Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Deeec · 22-06-2021 9:23pm

discostu1 wrote: »

You forgot the best part, Marie said the Barca tried it on and later appeared in a bedroom she was cleaning ,he was naked.When challenged as this sounded so unbelievable,Marie described a mark/growth on the Gardas nether regions.The Barca admitted yes he had such a mark/growth but he had confided this information to Marie's husband who "must have told her" &#55357;&#56900;

Unfortunately Marie has shown she is very loose with the truth. I think the story of the Garda stripping for Marie is very unlikely!

discostu1 · 22-06-2021 9:25pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I knew the occupants of that other house - it was one of them found the body.
He was a retired chef and his partner - who never recovered from finding Sophie - was a just retired teacher. She had literally just moved there from London that Summer.
This was their dream retirement home and they intended to live there permanently.

To get to their house you had to pass by Sophie's. It was up the side of a mountain in West Cork and I can confirm there was zero mobile phone signal in the area. I know as we got lost looking for the house in the summer of 1996 and were trying to phone them on the one mobile available between 5 people.

In the dead of Winter unless there were lights on in the house it would not be seen by the neighbours. There was also a lot of foliage between the two houses. However, Sophie's house could be seen from the road. Neighbour's house couldn't be seen as it was painted sky blue and very well camouflaged - which is why we couldn't find the blasted place even though our driver had been there many times.

We were going to a retirement party (a BBQ) attended mostly by people involved in the hospitality industry and one of the guests was Ian Bailey. I got the feeling he had invited himself and was infamous for gate-crashing.
I spent most of the evening talking to him and found him a boor, tbh - no-one else wanted anything to do with him.

Much was made of Bailey's attendance at this party - yet, the Gardaí seemed confused about who was in attendance. To give an example - of a well known Cork family one brother was there - Gardaí requested an interview with another brother who had never set foot in the place.

The brother who had been there contacted Gardaí himself and insisted on being interviewed. The thrust of the questions was if Bailey had made any comments about Sophie. Gardaí were told as he spent most of the time talking to me they should ask me that.

Did Bailey comment on Sophie?
Yes, in a roundabout way.

Another guest (not a local) asked who lived in the house we passed. Our host said it was a French film producer who comes and goes and they never know when she's there. Bailey asked if it was "that blonde woman, Sophie something". He was asked if he knew her and replied "just to see around" - there then followed a discussion on French cinema in which Bailey tried to demonstrate his knowledge. He was a know it all and a boor, and that guest that everyone who was there considered the why did you invite him person.

I have never been interviewed by the Gardaí. Or anyone else.

Gardaí were given all my contact details several times.

When I was leaving the country in 1999 I again contacted them to ask if they wanted a statement.

No one got back to me.

From day one the investigation was a cock-up.

Alfie is dead and the house is for sale I think

awec · 22-06-2021 9:28pm

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup wrote: »

the marie farrell story of seeing a guy on the bridge is absolute horses**t

this is the direct walk from jule's cottage to sophie's house: https://goo.gl/maps/6ADkUj26kPy5eALu9
it's a long walk, 50 minute and up a hill at the end, I drove it a few weeks ago (but didn't make the final turn off to sophie's house, even the road before that you feel like you're on a private boreen going into a farm)

now look at the walk if you had to pass kealfadda bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/VekixnwS615jCWct7
it's completely out of the way and turns it into a 90 minute walk!

Thanks for the maps.

Only when looking at these do you realise that the house is literally in the middle of nowhere. And it's miles from Schull. Is that really considered Schull?

oceanman · 22-06-2021 9:41pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Really enjoying Sky’s series. I also intend to watch the upcoming series on Netflix. I don’t know why but the case is one of those that stuck with me.

While I don’t deny that the Gardai made a complete mess of the investment I am firmly convinced that Ian Bailey is guilty as sin.

And I don’t think Marie Farrell can be trusted as far you could throw her.

but the gardai were more than happy to believe marie farrell.....that was of course when she was telling them what they wanted to hear!

Cona44 · 22-06-2021 9:42pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I don’t deny that the Gardai made a complete mess of the investment I am firmly convinced that Ian Bailey is guilty as sin.

I used to firmly be in the same boat that IB was guilty as it was too obvious. When I looked though, there just is zero evidence and the story the guards tried to sell is completely implausible.

It’s actually highly unlikely that he could of done it and not leave some form of evidence behind.

Fighting Irish · 22-06-2021 9:43pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I am firmly convinced that Ian Bailey is guilty as sin.

Why are you firmly convinced?

Orchids · 22-06-2021 9:48pm

Cona44 wrote: »

I used to firmly be in the same boat that IB was guilty as it was too obvious. When I looked though, there just is zero evidence and the story the guards tried to sell is completely implausible.

It’s actually highly unlikely that he could of done it and not leave some form of evidence behind.

Same here, I was convinced of his guilt. After listening to the West Cork podcast, I don't think he did it, guards seemed way too keen to pin it on him to cover up for someone else.

If he was guilty & DPP decided there wasn't enough evidence to pursue him, why didn't he just fade into oblivion but i think he loves the limelight hence all his antics....

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup · 22-06-2021 9:54pm

I see Bailey is on Twitter now: https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/with_replies

no blue checkmark but it reads like the sh*te he'd be coming out with

vladmydad · 22-06-2021 9:54pm

upupup wrote: »

Jilted lover tries to meet her and was seen in town by marie farrell.she tells him its over.
He calls to the house in his blue vauxhall but shes says its over,she walks him to the gate for the last chat and he gets upset and kills her in a rage.he goes back to the house to collect the flowers/gift he brought her and leaves the blood on the door.he is seen speeding away from the scene and disappears forever.
marie farrell is upset because the gaurds didnt believe her true statement so makes up another one about the man on the bridge

This is roughly my take on it too. I thought it was a blue Ford. Either way was this car followed up on, a list of owners etc.

vladmydad · 22-06-2021 10:26pm

My prime suspect would have been the man living next door. The fact that she probably knew her killer, put on her boots to go outside etc. Did he come over late at night for something then made a pass and she rejected him. The murder appears like overkill. Was their house searched, his DNA, hair etc taken , clothes taken ? They heard nothing saw nothing apparently and it was his wife who discovered the body. Conveniently He’s also the only person that linked Bailey to Sophie, said he’s 90% sure he introduced them, as Bailey done gardening once for him. Bailey denied being introduced.

Sadb · 22-06-2021 10:48pm

Cona44 wrote: »

It’s actually highly unlikely that he could of done it and not leave some form of evidence behind.

But someone did do it and not leave some form of evidence behind.

Cona44 · 22-06-2021 10:54pm

Sadb wrote: »

But someone did do it and not leave some form of evidence behind.

Yeah this is the hardest part for me...was there really no dna left at the scene? Was it just mishandled after being left outside so long or was it somehow covered up by AGS?

Does anyone know the exact string of events when Gardai arrived onsite?
Who entered the house and when?

My guess is that senior Garda entered the house instructing junior gardai to mind the path/body. Then found something they didn’t like and went about cleaning up...

fryup · 22-06-2021 11:00pm

Did Sophie have a house phone?? if so were her phone call records ever looked at?

more than likely she got a phone call late that night from her killer to meet her at the gate, may explain why she left the house impromptu in night clothes...seems like she was hurried

Garlinge · 22-06-2021 11:09pm

Yes there was a landline phone. She rang her husband c 10 30 and he rang back 11 pm. She was listed in phone directory under her maiden name.

Larsso30 · 22-06-2021 11:34pm

Cona44 wrote: »

I used to firmly be in the same boat that IB was guilty as it was too obvious. When I looked though, there just is zero evidence and the story the guards tried to sell is completely implausible.

It’s actually highly unlikely that he could of done it and not leave some form of evidence behind.

Tend to agree, established no known link between victim and Bailey, no motive and zero evidence. Could he of done it, absolutely yes but evidence is non existent

JP Liz V1 · 22-06-2021 11:51pm

discostu1 wrote: »

You forgot the best part, Marie said the Barca tried it on and later appeared in a bedroom she was cleaning ,he was naked.When challenged as this sounded so unbelievable,Marie described a mark/growth on the Gardas nether regions.The Barca admitted yes he had such a mark/growth but he had confided this information to Marie's husband who "must have told her" &#55357;&#56900;

Why would he tell the husband that

:eek:

discostu1 · 23-06-2021 12:06am

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Why would he tell the husband that :eek:

That was just one of the many questions only Me and Mrs Farrell could answer ,I cannot imagine anyone you didn't extremely dwell as in best friends saying "Did I ever tell ! You I have a growth on my groin" but that was the story the Barca put forwards the time

Pintman Paddy Losty · 23-06-2021 6:51am

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Why would he tell the husband that :eek:

The growth was apparently on his abdomen, never heard it was nether regions. He said that Mr Farrell noticed spots of blood on his shirt and he explained that he had a lesion, and Mr Farrell told his wife.

Hard to know what's true because Marie Farrell is so bat****.

gussieg · 23-06-2021 8:05am

It seems odd that the son would want to be where his beloved mother was so brutally murdered, and to come back every year. Unless he is still looking for evidence and the truth.

Larsso30 · 23-06-2021 8:12am

gussieg wrote: »

It seems odd that the son would want to be where his beloved mother was so brutally murdered, and to come back every year. Unless he is still looking for evidence and the truth.

May be odd to your or me but may be comforting for him. Not really one for us to judge really, maybe it makes him feel closer to her.

gussieg · 23-06-2021 8:23am

Larsso30 wrote: »

May be odd to your or me but may be comforting for him. Not really one for us to judge really, maybe it makes him feel closer to her.

Not a judgement. And so little about her husband.

fryup · 23-06-2021 8:37am

fryup wrote: »

Did Sophie have a house phone?? if so were her phone call records ever looked at?

more than likely she got a phone call late that night from her killer to meet her at the gate, may explain why she left the house impromptu in night clothes...seems like she was hurried

Garlinge wrote: »

Yes there was a landline phone. She rang her husband c 10 30 and he rang back 11 pm. She was listed in phone directory under her maiden name.

Well if there's no record of a late night phone call, i'm thinking that maybe her killer was with her in the cottage that night...they had there night of romance chatting & drinking wine - which would explain the close proximity of the chairs and the two wine glasses in the sink, later in the wee hours she accompanies him to the gate and as they get there she tells him its over she doesn't want to see him again, which results in murder. He then in panic returns to the cottage to make sure there's no incriminating evidence against him which would explain the bloodstain on the door as his hands were covered in her blood. He has a quick look around and legs it....but does he run? or did he have a car parked at the gate? and if he did run..where did he run to without being seen?? through the fields?

monkeybutter · 23-06-2021 9:40am

vladmydad wrote: »

My prime suspect would have been the man living next door. The fact that she probably knew her killer, put on her boots to go outside etc. Did he come over late at night for something then made a pass and she rejected him. The murder appears like overkill. Was their house searched, his DNA, hair etc taken , clothes taken ? They heard nothing saw nothing apparently and it was his wife who discovered the body. Conveniently He’s also the only person that linked Bailey to Sophie, said he’s 90% sure he introduced them, as Bailey done gardening once for him. Bailey denied being introduced.

bit harsh slandering some auld lad really with zero to back it up

sure it was marie farrell anyway, she did it was lurking out n about at all hours on the night in question

solved, now that would make a good bit of TV

yourdeadwright · 23-06-2021 10:46am

monkeybutter wrote: »

bit harsh slandering some auld lad really with zero to back it up

sure it was marie farrell anyway, she did it was lurking out n about at all hours on the night in question

solved, now that would make a good bit of TV

Could be on to something wasn't she having an affair and with the unnamed man in the night of question , So both out on that night

What if the same man was also doing a line with Sophie & aul Mire went to confront them & things turned pair shaped ,Hence the 2 murder weapons one for Maire one for the unnamed man ,

I'm convinced if there was really a man with Marie he was a Garda , If he was real and he was a Garda it would explain the crap investigation

monkeybutter · 23-06-2021 10:58am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Could be on to something wasn't she having an affair and with the unnamed man in the night of question , So both out on that night

What if the same man was also doing a line with Sophie & aul Mire went to confront them & things turned pair shaped ,Hence the 2 murder weapons one for Maire one for the unnamed man ,

I'm convinced if there was really a man with Marie he was a Garda , If he was real and he was a Garda it would explain the crap investigation

Maybe she wasn't having an affair with a man?

mind blown

phone rings... hello, yes his is netflix, we would like to make another shiiiite docu with ya, really? yeah worse than da tiger king? yuppp

fryup · 23-06-2021 10:59am

the thing about maire farrell is ..she was oh so careful giving a fake name > Fiona and phoning from phonebooths and then out of the blue she phones from her home ..why the sudden change in tack??????

wawaman · 23-06-2021 11:16am

Apologies if this has already been asked and answered. But has a link between IB and Sophie ever been firmly establised? Like were they ever seen together or at least suspected of knowing each other?
The killing was overkill so it makes no sense for IB to rock up to her house out of the blue and kill her.

Loafing Oaf · 23-06-2021 11:24am

wawaman wrote: »

Apologies if this has already been asked and answered. But has a link between IB and Sophie ever been firmly establised? Like were they ever seen together or at least suspected of knowing each other?
The killing was overkill so it makes no sense for IB to rock up to her house out of the blue and kill her.

If there was some sort of flirtation between them, is it surprising that it was completely secret?

wawaman · 23-06-2021 11:26am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

If there was some sort of flirtation between them, is it surprising that it was completely secret?

In rural Ireland, nothing like that nothing is ever really a secret. Somebody would have known or at least suspected something

upupup · 23-06-2021 11:27am

Maybe,marie farrell didn't phone from home because her husband might overhear but she phoned from home the last time because her husband was not home and felt safer.

Loafing Oaf · 23-06-2021 11:32am

wawaman wrote: »

In rural Ireland, nothing like that nothing is ever really a secret. Somebody would have known or at least suspected something

West Cork isn't typical 'rural Ireland' though. Lots of 'outsiders' who keep themselves to themselves down that way.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2021 11:38am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Was Alfie Lyons ever considered as a suspect? Had a very bad relationship with her by all accounts. Suspiciously never heard anything that night. Seemed happy to participate in the stitch up of Bailey.

Bailey is definitely guilty of being a pompous arrogant git but don't think there's much evidence pointing to him for this.

To accuse Alfie Lyons is also to accuse Shirley of being involved - unless you think he could have slipped out of a small cottage in the middle of the night unnoticed, managed to clean himself off in the dark, and slip back in to get into bed knowing he had left a body for his partner to find the next day. Either that or Shirley knew and was a superb actress. She never recovered from finding Sophie's body.

Alfie at the time was a man getting on in years and physically incapable of beating his way out of a paper bag. His body was paying big time for a life as a dope smoking hippy.
He also was a victim. The home he had lovingly created for himself and Shirley to spend the rest of their lives in was forever tainted.
Shirley had been a teacher in a very rough End End of London school and it was the thought of retiring to their lovely cottage that kept her going.

Their dream literally died that night.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2021 11:40am

SoulWriter wrote: »

I don't recall hearing that. What was the problem, wasn't Alfie's wife her housekeeper?

No.

Alfie's partner was a teacher in London. She retired that Summer.

She most certainly was not anyone's housekeeper.

fryup · 23-06-2021 11:41am

^^^^^^^^^^

do you still live there? west cork

silver2020 · 23-06-2021 11:43am

wawaman wrote: »

Apologies if this has already been asked and answered. But has a link between IB and Sophie ever been firmly establised? Like were they ever seen together or at least suspected of knowing each other?
The killing was overkill so it makes no sense for IB to rock up to her house out of the blue and kill her.

none whatsoever. Not even a passing flirt.

And whilst Bailey would be the first to admit he has a bit of a temper, it was almost always when he was drunk, and if someone was drunk, they would have left a lot of evidence.

And in rural Ireland, you will have gossip based on someone even looking in someone else's direction. And Sophie was someone that the locals liked to gossip about as she was different and she liked to flirt.

It is extremely rare for a murder to be totally random without some form of connection / perturbed reasoning. Even simple rejection of advances would not elicit a murder unless it got to a stage of stalking.

The gardai have never come up with a motive for Bailey, but he was an easy target. A bit eccentric, known to be belligerent and to fling out a bit, but never known to do anything on a totally random basis.

Gardai made an irrational assumption of his guilt and steered all their enquires to meet that assumption ignoring facts and basic investigation - and its not the first time such style of investigation was used

23-06-2021 11:46am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.

Alfie's partner was a teacher in London. She retired that Summer.

She most certainly was not anyone's housekeeper.

who was the woman who used to look after the place for sophie?

yourdeadwright · 23-06-2021 11:47am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

To accuse Alfie Lyons is also to accuse Shirley of being involved - unless you think he could have slipped out of a small cottage in the middle of the night unnoticed, managed to clean himself off in the dark, and slip back in to get into bed knowing he had left a body for his partner to find the next day. Either that or Shirley knew and was a superb actress. She never recovered from finding Sophie's body.

Alfie at the time was a man getting on in years and physically incapable of beating his way out of a paper bag. His body was paying big time for a life as a dope smoking hippy.
He also was a victim. The home he had lovingly created for himself and Shirley to spend the rest of their lives in was forever tainted.
Shirley had been a teacher in a very rough End End of London school and it was the thought of retiring to their lovely cottage that kept her going.

Their dream literally died that night.

Alfie was a quite stocky bloke he wasn't a frail man,

How old was Alfie in 1996

odyssey06 · 23-06-2021 11:47am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

To accuse Alfie Lyons is also to accuse Shirley of being involved - unless you think he could have slipped out of a small cottage in the middle of the night unnoticed, managed to clean himself off in the dark, and slip back in to get into bed knowing he had left a body for his partner to find the next day. Either that or Shirley knew and was a superb actress. She never recovered from finding Sophie's body... Alfie at the time was a man getting on in years and physically incapable of beating his way out of a paper bag.

Well not necessarily, if someone is a particularly sound sleeper \ uses earplugs \ sleeping meds.

But obviously it's unlikely scenario because of your other points.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2021 11:48am

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^

do you still live there? west cork

My then in-laws have a house in W Cork and knew both Alfie and Shirley very well. I haven't been there in 20 years.

I, on a good few occasions, worked with Alfie when he would do some chef shifts as a favour.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2021 11:51am

SoulWriter wrote: »

who was the woman who used to look after the place for sophie?

I have no idea. Never met Sophie. All I knew about her was she was a French film producer who would turn up unexpectedly, complain about everything, and leave just as unexpectedly.

I can categorically say who ever her housekeeper was they had nothing to do with Alfie Lyons.

23-06-2021 11:55am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have no idea. Never met Sophie. All I knew about her was she was a French film producer who would turn up unexpectedly, complain about everything, and leave just as unexpectedly.

I can categorically say who ever her housekeeper was they had nothing to do with Alfie Lyons.

Josephine Hellen was the housekeeper https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locks-were-changed-after-intruder-at-du-plantier-house-said-housekeeper-30242061.html

yourdeadwright · 23-06-2021 11:56am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have no idea. Never met Sophie. All I knew about her was she was a French film producer who would turn up unexpectedly, complain about everything, and leave just as unexpectedly.

I can categorically say who ever her housekeeper was they had nothing to do with Alfie Lyons.

How old was Alfie in 1996

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2021 12:00pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Alfie was a quite stocky bloke he wasn't a frail man,

How old was Alfie in 1996

I worked with Alfie on and off over a number of years. By 1995 he was no longer able to do even one shift as a pastry chef.

He was not stocky. He was lanky but beginning to stoop. He was physically fecked from a life of smoking grass. In fact his lungs were so bad he'd had to quit and needed to get rid of his beloved (and illegal) Californian sensimilla plants he had gotten of Robert Mitchum when Mitchum was over filming Ryan's Daughter.

A neighbour's goats solved the problem by eating the plants and in the Summer of '96 Alfie was joking he was thinking of buying all the goat milk and making a very special cheese.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2021 12:03pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How old was Alfie in 1996

As far as I knew late 60s. He had children far older than me and I was born in the early 1960s. I don't generally go around interrogating people as to their age.

robwen · 23-06-2021 12:11pm

SoulWriter wrote: »

Josephine Hellen was the housekeeper https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locks-were-changed-after-intruder-at-du-plantier-house-said-housekeeper-30242061.html

This seems a pretty big lead to be investigated, I haven't heard before,

"Ms Hellen claimed that Sophie suspected that someone was getting into the house to use her water and bathroom facilities while she was away. She described how once she was at the house when Sophie had just arrived from France with Bruno Carbonnet.

He complained that the bath was not clean.

"I went upstairs to check it and straight away I saw it was used. I cleaned it on the Thursday and this was the Friday when they came, so it was used on Thursday night.

"We checked the house to see where he came in and the window of the porch was open, so this was the only place he could have got in and used the bath."

Also it's not in this article but I read or heard somewhere maybe the West Cork podcast that Sophie's housekeeper said there was a small axe usually kept at the door of the cottage but it was missing & it could of matched with some of the injuries to the back of her head

Mebuntu · 23-06-2021 12:13pm

I didn't know many of the facts of this case so I found the series to be excellent although I agree that Jim was not the ideal narrator.

One of the most disturbing aspects of this case is the fact that Senior French Judiciary (not ordinary men and women in a jury) convicted a man for murder on the basis of the so-called "evidence" provided. There must be thousands of innocent people in French gaols.

Shelga · 23-06-2021 12:57pm

I’m on episode 4. I also listened to the West Cork podcast. I really don’t think there’s enough evidence to convict Bailey of murder. If I was on a jury, based on what I’ve been shown, I would acquit.

There are so many other possibilities that were never explored, as others have said. The heating thing doesn’t add up at all. Sophie could have had a lover in Dublin, he visited, they rowed, he killed her, he left. So many avenues that seemed to be completely unexplored.

Marie Farrell is an unreliable witness.

Completely plausible that the neighbours heard nothing- it’s not like these are two-up, two-down houses- the neighbours are a couple of hundred metres away?? Plus it could have been windy, all windows would have been closed as it was winter and everyone inside.

The only thing that gives me pause is Ian dramatically confessing to multiple people. But I think he’s a strange, narcissistic man who thrives on the attention.

notahappycamper · 23-06-2021 1:29pm

What a fcuking eeejit Marie Farrell was in all of this. Perverting the course of justice….

Deeec · 23-06-2021 1:33pm

notahappycamper wrote: »

What a fcuking eeejit Marie Farrell was in all of this. Perverting the course of justice….

Absolutely and she is still making a fool of herself by appearing in the various documenteries regarding the case. I would assume she gets paid a fee for doing the interviews. She doesnt appear to show remorse for what she done.

Gussie Scrotch · 23-06-2021 1:35pm

notahappycamper wrote: »

What a fcuking eeejit Marie Farrell was in all of this. Perverting the course of justice….

You're absolutely right.

I believe that Marie Farrell could blow this wide open if she were willing to tell everything she knows.

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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