Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Stheno · 06-07-2021 10:49AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he knew what day it was today.

It'll all come out later in the week when Government meet with hospitality industry on Thursday, latest reports are a memo for cabinet next Tuesday on the back of Thursdays meeting.

That's true enough

I'm just sick of the endless leaks

Furze99 · 06-07-2021 10:50AM

There's a lot of noise at the moment re bits of paper to prove vaccination etc. Watch this evaporate in the next week or so when the HSE / Government will be claiming that all those 60-69 now double dosed. That critical gap/ misstep has been the elephant in the room and the primary reason that indoor hospitality etc could not reopen this week.

is_that_so · 06-07-2021 10:51AM

Floppybits wrote: »

Does this mean that people who are not vaccinated will never be able to leave the country from now on?

No, negative PCR will still apply.

OwenM · 06-07-2021 10:52AM

JRant wrote: »

It's a perfect example of someone making decisions with absolutely no skin in the game and therefore doesn't really care about even short term implications nevermind medium to long term.

You assume he has no humanity and that is unfair.

He is weak and indecisive, no argument there. The most remarkable aspect of his whole career is how someone so indecisive managed to become leader of a country and why he wanted it if he won't use the power he has.

In France there is a saying

'To Govern is to choose'

but Micheal won't choose, he hides behind others in case he is wrong.

"Cometh the hour, cometh the (wrong) man"

Leo is quite happy to let Micheal be his mudguard here though, he will say he wasn't Taoiseach when this abdication of power and responsibility was happening.

stephenjmcd · 06-07-2021 10:53AM

Stheno wrote: »

That's true enough

I'm just sick of the endless leaks

Bit misleading from the times, he didn't actually mention indoor hospitality at all.

He was on about public transport full capacity in August, just not a big bang like the UK

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412322849604485126?s=20

facehugger99 · 06-07-2021 10:57AM

paw patrol wrote: »

Leo either tbh.
Leo is much younger than Martin and will eventually out grow the Dail - he is aiming for a future in some global organisation like EU/UN. He doesn't care either once he looks commanding for the betters in those organisations.
He also has some popularity in the world economic forum so he'll probably want a shot at that too.

I've said it before but the people making the decisions are not going to be the ones picking up the cheque. They will be well-insulated from the on-coming horror-show.

It is predominantly the youth of this country that have been sacrificed. I am very surprised at the passive manner in which they have rolled over while their futures have been mortgaged. There really has been a lack of leadership from student union leaders and other youth representative bodies - presumably all were too afraid of being labeled heartless granny-killers.

Ballynally · 06-07-2021 10:58AM

is_that_so wrote: »

No, negative PCR will still apply.

You will be able to fly out fr july 19 w proof of a negative pcr test or having had covid and recovered. And proof of vaccination. If you do a pcr test you get a result and you can use that. They are sending out proof of vaccination letters so they can use that in case the DCC isnt ready by july 19.
Not sure about those who've had Covid19 and recovered. A letter?

paw patrol · 06-07-2021 11:00AM

Stheno wrote: »

That's true enough

I'm just sick of the endless leaks

i think everybody no matter what said of the restrictions debate can agree on that. the leaking and floating of bad news in advance over the whole crisis has been a woeful part of the government strategy

is_that_so · 06-07-2021 11:00AM

Furze99 wrote: »

There's a lot of noise at the moment re bits of paper to prove vaccination etc. Watch this evaporate in the next week or so when the HSE / Government will be claiming that all those 60-69 now double dosed. That critical gap/ misstep has been the elephant in the room and the primary reason that indoor hospitality etc could not reopen this week.

The primary reason is that NPHET advised against it backed up by their huge projections and the government accepted that advice. The HSE had nothing to do with it. As for the 60-69, that is no longer an issue. We still have 30% of the adult population unvaccinated and if Delta is the hurricane/whirlwind/tsunami that's claimed then higher cases are very likely. So far that has not happened but much higher levels of say 1,000+ cases will probably put more in hospital. Even that 1,000 a day may be too high a guess as we are now not doing what could have precipitated this surge.

MOH · 06-07-2021 11:01AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I have to say I find the personal obsession of some posters here for Holohan and the other prominent NPHET members quite disturbing.

You know there's a "report post" button?
There also wasn't a single such post I could see in the 4 pages preceding your one

crossman47 wrote: »

You can disagree with their decisions but to say you despise them is ridiculous. they are people doing their best under constant pressure. I don't know what you work at but how would you like everything you do exposed to public scrutiny and ridicule by some people who don't understand a complex picture. I have nothing but sympathy for them.

It comes with the job, when you take the €187,000 per year and hold daily press conferences to influence public opinion and occasionally try to undermine the elected government, who spend the rest of the time using you for political cover.

paw patrol · 06-07-2021 11:01AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

I've said it before but the people making the decisions are not going to be the ones picking up the cheque. They will be well-insulated from the on-coming horror-show.

It is predominantly the youth of this country that have been sacrificed. I am very surprised at the passive manner in which they have rolled over while their futures have been mortgaged. There really has been a lack of leadership from student union leaders and other youth representative bodies - presumably all were too afraid of being labeled heartless granny-killers.

you did indeed - I remember it well.
I remember the flak you and others took for your "conspiracies" which have nearly with 100% accuracy been fulfilled.

and many of the detractors who said you (and others) were mad far right lunatics etc... are now cheerleading the very measures they said would never happen.
you couldn't make this up

paw patrol · 06-07-2021 11:04AM

is_that_so wrote: »

No, negative PCR will still apply.

you can leave ireland on an antigen only depends on country you are going too
but most (if not all) only require antigen - mean in europe

returning to Ireland needs a PCR.
Ireland is best in the class again :rolleyes:

hopefully the antigen will be brought in here - for one our tourism needs it

andrewbrowne · 06-07-2021 11:05AM

So will I eventually need to be vaccinated in order to do indoor activity, gyms, bars restaurants etc????

What exactly is the story or the expectations of this being the case?? I don't fancy doing a test of some sort everytime I go into an establishment or other

is_that_so · 06-07-2021 11:08AM

paw patrol wrote: »

you did indeed - I remember it well.
I remember the flak you and others took for your "conspiracies" which have nearly with 100% accuracy been fulfilled.

and many of the detractors who said you (and others) were mad far right lunatics etc... are now cheerleading the very measures they said would never happen.
you couldn't make this up

Is this the settling of accounts phase of COVID?! Who cares who said what! We've all been wrong at times and we've all changed opinions as circumstances evolved. Wearing your Captain Hindsight costume just means you're remembering things that are little use to us and we can't reverse any past actions.

is_that_so · 06-07-2021 11:12AM

andrewbrowne wrote: »

So will I eventually need to be vaccinated in order to do indoor activity, gyms, bars restaurants etc????

What exactly is the story or the expectations of this being the case?? I don't fancy doing a test of some sort everytime I go into an establishment or other

The gym is fine and the other restrictions will disappear over time. The test/cert idea is still under discussion but the hospitality sector really don't want to implement it at all. The expectations there is that it could take quite a while until they do open.

facehugger99 · 06-07-2021 11:13AM

paw patrol wrote: »

i think everybody no matter what said of the restrictions debate can agree on that. the leaking and floating of bad news in advance over the whole crisis has been a woeful part of the government strategy

It is wholly symptomatic of a Government afraid to lead and make decisions.

Everything has to be leaked in advance to ensure there is no mainstream or social-media backlash.

06-07-2021 11:19AM

Stheno wrote: »

August

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/indoor-dining-may-not-open-until-august-eamon-ryan-says-1.4612953

And on the 1 of August, it will be only 3 and a half weeks until the schools are due to start reopening and we can't jeopardize that🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Ballynally · 06-07-2021 11:19AM

paw patrol wrote: »

you can leave ireland on an antigen only depends on country you are going too
but most (if not all) only require antigen - mean t

I dont think you are correct about leaving Ireland w an antigen test despite it being accepted in the country of arrival.
You probably wont be able to get into the airport..
Caveat, travelling to the UK only might have different rules.
Ireland has suspended the common travel area rules atm, afaik.

paw patrol · 06-07-2021 11:22AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Is this the settling of accounts phase of COVID?!

yes , yes it is.

is_that_so wrote: »

Who cares who said what!

I care cos I was pilloried here and in my PM. and guess what i was right!

is_that_so wrote: »

We've all been wrong at times and we've all changed opinions as circumstances evolved. Wearing your Captain Hindsight costume just means you're remembering things that are little use to us and we can't reverse any past actions.

and in fairness to face hugger - he was spot on 99% of the time.

I wasn't much wrong either - go read my posts of last aug/sept when I spent time reading up on this on this and dismantled the entire process .

Captain Hindsight is good for the soul and points out that the state was always wrong at most decisions - feted by cheerleading monkeys and clowns.
And I'm angry at many things - a huge list I won't bother to list but saying the entire 15months of missed opportunities and a paused life for us all (but esp my family) all enabled by fearful gullible fools who gave up everything for a some pie in the sky protection by NPHET that never existed.

paw patrol · 06-07-2021 11:24AM

Ballynally wrote: »

I dont think you are correct about leaving Ireland w an antigen test despite it being accepted in the country of arrival.
You probably wont be able to get into the airport..

fella I know in spain at the min on an antigen only test
from dublin airport

I knew a fella who flew to swiss after having covid based soley on the sms from the HSE saying he had covid and they counted the 2 weeks.

06-07-2021 11:24AM

paw patrol wrote: »

I couldn't agree more.
It's amazing how we are now discussing the workability of the proposed system rather than the utter horrifying nature of a government imposed 2 tier society.
This is mandatory vaccination by proxy which is horrifying and the stuff of an authoritarian dystopia.

I have written to my TDs to gauge their opinion on this and when they will the want this vaccine pass lifted.

It's mad what a bit of hyped up fear and removal of services can do to people. People need to resist this robustly.
It's covid19 vaccine now, once the precedent is set it can be anything.

Your last sentence:

‘ it’s covid 19 vaccine now, once the precedent is set it can be anything.’

If that doesn’t set alarms bells ringing make people sit up and take notice.

Floppybits · 06-07-2021 11:30AM

is_that_so wrote: »

The primary reason is that NPHET advised against it backed up by their huge projections and the government accepted that advice. The HSE had nothing to do with it. As for the 60-69, that is no longer an issue. We still have 30% of the adult population unvaccinated and if Delta is the hurricane/whirlwind/tsunami that's claimed then higher cases are very likely. So far that has not happened but much higher levels of say 1,000+ cases will probably put more in hospital. Even that 1,000 a day may be too high a guess as we are now not doing what could have precipitated this surge.

So we hear today that 50% of the adult population are now fully vaccinated. I would assume that would cover all the at risk groups? If this is the case they we should see cases increasing but not a huge increase in hospitalisations if the vaccines are working. Wasn't the problem with NPHET's modelling is that they did not take vaccinations into account?

is_that_so · 06-07-2021 11:36AM

paw patrol wrote: »

yes , yes it is.

I care cos I was pilloried here and in my PM. and guess what i was right!

and in fairness to face hugger - he was spot on 99% of the time.

I wasn't much wrong either - go read my posts of last aug/sept when I spent time reading up on this on this and dismantled the entire process .

Captain Hindsight is good for the soul and points out that the state was always wrong at most decisions - feted by cheerleading monkeys and clowns.
And I'm angry at many things - a huge list I won't bother to list but saying the entire 15months of missed opportunities and a paused life for us all (but esp my family) all enabled by fearful gullible fools who gave up everything for a some pie in the sky protection by NPHET that never existed.

You seem to be more keen to be right, an illness of our internet times. People robustly challenging your posts is not a sign that you were pilloried, more like evidence of a persecution complex. I'd also add that name calling add nothing to civil and rational debate.

I've had my fair share of such challenges but you deal with them and even ignore some of them. After all these are digital people who have no meaning whatsoever in our lives.

Sobit1964 · 06-07-2021 11:41AM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/05/sajid-javid-has-finally-broken-taboo-admitted-lockdowns-cost/

Sajid Javid has finally broken the taboo and admitted that lockdowns cost lives, too

Any possibility of an open and honest debate around the health costs of lockdown has been crushed by the ferocious obsession with a singular focus on Covid-19.All else has been ignored and, despite our best efforts, we have made very little progress in forcing the non-Covid health crisis on to the main agenda.

One of the main issues with discussing the non-Covid health crisis is that we just won’t know the full damage, or anywhere near it, for years to come. In comparison to the relentless barrage of daily Covid statistics, we never stood a chance at properly keeping it in the public spotlight.

Lockdowns and restrictions have severe consequences. It's clear that Javid understands that. I’ve never been more hopeful that we’ve turned a corner. We need to fully acknowledge the crisis, openly discuss it and tackle it with the same vigour with which we’ve battled Covid.

Finally, some well overdue discussion of the very real costs of lockdown and restrictions, the sort of discussion thats been roundly attacked by several posters on this thread. The UK is leading Europe on getting real and on with life, Ireland is at the back of the pack.

gozunda · 06-07-2021 11:41AM

Floppybits wrote: »

So we hear today that 50% of the adult population are now fully vaccinated. I would assume that would cover all the at risk groups? If this is the case they we should see cases increasing but not a huge increase in hospitalisations if the vaccines are working. Wasn't the problem with NPHET's modelling is that they did not take vaccinations into account?

The model did indeed take vaccinations into account - but didn't include projections the extra vaccines which were to be made available younger cohorts over coming months.

As to the risk groups there's still a significant cohort in the 69_50 who received AZ who have yet to receive their second dose. Estimate is that they will be completed in the next couple of weeks.

is_that_so · 06-07-2021 11:42AM

Floppybits wrote: »

So we hear today that 50% of the adult population are now fully vaccinated. I would assume that would cover all the at risk groups? If this is the case they we should see cases increasing but not a huge increase in hospitalisations if the vaccines are working. Wasn't the problem with NPHET's modelling is that they did not take vaccinations into account?

At risk should be but not quite enough to protect everyone else. Well the say they considered it. Their hypothesis, as I understand it, is that these huge predictions, if they come true will lead to more hospital cases eventually. That may also be the case but most unvaccinated now are in age groups that did not experience any serious level of hospitalisations. There are questions about assumptions they made with their models, especially data from the UK as an example.

Floppybits · 06-07-2021 11:44AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/05/sajid-javid-has-finally-broken-taboo-admitted-lockdowns-cost/

Finally, some well overdue discussion of the very real costs of lockdown and restrictions, the sort of discussion thats been roundly attacked by several posters on this thread. The UK is leading Europe on getting real and on with life, Ireland is at the back of the pack.

Isn't that the Irish way, to not discuss these things and bury them away in a dark closet and never to be opened as we have seen the Mother and baby homes, the state sponsored church abuse and sex. We as a nation need to grow up and start discussing these things not matter who uncomfortable they might be.

Hurrache · 06-07-2021 11:45AM

The Telegraph and Javid, the recent blow in to the Dept of Health in the UK. The Telegraph, the propaganda outlet for the Tories, and Javid, former banker with still ties to the financial industry, who's priority is business and money.

Yeah, there's a perfect combination as to why we should not listen to anything in that story with regards to health.

Sobit1964 · 06-07-2021 11:50AM

Hurrache wrote: »

The Telegraph and Javid, the recent blow in to the Dept of Health in the UK. The Telegraph, the propaganda outlet for the Tories, and Javid, former banker with still ties to the financial industry, who's priority is business and money.

Yeah, there's a perfect combination as to why we should not listen to anything in that story with regards to health.

Its refreshing to hear some grownup discussion when the past year and a half have been so:

https://twitter.com/MalkyTHE/status/1412091304440385540

Floppybits · 06-07-2021 11:52AM

is_that_so wrote: »

At risk should be but not quite enough to protect everyone else. Well the say they considered it. Their hypothesis, as I understand it, is that these huge predictions, if they come true will lead to more hospital cases eventually. That may also be the case but most unvaccinated now are in age groups that did not experience any serious level of hospitalisations. There are questions about assumptions they made with their models, especially data from the UK as an example.

How long has the delta variant been in the country now? If it has been here for more that 3 weeks should we not be seeing a rise in hospitalisation cases? If the vaccines are working then yes we will see the number of cases of covid rise because don't stop people getting covid but we shouldn't see a huge rise is hospital cases and if this is the case then basically covid should now be treated and like the flu.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings