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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #3122
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    UK plans are interesting. Feeling is it will come back to haunt them.


  • #3123
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,043 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    UK plans are interesting. Feeling is it will come back to haunt them.

    That is my sense too. Hope to be proven wrong as I don’t want to see any more virus deaths obviously


  • #3124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    The fact that that headline is pitched as the Government defying NPHET is right there the entire problem!!

    The Government are the ones supposed to be in charge! The only ones they're answerable to (supposedly!) is the electorate, not a group of ass-covering incompetent HSE staffers that have squandered billions of Euro through the mismanagement of our health service each year for decades.

    To clarify, Tony Holohan doesn't work for the HSE.


  • #3125
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,285 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    When the UK re-opened on 17 May they had 54%/30% of the total population with one dose/fully vaccinated.

    Tomorrow, on our originally scheduled re-opening date, we'll be at around 52%/38%, and with slightly stronger protection from the mRNA vaccines.

    Even if we do see the kind of Delta-driven growth rates that Portugal have seen (doubling every 2 weeks) we're 18 days behind their case curve which is enough to administer almost another million doses (+25% more protection).

    Thing is, whilst indoor reopening does introduce risk, surely the position of Portugal as a holiday destination has to be factored in. They re-opened for international tourists in late May, whereas during these two lost weeks we wouldn't have been operating the EU covid cert scheme, so it's not like there would be an influx of hard-partying tourists before the 19th anyway.

    The only upside to this mess is that with the consideration of antigen testing the govt seem to have finally started to break free of NPHET advice.


  • #3126
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    gozunda wrote: »
    And the date was relevant how when discussing why pods were being used exactly? Nothing like a good old bit of faux outrage by some ...

    Yes it was last year. Where have people been that that is news ffs? But do excuse please for not writing a blooming essay. :rolleyes:
    Bit of an overreaction to my post.


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  • #3127
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,262 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    gozunda wrote: »
    I wouldn't be interested in going to events as they are. Though plenty of people seem to be

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    If you throw a starving man a sandwich, it's going to be the best sandwich he's ever had, no matter the content!
    Edit. I see were back to referring to ourselves as Paddies again. Maybe we should just rejoin the glorious empire ...

    Well, I don't know about that, but certainly we have a lot more in common culturally and otherwise with our nearest neighbours than we do with our EU overlords for whom we're an occasional thorn (corporation tax) and stick to beat the UK with (Brexit).

    To be fair, we have only been at the independence lark for just about 100 years I suppose. It shouldn't be surprising that we've largely made a balls of it so far (and keep trying to hand it back - first to the Church, then to the EU) with scandal after scandal since the foundation of the State, never-ending political incompetence, waste and corruption, and a population that largely doesn't think beyond their own driveway or how something will affect them personally.

    We're still very immature as a nation and this is reflected in the decisions made, the actions and attitudes of many, and our constant need for validation and approval from our "betters".


  • #3128
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,262 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Deleted User wrote: »
    To clarify, Tony Holohan doesn't work for the HSE.

    ToMAYto, toMAHto in his case!

    He certainly shouldn't be working as the CMO anyway given his current and previous performances.


  • #3129
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    People are going to die whatever happens. The vaccine only suppresses symptoms, not cure it. People who are in later age and are unwell will still be vulnerable. The virus isn't going anywhere until near global herd immunity is reached.

    If you are vaccinated, that's the best we can do for you. Restrictions at this stage are nonsense. The people most susceptible to death have been vaccinated. We can't save everybody, this needs to be accepted.


  • #3130
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    The first of these events in Newcastle started in 11th August 2020 though, so we’re nearly a year behind, and our one last night doesn’t look too unlike this one, and definitely much bigger scale than the Iveagh Gardens one a few weeks ago.

    There was no antigen test required - why would you even need it when you’re keeping people enclosed in their pods? Food and drink (yes, alcohol) could also be consumed - it just had to be be pre-ordered and then it was delivered to your pen.

    Edit - sorry, I see this has been pointed out a few times!

    Yeah that wasn't even the first UK test gig btw. And I think most people know those gigs started last year in the UK. But no matter.

    The one last night in Kilmainham was somewhat bigger than the first test gig in Newcastle Upon Tyne afaik. On antigen - I've no idea other than there were at least a few screamers demanding that antigen tests be used here at the pilot gigs. Maybe they gave in?


  • #3131
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,262 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Oh I fully agree there royal . He is certainly not “impartial”

    But I mean we can all see the shambles in the UK

    Johnson has repeatedly given dates for full reopening of society - reckless populist bluster that has real world public health consequences

    The backtracking and “omni shambles” (rights reserved by a certain M Tucker!) has been quite a sight to behold

    Given the option, happier to go with the Irish response.

    Didn't we cover this yesterday?

    The Irish response of NPHET trying to force the Government's hand, TDs and various other giving conflicting soundbites in the media, businesses and the general public being told one thing only for it to change at the last moment, and the constant "kite-flying" to where no-one knows what's really going on is hardly something to be shouting about!


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  • #3132
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    leahyl wrote: »
    The date is extremely relevant because the implication was that gigs are currently held the same way in the UK and that’s incorrect. I had no idea that picture was from August 2020 and you knew that well.

    No implication at all.

    Of course it's well know those events were held last year in the UK. It was all over the news and social media. Don't pretend otherwise.

    And no incorrect. That discussion why pods were being used and point of same.

    But hey if you would like to have your own discussion there - please feel free.


  • #3133
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    bear1 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0704/1232972-uk-covid/

    I've never been so envious of the British.
    I don't believe we will get anywhere close to this in 2021.
    ****in nonsense.




    Attention NPHET :


    Mr Jenrick said that, although cases were rising, they had not translated into "serious illness and death", allowing the government to be "positive" about unlocking on 19 July.


  • #3134
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    The vaccine only suppresses symptoms, not cure it.

    You've posted this a few times now.

    It does highlight how many people don't understand how a vaccine actually works.


  • #3135
    beaz2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭beaz2018


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    That is my sense too. Hope to be proven wrong as I don’t want to see any more virus deaths obviously

    so u want to exist with restrictions forever? Because there will always be virus deaths.


  • #3136
    bear1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,900 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    I'd love to know how much our government handed local businesses in the North due to their loose restrictions and our tight ones?
    We must have spent a fortune up there.


  • #3137
    beaz2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭beaz2018


    bear1 wrote: »
    I'd love to know how much our government handed local businesses in the North due to their loose restrictions and our tight ones?
    We must have spent a fortune up there.

    its bloody dear up there too these days. Paid 9pounds for a bowl of soup a few weeks ago. They are cashing in on the the souths savings.


  • #3138
    leahyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    gozunda wrote: »
    Of course it's well know those events were held last year in the UK. It was all over the news and social media. Don't pretend otherwise.

    And no incorrect. That discussion why pods were being used and point of same.

    But hey if you would like to have your own discussion there - please feel free.

    Some of us actually work and have lives to try and get on with and don’t see every single Covid related news report. Get over yourself, seriously - you knew what you were doing there. You quoted my post which wasn’t “discussing why pods were being used” - I was just questioning it and saying how ridiculous I thought it was and your response was to post a picture of a gig in the UK from nearly a year ago knowing that I would think it was the same over there - my response to your post should have told you that - you had every opportunity to say “of course that was in August 2020” or maybe not post it at all, as it’s completely irrelevant; s**t stirrer, nothing else. Won’t be responding to you anymore.


  • #3139
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beaz2018 wrote: »
    so u want to exist with restrictions forever? Because there will always be virus deaths.

    Masks and social distancing are very minor things to do for the sake of preventing further lockdowns.


  • #3140
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Lumen wrote: »
    When the UK re-opened on 17 May they had 54%/30% of the total population with one dose/fully vaccinated.

    Tomorrow, on our originally scheduled re-opening date, we'll be at around 52%/38%, and with slightly stronger protection from the mRNA vaccines.

    Even if we do see the kind of Delta-driven growth rates that Portugal have seen (doubling every 2 weeks) we're 18 days behind their case curve which is enough to administer almost another million doses (+25% more protection).

    Thing is, whilst indoor reopening does introduce risk, surely the position of Portugal as a holiday destination has to be factored in. They re-opened for international tourists in late May, whereas during these two lost weeks we wouldn't have been operating the EU covid cert scheme, so it's not like there would be an influx of hard-partying tourists before the 19th anyway.

    The only upside to this mess is that with the consideration of antigen testing the govt seem to have finally started to break free of NPHET advice.

    Of interest - countries which have very high levels of traffic with the UK include Portugal and Ireland now have some of the highest rates of Delta infection in the EU. Here because of our open border and common travel area and Portugal because they've were amongst the fist major holiday destinations open to UK holidaymakers.


  • #3141
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,285 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    gozunda wrote: »
    Of interest - countries which have very high levels of traffic with the UK include Portugal, Spain and Ireland now have some of the highest rates of Delta infection in the EU. Here because of our open border and common travel area and Spain and Portugal because they've were amongst the fist major holiday destinations open to UK holidaymakers.

    Germany has over 50% delta (report from 5 days ago) and yet their case numbers are low and flattish, with indoor dining open (to people with a covid pass).

    Sensible restrictions are more important than variant %, not least because people just ignore restrictions that are not sensible.


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  • #3142
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,262 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Masks and social distancing are very minor things to do for the sake of preventing further lockdowns.

    No thanks, and I don't buy the reasoning that our alternative is ongoing lockdowns, regardless of Tony and NPHET.

    People need to start taking personal responsibility for their own circumstances again. If you're at risk from Covid you're probably at risk from a host of other things as well that you should be taking precautions against.

    For the overwhelming majority of people in this country, Covid has been proven to be little or no risk to them, and many don't even realise they have/had it unless they're told by a test (which in itself uses questionable metrics to determine that).

    Just as how we don't lock down for the flu, or the measles or any other infectious disease, we cannot keep expecting the majority of people to keep behaving as though there's a deadly killer virus waiting to strike us down, or to treat everyone we come in contact with as potential plague carriers, or isolating ourselves from everyday normal human interaction.

    Covid 19 has become the apex of a trend over the past decade to infantilise the population, abdicate personal responsibility, and to be led by hysteria and agenda-driven politics on social media.

    It has to end and we all need to move on.


  • #3143
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    leahyl wrote: »
    Some of us actually work and have lives to try and get on with and don’t see every single Covid related news report. Get over yourself, seriously - you knew what you were doing there. You quoted my post which wasn’t “discussing why pods were being used” - I was just questioning it and saying how ridiculous I thought it was and your response was to post a picture of a gig in the UK from nearly a year ago knowing that I would think it was the same over there - my response to your post should have told you that - you had every opportunity to say “of course that was in August 2020” or maybe not post it at all, as it’s completely irrelevant; s**t stirrer, nothing else. Won’t be responding to you anymore.

    Lol. Ok let's look at that ...

    This was your comment
    leahyl wrote:
    ..struggling at this point to understand how an outdoor gig with 8k people as a “test” event has people separated into pods of 6 and they have to wear masks??? What is the point??? ...

    And that's exactly what I replied to viz
    "gozunda wrote:
    Afaik you only had to wear masks on the way in etc. Once there - they weren’t mandatory.....As to pods - yeah they look mad - that said the UK ones looked even madder. This was what social distanced enclosures at the Virgin Money Unity Arena in Newcastle upon Tyne looked like.

    So yes that discussion was "why pods were being used and point of same" - hence the photo of the mad ones used in the UK at thst concert.

    But yes it remains those UK test gigs were huge headlines all over the media here and the UK last year. But oddly enough no one here knows that. If you genuinely didn't fair enough.

    And no matter. I'll leave you at it ....


  • #3144
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,449 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Masks and social distancing are very minor things to do for the sake of preventing further lockdowns.

    So that's our choice, restrictions or lockdowns? Not very appealing I have to say. And we did social distancing and masks last year and still ended up in severe lockdown anyway.

    We need to have the conversation of what level of risk is acceptable. At what point do we start to go back to normal? Other countries are clearly having this conversation but not here. Just an endless cycle of threats about rising case numbers, restrictions and lockdowns.


  • #3145
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,262 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So that's our choice, restrictions or lockdowns? Not very appealing I have to say. And we did social distancing and masks last year and still ended up in severe lockdown anyway.


    The irony of course is that this time last year, with no masks, no vaccines, and even less restrictions, and at a time when we knew less about the virus or its effects, we were actually better off than we are now


  • #3146
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Lumen wrote: »
    Germany has over 50% delta (report from 5 days ago) and yet their case numbers are low and flattish, with indoor dining open (to people with a covid pass).

    Sensible restrictions are more important than variant %, not least because people just ignore restrictions that are not sensible.

    Yeah I saw Germany's figures. Thing is looking at social media there seems to be quite a bit of unhappiness with their restrictions as they are

    Actually just saw a news report which says Spain is claiming it has low levels of Delta.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/video/delta-variant-levels-low-spain-182513982.html

    But they are bringing in new travel restrictions to stop the spread
    Portugal, Spain and Germany have issued new travel restrictions in a bid to limit the spread of the more contagious Delta coronavirus variant, which was first detected in India.

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/28/portugal-germany-tighten-travel-restrictions-to-curb-delta-variant-spread

    Interesting article on the spread of Delta in Portugal. Looks like they're pointing the finger at the UK

    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/23/portugal-acknowledges-it-could-have-prevented-spread-of-delta-covid-19-variant


  • #3147
    bear1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,900 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    The irony of course is that this time last year, with no masks, no vaccines, and even less restrictions, and at a time when we knew less about the virus or its effects, we were actually better off than we are now

    I remember coming from Poland to Ireland to enjoy the freedom of no masks and being able to go to a restaurant etc.
    And of course no moronic PCR.
    Now... The complete opposite.
    It's impressive really


  • #3148
    bear1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,900 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    gozunda wrote: »
    Yeah I saw Germany's figures. Thing is looking at social media there seems to be quite a bit of unhappiness with their restrictions as they are

    Actually just saw a new report which says Spain is claiming it has low levels of Delta.
    But they are bringing in new travel restrictions to stop the spread :confused:

    What report?
    Only one I saw was Brazil and South Africa.


  • #3149
    Thespoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Thespoofer


    Just want to say ( partly unrelated to thread ) that I'm now cheering for England in the Euros.

    They've showed up this country in terms of approach to opening up restrictions and with their football.

    That is all.


  • #3150
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Important update from RTE:



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  • #3151
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,262 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Thespoofer wrote: »
    Just want to say ( partly unrelated to thread ) that I'm now cheering for England in the Euros.

    They've showed up this country in terms of approach to opening up restrictions and with their football.

    That is all.

    I'm hoping for an England v Italy final myself, and while I think the Italians will make it tough, I would like to see England do it.


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