Grizzly 45 wrote: »

"Automatic pistol" is an old term from the turn of the last century when they started showing up on the market in sales literature."Colt's automatic pistol" "Webleys automatic pistol" etc So the terminology stuck,while mechanically incorrect it has become a common usage term for SEMI automatic handguns.

Agreed. Fully understand how it came about in the days where everything else was manual.

Depends on who you talk to...Say a" machine gun" to anyone in the military they think things like a Browning 50 cal,a M60 a GPMG. Belt fed, possible crew serviced weapon. They don't think of their individual service rifle as such .
Say it to a civilian, they think anything that goes BRRRRTTT!!

Agreed.
I consider "machine gun" to be something a dedicated gunner uses.

SMG>Assault Rifle>Battle Rifle>Machine Gun*

(*and even that is overly simplistic, as some light machine guns will use intermediate rifle rounds like an assaut rifle, such as the M248)

But kids playing with toys, or in the movies, machine gun is a generic terms for rapid fire firearm or any thing that goes BRRRTTTTT as you saying.

It might become a machine carbine first,then be shrunk further to a pistol.

Agreed.

Not really,a pistol is still considered a firearm you can fire with one hand.
Which you can do with the micro machine pistols. Although highly NOT recommended.

Well, that might depend on how big your hands are

Best way to describe this is to have a look at the UZI family of guns.

Starts with the well known UZI "machine pistol" [because of its OAL length it is more a machine carbine with an attached buttstock], then we have under that the Mini Uzi.Which is more of a machine pistol. Select fire,pistol sized with a folding stock if desired, and then the micro Uzi. Totally pistol sized select-fire ,and no buttstock,and short-lived in sales.

Good example.

Because like most of these select-fire pistol designs, they are uncontrollable without a lot of practice and some sort of stock.Which makes them a poor submachine gun and destroys their supposed main function of being a concealable or small space saving weapon with select fire capability.You lose those 2 prerequisites once you need to have a stock on the gun.

Agreed.I've seen that video of the guy shooting his hand with a select-fire pistol at the range.

A stock seems a minimum requirement for effective use. I'm not sure about those folding stocks that fold over the top of the firearm (like a mac-10).
They seem most suited to drive-bys and movies.

Mellor wrote: »

Well, that might depend on how big your hands are

Rather large in my case,and it's not recommendable.:eek::D

A stock seems a minimum requirement for effective use. I'm not sure about those folding stocks that fold over the top of the firearm (like a mac-10).
They seem most suited to drive-bys and movies

.

The MAC is a telescoping buttstock..Thinking of the Czech Skorpion? Which isn't too bad a design altogether for a biggish micro machine pistol.Trouble is with those folders is the recoil makes them flex like hell when fired and that transfers into ouch and inaccuracy .

The thing is for micros because of their ridiculous high rate of fire and light weight you have nothing to grip to make sure they stay on target after the first 2 shots,otherwise you end up sending a lot of lead skywards.:D
Think the best solution still is the buttstock /holster combination like the Mauser or Stechkin or HK VP

I put it down to a lot of it being people being on or off their meds as well as the appalling mental health and lassitude that head doctors prescribe and then monkey around peoples doses.
Add into that toxic soup,normal kids growing up and being medicated for "troublesome behaviour" and being" counselled" by someone with an agenda.
Everyone expects teens to be rebellious or contrarian when you are growing up, puberty and hormones kick in and tart fuking about with their kids minds.Normal biological process.
What is not normal is to decide to go and modify that process by adding mood-altering or mind-altering medication because as a parent "cant cope" or it has been diagnosed by some school official as "disruptive behaviour"

Throw that into those jungles that Americans call "high schools" and now universities with their intolerances and cancel cultures both in their social aspects and teaching[or lack off], bullying that used to end at the school gates,but now follows you home on your social media and I wouldn't be surprised some people decide to start shooting ...

Why don't we have these issues here...Yet. Is simple.We don't run to our head shrinkers with ourselves or our kids at every little given little crisis. Johnny covering his bedroom walls with Swastikas and saying Adolf was a great lad,or Janie moping up in her room pussing over some young fellah,or how the state of the oceans are in... We throw our eyes to heaven and get on with it..We don't rush them off to Dr Nutter to be filled up with Prozac.

Adults going postal in the workplace. Job stresses and your lifestyle in the US is on a completely different level to what we have here in Ireland.
Losing your job over there is a worse situation than over here. Welfare won't carry you as much as it will here,and if you are fired,it can nullify your unemployment benefits as well plus it nullifies any medical or dental or other plans your company had in position for your families wellbeing.
Most Americans are something like 2to3 times their annual salary in debt as well with monthly repayments on everything. So miss one of those and your credit rating starts to go into a tailspin, the repo guys are at the door for the car, and any further the bank foreclosed on your mortgage. God help you too if you are divorced and have to make alimony payments too...Unlike here, it's a thing over there that can badly screw you up too missing those.

Now, add to that you have an asshole boss, who has been on your case since day one, and maybe a clique of fellow assholes who are making life miserable for whatever reason, and finally, you are called in to be told you are fired or being let go for whatever reason...
Lights out! !Thank you and good night!! Your life is now in terminal mess mode!! So you might just decide to take these fine specimens of humanity with you on that last trip,as you have nothing left to lose?

Cass wrote: »

I don't doubt it.

I've no data to back this up and perhaps with the lack of social media it did occur but wasn't as widely reported, however when i was younger it seemed if you had a problem there was a fist fight and that was the end of it. Nobody went for guns, knives, or other weapons.

I'm not so naïve to think that everything was Rose coloured glasses and perhaps i was sheltered from the extent of the violence even back then and could be talking through my backside.

One thing i would stand over is that things have escalated. Youngsters carrying these weapons and fully prepared to use them. The rise in "mass" events. IOW its not good enough that someone wants to hurt a particular person but they set out to hurt or kill anyone around them (whether known to them or not).

I don't know, i really don't.

I have to agree, i remember having scuffles with other lads at school. There would be an issue threats made from both sides, a two-dig scuffle in the park on the way home and that was the end of it. A normal part of growing up i reckon.

The father used to say that when he was growing up in the 40's and 50's, if there was a murder, it would be on the front page of every newspaper in the country, often for over a week. Now its a crime so common, it doesn't get much notice at all.

Thats all down to drugs, the people who take them stealing to feed a habit, and the low-life that sell them killing anyone who, in the slightest threatens them and their massive profits.

Cass wrote: »

Rates of teenage metal health issues are on the rise and still rising over the last decade. Depression up by 52%, anxiety over 25%, general mental health issues overall up by 15%.

There is no break from the world. I know its not as simple as blaming one thing or pointing to one issue and saying "if we solve that it'll all be better", nor am I advocating for a return to the "chin up" attitude of 30+ years ago. Those bottled up issues are as bad and why some adults, middle aged and over, also behave/act as they do.

• Social media
• Over medicating
• Fanaticism (of any kind)
• Indoctrination of ideology (via schools, social media, etc)
• The sense of entitlement
• The media (for pushing any agenda which has real world effects)
• Politicians for pandering to "crazes"
• Arrogance (kids thinking they know it all at 18-25 and refusing to engage in discussion)
• One parent homes
• Social welfare system
• Lack of identity (both personal and nationally)

These, for me, are just some of the causes of what is going on today. I'm not looking for everyone to "toe the line" especially my line of thinking/beliefs, but it has gone from believe what you will to believe what we tell you to or you're wrong, a fascist, racist, etc. IOW extremes both ideological and morally.

We've have the "you can't say that" decades ago, then it was the P.C. brigade, then millennials, then the woke, now Gen Z (i think), and of course cancel culture. IOW if you don't like it or believe as someone else does end them.

I can only hope it goes as it came like the other fads did.

A lot of these kids don't even know what they are talking about or against. An effort made to talk to them and what they object to gets you either abuse or bovine stares

Mellor wrote: »

But that's entirely separate to the decision to no use his name which civdef refereed to.

I didn't read his manifesto, but I was under the impression that it was a racist, white supremacist type thing. Never heard about the gun control part

He described himself as an eco anarchist[Whatever the Hell that is]
Copy included for your perusal.

NOTE.Im not advocating or promoting these idiots views."You of course being all loftier creations of the great Pumpkin are safe to entrust adult material to to form your own opinions on this matter.

<MOD SNIP>

Its like a false flag operation.A anarcho leftie Aussie pretending to be extreme right wing in attacking a mosque that preaches jihad,but with a plan to start a race war and get gun confiscation going in NZ... While blathering on about the environment and every other conspiracy theory...One seriously fuked up dude!:mad:

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

ng the mosque's role in radicalizing those terrorists who went to fight for ISIS. Let's not forget that we're not untouched by Islamic terrorism here too, I live very close to Jihadi Jane and her cronies, so that really put's into perspective the threat of Islam.

Or that a few of the London bridge killers were fed ,watered and financed from an apartment in Limerick...Or that one of our own ,Kahlid Kelly "went all over Syria" with his kamikaze car bomb.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Or that a few of the London bridge killers were fed ,watered and financed from an apartment in Limerick...Or that one of our own ,Kahlid Kelly "went all over Syria" with his kamikaze car bomb.

Yeah, scary to think they're using Ireland as a base of operations and look how that worked out for Belgium. It's only a matter of time before they target us. I was trying to remember what his name was, I saw a documentary on him a few years ago. Didn't he blow himself up for a propaganda video?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

IOW just as much a dipsht belief as an anarchist...

To be honest Griz, it’s quite hard to read this post. You seem to be struggling with your formatting of the quote tags.

Fascism may be just as dipsht anarchism. But they are on opposite ends of the left-right spectrum.
It’s a rather convenient time to mix up your left and right wing.
To be blunt, it doesn’t look like a genuine mistake.

To be clear, I don’t think your publicly supporting those actions or the NZ gunman. And I agree that some people have been radicalised through Islam - whether in person, online etc. But I don’t think that justifys making up any old sht that might stick. That’s literally how extremists groups/websites behave.

I don’t think I that pointing out these errors are nitpicking. The guy said said he was a communist, then an anarchist, then a libertarian, and now a fascism. You chose to cherry pick bits that suited your agenda. I think that’s a bit telling.

As the banning guns in NZ. He seams fully aware that was an outcome. But it also reads like he wants to split the states on the 2ndA. Start a race war. More deaths basically. Forcing the gun control issue is a means to achieve those deaths. Not the end goal.
As Cass said, the control ball was already rolling in NZ. Much like Oz after the Port Arthur attack.