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Are you concerned about the destruction of the natural world and climate change?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    What do you mean by 'ridiculously long way'? Do you mean in terms of population growth, time, GDP?

    Some would argue that economic growth has been allowed to advance ridiculously uncontrolled to this point. The Amazon has decreased in size by 20% in the last 50 years.

    The rate at which we are consuming natural resources is already unsustainable. Part of the reason that the climate conversation is such an issue is that too many stakeholders consider anything which is likely to run out after their lifetime or professional interest as not being a concern.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,860 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian

    Humans don’t have tie tools to deal with this issue. Look at us here. Elected the Green Party into government and what have they done ?? Their leader was asleep in the Dail on a number of occasions, when he had a chance to speak at a critical time he mumbled on about growing lettuce on south facing windows. They are supporting an additional terminal to receive fracked gas, the dirtiest of fuels. They have been a disaster.

    next government likely be SF, completely untested in government and their financial proposals at election time are a sort of Harry Potter ish rambling.

    Imdividuals making changes is nice but essentially no addition to the overall problem. We need cohesive plans and there are no signs where they might come from.

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    We need cohesive plans and there are no signs where they might come from.

    That is the point I have made repeatedly, but where are they likely to come from before it becomes a necessity rather than trying to optimise the resources the planet has presented to us.

    The last 18 months have shown us just how many people don't want to follow the science, it really makes be very skeptical that anything worth while will be done. But people line up to denigrate Greta for pointing this out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    If you were in a position to influence this, what steps would you introduce to do so?

    I'm not at all saying you are wrong, but am interested in the alternatives. We are dealing with a society where people won't give up their car when 50% of journeys are less than a couple of miles and there are buses, trains, bikes available. Do you really think we can get to a place where we tell one of the wealthiest companies on the planet that we don't want a new phone every September but maybe every 5 years.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,867 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    I'm an Australian.

    The comment was premised on the fact that the Chinese don't give a sh​it and neither does India. An Indian owned mining company (Adani) just got going in Qld and plans to export 10M tonnes of coal to India a year for the next 3 decades. As for China:

    "China's provinces still planning over 100 GW of new coal projects - Greenpeace"

    The make noises about becoming CO2 zero by 2050, but I expect to see flying pigs doing mach 2.2 before then.

    So if India and China are not joining the party, everyone else on the planet might as well find a comfy chair, put their feet up and light a cigar and blow smoke rings.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,123 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    Or maybe Australia shouldn't be exporting coal to these places. And we shouldn't be buying Chinese goods. So countries that aren't India and China can do plenty to stop these countries producing so much Co2.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,867 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    Let's all just go back to neolithic living. After your fifth dead child in a row, you might start to have regrets. Anyone know how much Chinese made stuff is in a modern Hospital? I recently bought a vacuum cleaner made in Germany as I didn't want to buy Chinese. I recently bought a tool from a good German company. When it arrived, it became apparent it was made in China. What make and model of phone do you use, by the way?

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,123 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    Well you keep saying we shouldn't do anything because China, but you still want to buy cheap Chinese goods. I'm just making the point that it's a globalised world and a global problem. We're going back to Neolithic living anyway if we don't change the way we live pretty soon.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,867 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    Are you real? I just pointed out I have been trying to not buy Chinese goods. It's got nothing to do with concerns over CO2, but it's exactly the same thing you have been calling for ad nauseam.

    We are not going back to the neolithic. You seem to be in the nut-job climate catastrophist camp, whose bleatings and chicken littleing are near comic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,123 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    OK then we'll carry on with this capitalist consumer psycho behaviour as is and humanity will just be fine

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    Yeah, yeah, sure we are, and you're in the , eternal sunlit uplands and opportunity on the horizon head in sand camp. Did you see the videos on Twitter from NY last night?

    If you had a kid, and every time they were thirsty, they poured a full glass of milk, took a mouthful and poured the rest down the sink, would you tell them to stop if you still had 6 more litres in the fridge, or would you wait until you were down to the last one?

    The rate we are using resources is not sustainable, aside from the associated damage harvesting and burning these resources is doing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,664 ✭✭✭ tom1ie

    Wether you believe climate change is a natural cycle or man made is pretty much irrelevant.

    if the Antarctic ice sheets plus Greenland melts, sea level jumps by 76m.

    if that were to happen and we know temps are rising and glaciers are melting then we get something like this with 100’s of millions displaced aka climate refugees:

    do you honestly think that won’t have an effect on you or your kids?

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,867 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    No, there is a very big difference between natural/unnatural. I think what is happening currently, is indistinguishable from what the climate record and other research suggests to us happens to the climate and atmosphere just prior to the onset of a glacial period, which is a sub-set of the far longer lasting ice age.

    If a glacial period does kick-off, sea levels will fall, not rise, when the ice sheets start accumulating and reforming and the glaciers get their mojo back. Any melting of glaciers and the Greenland ice sheet may only be partial and temporary. In fact, the melting of part of the Greenland ice sheet, is thought by some to contribute/trigger the final shutting down of the Gulf stream, which kicks off a period of glaciation. It never gets around to melting completely.

    The anthropogenic global warming scaremongering is quite different - it peddles the idea that temperatures keep rising, the entirety of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets melt and then you get your big sea level rise.

    In other words, AGW will be so profound as to break the Earth out of it's current 3 million years long ice age and the Earth will become permanently warmer. Some clowns believe the heating wont stop and the Earth will become another Venus, but that is beyond risible, because if the Earth didn't have profound and very robust homeostatic climate temperature regulation mechanisms, life on Earth's goose would have been cooked billions of years ago and many times since, by climate and cosmic events that make the worst assessments of AGW look utterly insignificant in scale. Once again, the geological record suggests the Earth has gone through large violent swings in CO2 levels and global temperatures, and life on the planet has taken it all in it's stride.

    Not having ice caps is the normal state for the planet.

    If mankind did manage to stop the current ice age we are in, we would in fact be returning the Earth to it's more normal state - one where there are no ice caps, the global average temperature is about the same as Sydney's annual average and atmospheric CO2 levels are vastly higher than they currently are.

    I think humans, which would include my kids, could live perfectly well on a planet with no ice caps and the same conditions that saw plant life thrive so much, dinosaurs evolved to eat it. Photosynthesis - the basis of all life on Earth (that matters) - is at it's best at about 23°C, not the Earth's current chilly 16°C. It also thrives on far higher CO2 levels than we have now.

    I am not in the least worried about the climate changing. I personally see 3 out of the 4 main signs that I am aware of, that typically signify the end of an interglacial period and the return of the glaciers and ice sheets. The timing is also perfect, some say the next one is slightly overdue. I think climate scientists climatemongers™ have been selling these 3 climate indicators as anthropogenic in origin, when they are not.

    The 4 things that happen as a glacial period kicks off:

    1) Atmospheric CO2 levels rise considerably and sharply

    2) The global average temperature rises quickly and sharply

    3) The Gulf Stream slows and then stops

    4) Icebergs from Antarctica travel far further north than normal.

    Only 4 is currently missing.

    It's beyond weird that so-called climatemongers™ are trying to panic the world about changes in things which have changed before, in exactly the same rapid and dramatic way, at the onset of every previous glaciation period. They are selling these things as unnatural and because of mankind, when they have happened time and time again in the past when mankind couldn't possibly be blamed. Some of these climatemongers™ are even trying to spin a couple thousand year long slowing of the Gulf stream as being suddenly due to mankind, saying rubbish like we are making it more 'unstable' or we are accelerating the process. The climatemongers™ are gearing up to tell us that the next glacial period will have been caused by AGW! That's right, boys and girls, that 2km thick ice sheet that's currently crushing what used to be Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Scotland, was caused by global warming because of CO2 - 'yes Susie, it has miraculously happened at exactly the right time as suggested by the climate record, but that is just an incredible coincidence. This time it's completely different; it just looks the same and is entirely man's fault, trust me, I'm a climatemonger™, we have been predicting this since the start, that's why we changed the label from global warming to climate change.

    Whether the Earth soon gets permanently hotter or a glacial period gets underway, there will be a lot of climate refugees. This is inevitable at some point as the climate has never been static. This idea that the climate will forever be amicable if we just behave ourselves, is horseshi​t™

    Post edited by cnocbui on

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭ Banana Republic 1

    Dear Professor Pat Pending,

    Earth will end up like Venus eventually ! In about 4 billion years when the Sun is nearing the end of it life it will expand consuming Mercury and Venus. In the period of sun expansion Earth will most likely go too but in the interim it will be exactly like Venus.

    Some think places like Titan could at that stage become the new Earth as the Sun will be much closer, but 4 billion years from now is around the time the Andromeda Galaxy is due to merge with the Milky Way, so who knows, you certainly don’t.