to continue outsourcing production to them so they can keep the status quo of cheap goods.



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