Murder at the Cottage | Sky

JimmyVik

The whole thing has always seemed to me that people want to hang the crime on someone.
Quite early on they got a suspect and fitted the evidence around him.
Meanwhile they forgot to actually investigate the crime.
Even in this thread you see people who believe it was him, just on a gut feeling, or just selecting evidence that suits the fit.

And as for the French trial ...
Dont ever get arrested in France

monkeybutter

what other famous west cork native could be a suspect? would have 100% been in west cork xmass 1996

Bannasidhe

monkeybutter wrote: »

what other famous west cork native could be a suspect? would have 100% been in west cork xmass 1996

Why Famous?

If someone was being protected it's far more likely to be a local 'pillar of the community' type.

JimmyVik

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why Famous?

If someone was being protected it's far more likely to be a local 'pillar of the community' type.

Maybe noone is being protected and the murderer just slipped away out of contention as the focus shifted and stayed on IB.
They had their man, now they were only going to look for evidence that fitted this man.
Any other evidence just got in the way, so was skipped over.

monkeybutter

JimmyVik wrote: »

Maybe noone is being protected and the murderer just slipped away out of contention as the focus shifted and stayed on IB.
They had their man, now they were only going to look for evidence that fitted this man.
Any other evidence just got in the way, so was skipped over.

to strike again years later, duh duh dunnnnn

monkeybutter

whos bringing the horse to france?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOS1ALsW-08

Deeec

The gardai didnt preserve the murder scene so no forensic evidence could be obtained and made an absolute shambles of the investigation. They picked Ian Bailey as the murderer to cover up their mistakes. They could even have been under pressure from the government to make it look like they solved the crime. Remember Sophie was well connected in France and in the eyes of the French Ireland as a country didnt look good at the time of the investigation. Ian Bailey was known to be violent and a strange character that noone really liked - he was the perfect guy to frame it on. Only problem was they had no evidence. They thought they could use Marie Farrell as a witness but that didnt go to plan!

The whole thing was to cover the Gardai's failings. Meanwhile the real murderer got away. We will never know the truth of what happened this poor lady.

MoonUnit75

JimmyVik wrote: »

The whole thing has always seemed to me that people want to hang the crime on someone.
Quite early on they got a suspect and fitted the evidence around him.
Meanwhile they forgot to actually investigate the crime.
Even in this thread you see people who believe it was him, just on a gut feeling, or just selecting evidence that suits the fit.

And as for the French trial ...
Dont ever get arrested in France

What's wrong with the French justice system? He wasn't denied the option to defend himself, he chose not to.

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

What's wrong with the French justice system? He wasn't denied the option to defend himself, he chose not to.

no evidence and they convicted him


if he went to defend himself he would be in jail


need we say more

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

no evidence and they convicted him


if he went to defend himself he would be in jail


need we say more

Yes, we do need to say more. The French argued the DPP decision was to eliminate each piece of evidence based on its own probability and not weigh the entirety of it together against the exculpatory evidence.

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Yes, we do need to say more. The French argued the DPP decision was to eliminate each piece of evidence based on its own probability and not weigh the entirety of it together against the exculpatory evidence.

There's zero evidence left after the lies have been removed, there no balance of probablity


like none


you can't say 8 pieces of bull**** equate to 1 truth


that is what they were saying

Tipsy McSwagger

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

What's wrong with the French justice system? He wasn't denied the option to defend himself, he chose not to.

Two words Marie Farrell

threeball

Castlekeeper wrote: »

The randy garda, now deceased, is the only local theory that ever made sense to me.

It would tie in with why the Guards made such a botch of the investigation too. We saw in Raphoe how protective they were of their own and this was around the same era.

yourdeadwright

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Yes, we do need to say more. The French argued the DPP decision was to eliminate each piece of evidence based on its own probability and not weigh the entirety of it together against the exculpatory evidence.

There was no actually evidence linking IB to Sophie at all ,

Just hear say & nonsense

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

There's zero evidence left after the lies have been removed, there no balance of probablity


like none


you can't say 8 pieces of bull**** equate to 1 truth


that is what they were saying

How many days were you there for the trial?

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

How many days were you there for the trial?

I would suspect as many as you

odyssey06

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

What's wrong with the French justice system? He wasn't denied the option to defend himself, he chose not to.

It was a kangaroo court and to convince on such shoddy evidence was either corruption or incompetence. So yes, there's something deeply wrong with a system that claims such powers for itself outside its own territory and wields them on such shoddy evidence.
France should have been told to take a running jump with the abuse of power they claim for themselves in terms of trying a case that occurred on Irish territory.

yourdeadwright

odyssey06 wrote: »

It was a kangaroo court and to convince on such shoddy evidence was either corruption or incompetence. So yes, there's something deeply wrong with a system that claims such powers for itself outside its own territory and wields them on such shoddy evidence.
France should have been told to take a running jump with the abuse of power they claim for themselves in terms of trying a case that occurred on Irish territory.

I suspect because of who her Husband was & because the French knew IB was never going anywhere near France
It was more just for the camera's.the French public & Sophie's family more than anything else,
It was a just a show of power & solidarity from the French legal system , Basically just a big of a soap opera

MoonUnit75

monkeybutter wrote: »

I would suspect as many as you

And yet here we are, one of us admits ignorance but also that there was no case.

SusanC10

monkeybutter wrote: »

what other famous west cork native could be a suspect? would have 100% been in west cork xmass 1996

Oh God - just had a thought on that.

monkeybutter

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

And yet here we are, one of us admits ignorance but also that there was no case.

are you the one admitting ignorance?


I am fully aware of the ins and the outs of the case and reports on how it was tried in France and why it was tried in the first place


no evidence, corroborated by the DPP twice


admitted on tape by members of an garda involved

Yurt2

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

And yet here we are, one of us admits ignorance but also that there was no case.

Allo Monsieur MoonUnit,

We 'av received very reliable how you say evidence from not so crazy local dairy farmer that you were present in Schull West Cork zee night of zee murder. We hear from locals you 'av been a very naughty boy and 'av very bad reputations. Please come to Paris at earliest convenience so we can conduct un très très fair trial.

Repondez s'il vous plaît,

Cordialement,

Very important French person with your best interests in mind.

fryup

monkeybutter wrote: »

what other famous west cork native could be a suspect? would have 100% been in west cork xmass 1996

who are you alluding to??

Mackwiss

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup wrote: »

the marie farrell story of seeing a guy on the bridge is absolute horses**t

this is the direct walk from jule's cottage to sophie's house: https://goo.gl/maps/6ADkUj26kPy5eALu9
it's a long walk, 50 minute and up a hill at the end, I drove it a few weeks ago (but didn't make the final turn off to sophie's house, even the road before that you feel like you're on a private boreen going into a farm)

now look at the walk if you had to pass kealfadda bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/VekixnwS615jCWct7
it's completely out of the way and turns it into a 90 minute walk!

Thank you for this! It does show how implausible it would be for IB to do that route!

This lead me to more questions actually... if IB did it he would take the shortest route home.

Only exception would be if he was completely drunk and went completely on a wonder and then seen at the bridge... (despite the witness having zero credibility)

But let's suppose that was Ian there on that night, still that is no evidence he went up the road to kill her... it would much more be possible he was drunk and wandering around.

Ian never gives a straight answer on this matter even on the doc he doesn't talk about. Was he writing like he claims? Would he remember what was written or if he dated it for example? Did something happens he's ashamed of? Obviously the guards took away his diaries and potentially the writings from that night...


Now there's another matter to think about. If it wasn't IB and a local killer with pre-meditated motifs wouldn't take the road by the bridge and probably go north towards Durrus instead of straight to Schull.

A murderer on a fit of rage would've gone straight to Schull to escape towards the N71 panicking in regret. Which would mean the blue ford with the red license plates could be the killer.

Now if the killer was not local the killer would need to know very well the roads and boreens in a time where without GPS or Google Maps didn't exist

So the next question is, would the boreen that goes from the bridge to the R591 be present on a 1990s road map that someone could follow to get there. coming from abroad through Cork Airport?

Or if he knew the victim, he would've known how to get to her house from Schull and that's why he took that route.

Lastly, where would red license plates come from? I remember French license plates being metallic and black back in the 90s?

About the killing itself... not sure if the information about glasses or chairs is factual. My theory is, she saw a car stopped at the gate with the lights on went on to see what was the issue with the vehicle and picked the axe as defense. And was then killed from behind in the dark.

For some reason killer goes back in the house, maybe to turn off the lights or to pick up something, or simply to close the door to the house and leaves.

Creamy Goodness

Mackwiss wrote: »

Lastly, where would red license plates come from? I remember French license plates being metallic and black back in the 90s?

Irish plates were black text on red for a period of time, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Cona44

Cona44 wrote: »

The Sky documentary wasn't very thorough and seemed to just want to keep it short and to the point at a high level. Didn't really mention anything we dont already know. Kind of targetted at an audience who know nothing about the story so far.

The West Cork podcast has been the most detailed, in-depth version of events so far. Although, I wish it had dug a bit deeper seeing as they spent 3 years in total in West Cork making the show. The episode where they explore who could have done it (if not IB) was a waste of time really. They harped on about a horse and the story of Elks in Norway or something for no real reason. We know it had to be a murder due to the murder weapons, so I thought this was a bit stupid.
Also, now that I listen back to it, they let a few of the small details go without comment. This case really will revolve around the small details.

all the documentary makers have to approach the main players. I'm sure they will make rules as to what can be asked and talked about. They are all looking to spin their side. Sophie's side pulled out because they didn't like the way Bailey was featured. Bailey says Netflix is propoganda because they are pandering to sophie's side.

Creamy Goodness

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Irish plates were black text on red for a period of time, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

the back ones were, the front one were black on white

Loafing Oaf

SoulWriter wrote: »

all the documentary makers have to approach the main payers.

Don't you mean payees?:P

Mackwiss

Mackwiss wrote: »

Thank you for this! It does show how implausible it would be for IB to do that route!

This lead me to more questions actually... if IB did it he would take the shortest route home.

Only exception would be if he was completely drunk and went completely on a wonder and then seen at the bridge... (despite the witness having zero credibility)

But let's suppose that was Ian there on that night, still that is no evidence he went up the road to kill her... it would much more be possible he was drunk and wandering around.

Ian never gives a straight answer on this matter even on the doc he doesn't talk about. Was he writing like he claims? Would he remember what was written or if he dated it for example? Did something happens he's ashamed of? Obviously the guards took away his diaries and potentially the writings from that night...


Now there's another matter to think about. If it wasn't IB and a local killer with pre-meditated motifs wouldn't take the road by the bridge and probably go north towards Durrus instead of straight to Schull.

A murderer on a fit of rage would've gone straight to Schull to escape towards the N71 panicking in regret. Which would mean the blue ford with the red license plates could be the killer.

Now if the killer was not local the killer would need to know very well the roads and boreens in a time where without GPS or Google Maps didn't exist

So the next question is, would the boreen that goes from the bridge to the R591 be present on a 1990s road map that someone could follow to get there. coming from abroad through Cork Airport?

Or if he knew the victim, he would've known how to get to her house from Schull and that's why he took that route.

Lastly, where would red license plates come from? I remember French license plates being metallic and black back in the 90s?

About the killing itself... not sure if the information about glasses or chairs is factual. My theory is, she saw a car stopped at the gate with the lights on went on to see what was the issue with the vehicle and picked the axe as defense. And was then killed from behind in the dark.

For some reason killer goes back in the house, maybe to turn off the lights or to pick up something, or simply to close the door to the house and leaves.

from DPP file

Bailey states that it is not unusual for him to get up during the night
but onthis occasion he had to get up because he had a story to write for the
Sunday Tribune and it had to be submitted on Monday 23 December
1996.
9. He states that this was a very difficult story because it was about
computers and he found it difficult to write 900 words on this subject
which had to refer to computer language etc.
He states that he hand wrote the story in the kitchen of Jules' house and
then between 7.00 and 8.00 a.m. as dawn was approaching, the first light
of the day was beginning to show, he went to type it below in the studio.
He says that he had to fax the story as he could not dictate it. Normally
he dictates his story by telephone.

fryup

irish licence plates were wishy washy back then, most were red some were black and some were white...its only in the late 90's that rules got strict about number plates with all new cars sold with the standard type we have today