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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,008 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    who was the woman who used to look after the place for sophie?


    I have no idea. Never met Sophie. All I knew about her was she was a French film producer who would turn up unexpectedly, complain about everything, and leave just as unexpectedly.


    I can categorically say who ever her housekeeper was they had nothing to do with Alfie Lyons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭ SoulWriter


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I have no idea. Never met Sophie. All I knew about her was she was a French film producer who would turn up unexpectedly, complain about everything, and leave just as unexpectedly.


    I can categorically say who ever her housekeeper was they had nothing to do with Alfie Lyons.
    Josephine Hellen was the housekeeper https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locks-were-changed-after-intruder-at-du-plantier-house-said-housekeeper-30242061.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I have no idea. Never met Sophie. All I knew about her was she was a French film producer who would turn up unexpectedly, complain about everything, and leave just as unexpectedly.


    I can categorically say who ever her housekeeper was they had nothing to do with Alfie Lyons.

    How old was Alfie in 1996


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,008 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    Alfie was a quite stocky bloke he wasn't a frail man,

    How old was Alfie in 1996


    I worked with Alfie on and off over a number of years. By 1995 he was no longer able to do even one shift as a pastry chef.



    He was not stocky. He was lanky but beginning to stoop. He was physically fecked from a life of smoking grass. In fact his lungs were so bad he'd had to quit and needed to get rid of his beloved (and illegal) Californian sensimilla plants he had gotten of Robert Mitchum when Mitchum was over filming Ryan's Daughter.


    A neighbour's goats solved the problem by eating the plants and in the Summer of '96 Alfie was joking he was thinking of buying all the goat milk and making a very special cheese.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,008 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    How old was Alfie in 1996




    As far as I knew late 60s. He had children far older than me and I was born in the early 1960s. I don't generally go around interrogating people as to their age.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭ robwen


    SoulWriter wrote: »

    This seems a pretty big lead to be investigated, I haven't heard before,

    "Ms Hellen claimed that Sophie suspected that someone was getting into the house to use her water and bathroom facilities while she was away. She described how once she was at the house when Sophie had just arrived from France with Bruno Carbonnet.

    He complained that the bath was not clean.

    "I went upstairs to check it and straight away I saw it was used. I cleaned it on the Thursday and this was the Friday when they came, so it was used on Thursday night.

    "We checked the house to see where he came in and the window of the porch was open, so this was the only place he could have got in and used the bath."

    Also it's not in this article but I read or heard somewhere maybe the West Cork podcast that Sophie's housekeeper said there was a small axe usually kept at the door of the cottage but it was missing & it could of matched with some of the injuries to the back of her head


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Mebuntu


    I didn't know many of the facts of this case so I found the series to be excellent although I agree that Jim was not the ideal narrator.

    One of the most disturbing aspects of this case is the fact that Senior French Judiciary (not ordinary men and women in a jury) convicted a man for murder on the basis of the so-called "evidence" provided. There must be thousands of innocent people in French gaols.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭ Shelga


    I’m on episode 4. I also listened to the West Cork podcast. I really don’t think there’s enough evidence to convict Bailey of murder. If I was on a jury, based on what I’ve been shown, I would acquit.

    There are so many other possibilities that were never explored, as others have said. The heating thing doesn’t add up at all. Sophie could have had a lover in Dublin, he visited, they rowed, he killed her, he left. So many avenues that seemed to be completely unexplored.

    Marie Farrell is an unreliable witness.

    Completely plausible that the neighbours heard nothing- it’s not like these are two-up, two-down houses- the neighbours are a couple of hundred metres away?? Plus it could have been windy, all windows would have been closed as it was winter and everyone inside.

    The only thing that gives me pause is Ian dramatically confessing to multiple people. But I think he’s a strange, narcissistic man who thrives on the attention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭ notahappycamper


    What a fcuking eeejit Marie Farrell was in all of this. Perverting the course of justice….


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭ Deeec


    What a fcuking eeejit Marie Farrell was in all of this. Perverting the course of justice….

    Absolutely and she is still making a fool of herself by appearing in the various documenteries regarding the case. I would assume she gets paid a fee for doing the interviews. She doesnt appear to show remorse for what she done.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭ Gussie Scrotch


    What a fcuking eeejit Marie Farrell was in all of this. Perverting the course of justice….

    You're absolutely right.

    I believe that Marie Farrell could blow this wide open if she were willing to tell everything she knows.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭ notahappycamper


    wawaman wrote: »
    Apologies if this has already been asked and answered. But has a link between IB and Sophie ever been firmly establised? Like were they ever seen together or at least suspected of knowing each other?
    The killing was overkill so it makes no sense for IB to rock up to her house out of the blue and kill her.

    In the West Cork Podcast, it is said Alfie (Sophie’s neighbour) thought he introduced them to each other as IB was up in his house gardening the Summer before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭ mioniqa


    I came across this article https://www.francetvinfo.fr/economie/emploi/metiers/art-culture-edition/video-il-faut-se-battre-pour-etre-productrice-melita-toscan-du-plantier-l-une-des-rares-femmes-a-avoir-dirige-un-festival-de-cinema_3105219.html and used google translate to read it.

    Apparently the mother of Daniel Toscan du Plantier's fourth wife's was murdered by her father (Melita Nikolic's mother was murdered by her father). Weird to be connected to two murders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭ SoulWriter


    In the West Cork Podcast, it is said Alfie (Sophie’s neighbour) thought he introduced them to each other as IB was up in his house gardening the Summer before.
    That is correct and Bailey denies it. Bailey says he may have seen her at a distance,possibly that day or maybe another day. Bailey denies actually meeting Sophie


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,033 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    robwen wrote: »
    This seems a pretty big lead to be investigated, I haven't heard before,

    "Ms Hellen claimed that Sophie suspected that someone was getting into the house to use her water and bathroom facilities while she was away. She described how once she was at the house when Sophie had just arrived from France with Bruno Carbonnet.

    He complained that the bath was not clean.

    "I went upstairs to check it and straight away I saw it was used. I cleaned it on the Thursday and this was the Friday when they came, so it was used on Thursday night.

    "We checked the house to see where he came in and the window of the porch was open, so this was the only place he could have got in and used the bath."

    Also it's not in this article but I read or heard somewhere maybe the West Cork podcast that Sophie's housekeeper said there was a small axe usually kept at the door of the cottage but it was missing & it could of matched with some of the injuries to the back of her head

    Shirley they fingerprinted bannisters and bathroom given that story? And considering very few visitors you’d imagine they’d be eager to find the owners of all fingerprints in that house


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭ Shelga


    No DNA evidence whatsoever. No motive on Bailey's part. No connection from him to Sophie, apart from maybe being introduced to her once. No other evidence of any communication or relationship between them.

    What exactly did the French court convict on?! Someone said Bailey had scratches on his hands, and a local attention-seeker and proven liar (being generous) says she saw a man at a bridge at 2am that wasn't even that near either the murder scene or his own house?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,936 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    Shelga wrote: »
    Sophie could have had a lover in Dublin, he visited, they rowed, he killed her, he left.

    But without hard evidence like DNA this isn't on any firmer ground than the Bailey 'conviction'. How could it be followed up 25 years on?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,142 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    Havent seen the Sky series yet, is there anywhere else to watch it other than Sky?

    Just on Marie Farrell, iirc her claim when she eventually told 'the truth' was she was having an affair and was put under duress by the Gardai to place Bailey at this bridge at a time that fitted into the murder timeline. Is she still going with that story in the documentary and now admitting she never saw Bailey at all?

    Also there was another local who had a number of convictions for cannabis possession. He claimed the Gardai had him under duress to make a statement as well to frame Bailey, iirc he also claimed the Gardai were supplying him with hash in exchange. Did he come up in the documentary at all?


  • Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭ Cona44


    The Sky documentary wasn't very thorough and seemed to just want to keep it short and to the point at a high level. Didn't really mention anything we dont already know. Kind of targetted at an audience who know nothing about the story so far.

    The West Cork podcast has been the most detailed, in-depth version of events so far. Although, I wish it had dug a bit deeper seeing as they spent 3 years in total in West Cork making the show. The episode where they explore who could have done it (if not IB) was a waste of time really. They harped on about a horse and the story of Elks in Norway or something for no real reason. We know it had to be a murder due to the murder weapons, so I thought this was a bit stupid.
    Also, now that I listen back to it, they let a few of the small details go without comment. This case really will revolve around the small details.


  • Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭ Cona44


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Havent seen the Sky series yet, is there anywhere else to watch it other than Sky?

    Just on Marie Farrell, iirc her claim when she eventually told 'the truth' was she was having an affair and was put under duress by the Gardai to place Bailey at this bridge at a time that fitted into the murder timeline. Is she still going with that story in the documentary and now admitting she never saw Bailey at all?

    Also there was another local who had a number of convictions for cannabis possession. He claimed the Gardai had him under duress to make a statement as well to frame Bailey, iirc he also claimed the Gardai were supplying him with hash in exchange. Did he come up in the documentary at all?

    I actually dont know what MF story is any more. She still spoofing on about seeing a 'tanned' small man wearing a beret. What utter boll**ks...

    THink they briefly mention Martin Graham in the Sky documentary but not a lot of detail. He has sadly passed away now so maybe thats why.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭ MoonUnit75


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Havent seen the Sky series yet, is there anywhere else to watch it other than Sky?

    Just on Marie Farrell, iirc her claim when she eventually told 'the truth' was she was having an affair and was put under duress by the Gardai to place Bailey at this bridge at a time that fitted into the murder timeline. Is she still going with that story in the documentary and now admitting she never saw Bailey at all?

    It never made sense to me why she was 'under duress' when it was her who contacted the Gardai multiple times anonymously and they had to make an appeal for her to contact them again? She seems totally unreliable, but it just doesn't make sense that she would risk exposing her affair for no good reason. She went out of her way to disguise her identity at first, so she was fully aware of the risks of making a false statement about something she never actually saw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭ Shelga


    Also how can the French even have a trial with no defence presented? Doesn’t that break one of the pillars of a fair judicial process? Everything the prosecution put forward was completely uncontested.

    Now, I’m not saying Bailey definitely did not do it. No one knows, or probably will ever know for sure. But there sure as hell seems to be nowhere near enough evidence to prove he did it, beyond reasonable doubt.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Havent seen the Sky series yet, is there anywhere else to watch it other than Sky?

    Just on Marie Farrell, iirc her claim when she eventually told 'the truth' was she was having an affair and was put under duress by the Gardai to place Bailey at this bridge at a time that fitted into the murder timeline. Is she still going with that story in the documentary and now admitting she never saw Bailey at all?

    Also there was another local who had a number of convictions for cannabis possession. He claimed the Gardai had him under duress to make a statement as well to frame Bailey, iirc he also claimed the Gardai were supplying him with hash in exchange. Did he come up in the documentary at all?

    This guy is dead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭ Sardonicat


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    It never made sense to me why she was 'under duress' when it was her who contacted the Gardai multiple times anonymously and they had to make an appeal for her to contact them again? She seems totally unreliable, but it just doesn't make sense that she would risk exposing her affair for no good reason. She went out of her way to disguise her identity at first, so she was fully aware of the risks of making a false statement about something she never actually saw.

    She's a fantasist IMO, and her nonsense got her drawn into something that had her digging herself in deeper with more lies. I don't believe she ever saw anyone, anywhere or that she was out on the night or having an affair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    awec wrote: »
    This guy is dead.


    Not sure he would be expecting the man himself to be jumping at the opportunity to be interviewed were he alive



    More like, did this allegation rear its head


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,936 ✭✭✭ Morzadec


    I know very little about this case other than the names Ian Bailey and Sophie de Plantier.

    I saw there's this Sky doc as well as a different one on Netflix. Was considering watching one but not sure which to go for - anyone who has watched both have any opinions on which would be better?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    Morzadec wrote: »
    I know very little about this case other than the names Ian Bailey and Sophie de Plantier.

    I saw there's this Sky doc as well as a different one on Netflix. Was considering watching one but not sure which to go for - anyone who has watched both have any opinions on which would be better?




    neither


    look up some articles in the Irish times etc, save yourself some times and they are less biased


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    Just on the Police, they were not equipped or trained properly to deal with this.



    I presume lessons have been learned, would they not have serious crime teams at a regional or national level who would be parachuted in to assist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭ Tipsy McSwagger


    The guards drawing a picture of Baileys hands and not taking photos is one of the worst things I have ever seen in a crime doc, embarrassing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,169 ✭✭✭ corcaigh07


    Morzadec wrote: »
    I know very little about this case other than the names Ian Bailey and Sophie de Plantier.

    I saw there's this Sky doc as well as a different one on Netflix. Was considering watching one but not sure which to go for - anyone who has watched both have any opinions on which would be better?

    Listen to the "West Cork" podcast.


This discussion has been closed.
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