Murder at the Cottage | Sky

notahappycamper · 21-06-2021 9:51am

Yes, very poor that a day was wasted. This was a murder and the State Pathologist should have got his ass down there asap either by helicopter or Garda escort noting time was of the essence and the time of year. It was 1996, not 1896. The truth will never be known unless there is a confession at this stage.

Deeec · 21-06-2021 10:01am

Addle wrote: »

If you’ve listened to the podcast, there’s nothing new in it, so it’s disappointing.
Sheridan likes to be in front of the camera as much as Bailey. He’s not a natural presenter/documentarian.
I’d recommend the West Cork podcast over it.

I agree West Cork podcast is excellent. Only thing I got out of the sky documentary was visual regarding the location etc. I didnt realise that there was another house so close to Sophies house.

Its a very strange case. I find it odd that she was there at christmas. Its a very remote and desolate location in winter. The explanation of the heating not working didnt make sense. Why would she need to be there to get the heating fixed? Why go stay in a house where the heating is not working in the depths of winter?

Bailey is a nutter but I dont think he done it. My theory is the answer to who murdered Sophie lies in France. I think she was targeted.

I told ya · 21-06-2021 10:07am

notahappycamper wrote: »

Yes, very poor that a day was wasted. This was a murder and the State Pathologist should have got his ass down there asap either by helicopter or Garda escort noting time was of the essence and the time of year. It was 1996, not 1896. The truth will never be known unless there is a confession at this stage.

From what I recall at the time, from reading various articles, there was no official State Pathologist, laboratory, support staff, etc. Prof Harbison was on a retainer to act when requested by An GS. This may be clarified in the series or in some article.

shivermetimber · 21-06-2021 10:19am

The amount of shenanigans by the guards is the most suspicious of all.

Delay with getting state pathologist to scene
Lack of evidence gathering and follow up on credible leads
Intimidation and coercion (Marie Farrell statements)
Bribery and fabrication (Leo Bolger and Martin Graham).
Fear mongering (telling locals we know he did it and will kill again)
Leaking of case info to press (evident in civil action)
Illegal recording of calls (bandon scandal / fennelly commission)
Loss of major evidence (eg the iron gate)
Loss of witness statements and suspect files.

corcaigh07 · 21-06-2021 10:24am

Haven't seen the last episode yet but the West Cork podcast is one of the best ever, this show was never going to compare.

Ian Bailey is the biggest narcissist but Jim Sheridan runs him close!

notahappycamper · 21-06-2021 10:34am

I told ya wrote: »

From what I recall at the time, from reading various articles, there was no official State Pathologist, laboratory, support staff, etc. Prof Harbison was on a retainer to act when requested by An GS. This may be clarified in the series or in some article.

He was the first State Pathologist in 1974. I believe (as per the FAQ on the State Pathologist website) in all cases that the Gardai inform the coroner and then the coroner requests the State Pathologist to perform a post mortem to determine the cause of death. It has been said that the scene was not properly preserved and the local Garda walked all over it. Bailey was known to have a violent history with women. Whether he did it or not will never be known.

Sadb · 21-06-2021 10:45am

I told ya wrote: »

Watched about 35 minutes of E1.

Couldn't believe the Guard from the Technical Bureau say that when they arrived in W Cork, the local Garda Station was closed for the night and they did not have a mobile phone. Whatever about not having an official mobile phone, I would be amassed if at least one of them did not have a personal mobile.

Also, left Dublin at 3.30pm and arrived in W Cork at 10pm. Yes. I accept 23 December traffic and no M7/M8, Jack Lynch Tunnel etc but effectively, a day wasted. Could they not have used a bit of top brass pressure/back channels and get the Aer Corps to helicopter some of them there with basic equipment.

Looks v poor from the outside, IMO for what it's worth.

In 1996?? I would doubt it. I didn’t know a single person that had a mobile phone in 1996. The fact that the first person called to the scene was a priest should tell you how far we’ve come since then!

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 10:49am

It's also took 6 hours to call murder squad down so they ended up in Christmas traffic after work. 6 hours is a long time to make a standard phonecall, no regional guards investigated murders of this type and the reasons for that are obvious from this investigation.

The missing job books and the tampered ones are very telling, not everyone would have access to them, they are unbelievably important in an investigation. I know guards retired who still keep rough copies and their private notes in case something ever comes back up (not strictly allowed I think but hard to destroy them too if the case is ongoing and your invested). It's interesting comparing this to the work done on the TG4 show Marú inár Measc, I was watching the Phyllis Murphy episode and the guards work on that was impeccable, 17 years before west cork and they had preserved DNA, chain of custody, all the notes, a real determination to get to the facts in the case and bring justice for the family........what happened in Schull wasn't the standard by any stretch, the GSOC investigation should have been a lot more damning

Pintman Paddy Losty · 21-06-2021 10:54am

Hi I watched the first two episodes on Sky Crime last night, how has everyone seen the whole series? Is there another way to watch it?

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 10:58am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Hi I watched the first two episodes on Sky Crime last night, how has everyone seen the whole series? Is there another way to watch it?

They are all up on the Nowtv app!

CorkGunJonny · 21-06-2021 11:03am

Hi all. I saw the first two episodes on sky crime last night. When are the other episodes to be aired? Thanks

Deeec · 21-06-2021 11:06am

CorkGunJonny wrote: »

Hi all. I saw the first two episodes on sky crime last night. When are the other episodes to be aired? Thanks

They are available for download on sky.

I told ya · 21-06-2021 11:10am

Sadb wrote: »

In 1996?? I would doubt it. I didn’t know a single person that had a mobile phone in 1996. The fact that the first person called to the scene was a priest should tell you how far we’ve come since then!

They were around Dublin in the late eighties. Granted, big awkward things, poor battery life and poor reception. Technology moves very fast. I had a mobile phone in 1992, a Motorolla brick but worked ok. By 1996 they were planning move to GSM phones with the 088 being phased out. Mobile phones were all the rage back then. Remember Denis O'Brien and ESAT.

adrian522 · 21-06-2021 11:14am

Sadb wrote: »

In 1996?? I would doubt it. I didn’t know a single person that had a mobile phone in 1996. The fact that the first person called to the scene was a priest should tell you how far we’ve come since then!

Yeah, in 1996 they were still on 088 numbers, GSM hadn't been rolled out yet, prepaid contracts didn't exist yet so I wouldn't doubt that no one involved had access to a mobile phone at that time.

It still took an unacceptably long time though.

gmisk · 21-06-2021 11:22am

Sadb wrote: »

In 1996?? I would doubt it. I didn’t know a single person that had a mobile phone in 1996. The fact that the first person called to the scene was a priest should tell you how far we’ve come since then!

I was 15....and I had a mobile in 1996.
This was in NI though.

Would agree about the priest!

I told ya · 21-06-2021 11:31am

The bit about the priest is strange.

You would have to assume that even the basic training in Templemore would have covered this. Respond to a call, arrive at the scene, a dead body with obvious injuries = call HQ immediately. Surely a half decent Sgt or Insp on the other end of the phone/radio would be able to issue orders, eg keep everyone away, keep the scene secure, don't give out any information, etc.

patobrien12 · 21-06-2021 11:37am

Nothing new really comes out which was a bit disappointing. Hopefully, Netflix tries to find new evidence. Would it not be worth testing the forensics again after all there has been a vast improvement in DNA since 1996.

silver2020 · 21-06-2021 11:42am

Sadb wrote: »

In 1996?? I would doubt it. I didn’t know a single person that had a mobile phone in 1996. The fact that the first person called to the scene was a priest should tell you how far we’ve come since then!

Huge numbers had mobiles in 1996, but coverage in rural parts was dreadful, so unlikely many in Schull would have had them.

A priest would still be the first person called in many rural areas today if someone was found dead.

Surprised that senior detectives did not have a mobile. But it would not have been much use in there anyway.

On the program itself, the gardai do not come out in a good light and that's based on what the gardai themselves were saying. They had made their minds up that the scratches on Bailey were from brambles and nothing would sway them from that - and irrational assumption which was only the start of a horrifically incompetent investigation.

They made their minds up and went and tried to find ways of making any evidence match their misconstrued thought process and steered witnesses into giving the answers that suited. Many years later their utter incompetence / corruption was shown by the GSOC investigation

Creamy Goodness · 21-06-2021 11:46am

the only evidence of the scratches on Ian's hands being a crude drawing - even for 1996 - it's completely laughable.

have watched 4/5 episodes and nothing really new so far if you've listened to West Cork but definitely a little more one-sided in comparison.

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 12:06pm

Has anyone read the book by Foster, Murder at Roaringwater.....half tempted to buy it but he seems to have made his mind up regardless.

Marcusm · 21-06-2021 12:27pm

I told ya wrote: »

They were around Dublin in the late eighties. Granted, big awkward things, poor battery life and poor reception. Technology moves very fast. I had a mobile phone in 1992, a Motorolla brick but worked ok. By 1996 they were planning move to GSM phones with the 088 being phased out. Mobile phones were all the rage back then. Remember Denis O'Brien and ESAT.

GSM phones were available by early 1995 but were still very uncommon. In Dec 1996, very few people had a mobile phone of any sort. It was my first Christmas trip back to Ireland from working in London and mine (which was no great shakes) attracted lots of attention amongst well paid Dublin professionals. Most gardai would have had service radios etc so would be less likely to have invested in a mobile phone. By 1998/9 all that would change.

coolisin · 21-06-2021 12:46pm

I told ya wrote: »

Watched about 35 minutes of E1.

Couldn't believe the Guard from the Technical Bureau say that when they arrived in W Cork, the local Garda Station was closed for the night and they did not have a mobile phone. Whatever about not having an official mobile phone, I would be amassed if at least one of them did not have a personal mobile.

Also, left Dublin at 3.30pm and arrived in W Cork at 10pm. Yes. I accept 23 December traffic and no M7/M8, Jack Lynch Tunnel etc but effectively, a day wasted. Could they not have used a bit of top brass pressure/back channels and get the Aer Corps to helicopter some of them there with basic equipment.

Looks v poor from the outside, IMO for what it's worth.

God I hated the traffic heading down the country in those days!!
No motorway after naas heading into kildare town, was portlaoise even bypassed in 96.
We lived between Borris in Ossray and Roscrea and it could take you 3-4 hours to get there from Dublin.

Had the Gaurds even got the helicopter and plane yet, I remember the big deal about them getting the helicopter in the late 90's

As for phones, i remember in 1995/96 down around dingle my uncles mobile phone barely working.
Mobile phones where more common in 97, 98

Only watched the first couple episodes so far, my wife knows nothing about it, I've listened to the West Cork Podcast.
So its all kind of "spoiled" on me. We are both in agreement that Jim Sheridan is not made for the narrator of a story.

Larsso30 · 21-06-2021 1:39pm

Just starting the last episode.

Great to see location and imagery of house etc and see Bailey react on camera But so far I've seen nothing new at all, West Cork still surprior for me.

Unless the episode takes a dramatic turn there is no other viable suspect offered here. Bailey is a train wreck, I feel so sorry for his partner who is living with an alcoholic narcissistic gob****e.

I still have major questions about the garda and their absolute failure in this case and I am no closer to saying it was Bailey than I was before. His wearabouts that night and his reluctance to discuss his alibi in start of the last episode is the only thing I can say makes it possible to be him. There is nothing else only hearsay and that's because of the pathetic job done by the garda

Really conflicted about Bailey and his guilt. He is not a good person that is certain but really can't believe this went to trial in France

Butson · 21-06-2021 1:53pm

Watched the first 2 episodes, thought it was good. Not sure why Sheridan is including himself so much. West Cork does look stunning though.

Worth bearing in mind that this is for a UK audience, 99% of which have never heard of the case.

Cona44 · 21-06-2021 1:56pm

Ive always said that the answer in this case is most likely the simplest one. To often, we look for far flung theories about what may have happened and this gets gradually worse as time goes on.

For me, its quite simple. Whoever did this, had to know the area well. On top of that, if it was a local they would have had marks to the body in some form. Bailey was a known vicious, womaniser who was close to killing his own partner.
He was wearing the long dark black jacket that all of a sudden went missing as part of a bonfire in the following days. His hands were destroyed in cuts as well as a nick to the face.

In my opinion, its a bit far fetched for all the above to be a coincidence. The guards knew this too as well as many locals. But without any DNA evidence they knew they would have to prove it by other means. Marie Farrell was the absolute bombshell though. I cannot figure out why she inserted herself into this case at all. I can only guess she wanted a bit of fame which ultimately backfired on her.

I think she probably did see Bailey on Ceal Fada bridge that night. The rest seemed to be lies forced out of her by gardai. Who was in the car with her though and why would she not release the info. She should have been arrested and prosecuted for not supplying this info.

jones · 21-06-2021 2:12pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Ive always said that the answer in this case is most likely the simplest one. To often, we look for far flung theories about what may have happened and this gets gradually worse as time goes on.

For me, its quite simple. Whoever did this, had to know the area well. On top of that, if it was a local they would have had marks to the body in some form. Bailey was a known vicious, womaniser who was close to killing his own partner.
He was wearing the long dark black jacket that all of a sudden went missing as part of a bonfire in the following days. His hands were destroyed in cuts as well as a nick to the face.

In my opinion, its a bit far fetched for all the above to be a coincidence. The guards knew this too as well as many locals. But without any DNA evidence they knew they would have to prove it by other means. Marie Farrell was the absolute bombshell though. I cannot figure out why she inserted herself into this case at all. I can only guess she wanted a bit of fame which ultimately backfired on her.

I think she probably did see Bailey on Ceal Fada bridge that night. The rest seemed to be lies forced out of her by gardai. Who was in the car with her though and why would she not release the info. She should have been arrested and prosecuted for not supplying this info.

Totally agree with the above. To my mind Bailey is guilty as sin and a total narcissist with a known history of violence - it wouldn't surprise me if he admits to it on his deathbed (even if he didn't do it) just to get one last bit of attention. But come on who the feck did this if not him? The phantom French dude? Not likely.

I think the Gardai all 'knew' it was him too and they definitely acted strangely themselves in trying to get him convicted but i think it all came from trying to get their man. The less said about Marie Farrell the better, absolute train crash of a person IMO and definitely knows more than she's saying. None of her story makes sense at all even taking into account the affair.

I haven't actually watched this yet but will start tonight but finished west Cork recently and loved it.

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 2:12pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Ive always said that the answer in this case is most likely the simplest one. To often, we look for far flung theories about what may have happened and this gets gradually worse as time goes on.

For me, its quite simple. Whoever did this, had to know the area well. On top of that, if it was a local they would have had marks to the body in some form. Bailey was a known vicious, womaniser who was close to killing his own partner.
He was wearing the long dark black jacket that all of a sudden went missing as part of a bonfire in the following days. His hands were destroyed in cuts as well as a nick to the face.

In my opinion, its a bit far fetched for all the above to be a coincidence. The guards knew this too as well as many locals. But without any DNA evidence they knew they would have to prove it by other means. Marie Farrell was the absolute bombshell though. I cannot figure out why she inserted herself into this case at all. I can only guess she wanted a bit of fame which ultimately backfired on her.

I think she probably did see Bailey on Ceal Fada bridge that night. The rest seemed to be lies forced out of her by gardai. Who was in the car with her though and why would she not release the info. She should have been arrested and prosecuted for not supplying this info.

The coat was found, and processed. Nothing found on it. Not a speck of blood on a coat with below freezing temp outside.

Marie F was with a married man that night, apparently he has passed away since which is why she came forward with the truth. But I'd agree, with the tooing and froing I'd be suspicious of anything she said.

The burden of proof is high in Ireland, and rightly so. Being a strange person who is violent when drunk would damn 10% of men his age in the country, a sad indictment of our country but we can't pin every murder on the local eccentric without actual evidence. Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't but the local guards made damn sure the truth would be hard to find.

Munstergirl854 · 21-06-2021 2:21pm

Has anyone heard the theory about the local married guard who is now deceased?
Violent temper with a history of affairs...

I heard it years ago but if someone local could add more detail that would be great.

Apologies if it has been mentioned I havnt read this thread or watched doc yet.

am_zarathustra · 21-06-2021 3:38pm

I've heard that one too, again from a local but I'd know cases in my own locality with odd stories surrounding them that have grown legs so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. It might explain a lot of the missing bits from the case, it's a cover up or the most shambolic investigation I've even seen.

Radio5 · 21-06-2021 4:11pm

Watched the 1st episode last night. Was surprised to learn that at least 1 of the houses close to Sophie's house was occupied. I thought they were holiday homes which were empty at that time of year. Strange that those people heard nothing given their proximity.
The murderer clearly knew the area well, it didn't look like somewhere you'd be just passing by chance and you'd need to know your way out. Given the location, there weren't likely to be too many witnesses out and about.

I doubt that anyone will ever be found guilty at this stage. Forensic evidence was crucial and that seems to have been one of many failings in the investigation.

There was a lot of hyped up Hollywood style even in 1 episode, with Jim at the centre of it. I'm not sure what bearing the Civil War had on the whole thing. Beal na mBlath is a tidy step from Toormore, it's not as if it's just down the road. I guess all of this and the endless landscape / coastal shots are for the UK/US audience.

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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