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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #3512
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So their deaths don’t matter?

    Ah come on...

    We are on a thread that discusses such things, let's be adult about it!


  • #3513
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,449 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Not at all, I'll be taking a vaccine as soon as I can.

    I do note however, the mysterious absence of any recognized therapeutics....

    Now, do you believe that this is the first corona virus to ever rip through the Irish people? It's a simple question.

    Hmmmmmmmmm.

    To quote your good self.
    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Typical double speak...predictable really.


  • #3514
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,449 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    NPHET recommendation no indoor dining in pubs, restaurants, cafes before 5th of July

    No deviation.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117264499&postcount=3060

    Wouldn't surprise me if the cabinet moved it to the 1st.


  • #3515
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    charlie14 wrote: »
    In all that time I cannot remember you, or indeed anyone else, who has put forward a mathematical formula for calculating IFR.
    Why is that ?

    There is no formula of course and I'm not belittling your stance as such. But it must stand to reason that there is an unknown number of undetected infections. It has to be.


  • #3516
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,228 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Guess i wont be going to the 3Arena to see concert this year


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  • #3517
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there have been more than one Corona Virus, which does indicate the very strong possibility of a degree of herd immunity, does it not?

    IT's not that I think they are all the same, it's that we've been infected by similar, all influenza viruses aren't the same, that much we know...so how did we treat the serious cases of previous Corona Viruses? And why can't we treat this one with those medicines?

    There may well be rational explanations for that by the way...but I'll need a little more than what you just mentioned!

    The family of coronaviruses are as varied as the entire animal kingdom genetically. There are 7 in total that have been known to infect humans and lots more among other species. The 7 are 4 endemic viruses which cause mild illness in all but the rarest cases, SARS, MERS and Covid. As with viruses in general the most effective therapeutics are managing symptoms through paracetamol or similar while allowing the immune system do its business. And vaccines are by far and away the most effective measure we have ever had to prevent the most serious effects of viruses.


  • #3518
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Boggles wrote: »
    No deviation.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117264499&postcount=3060

    Wouldn't surprise me if the cabinet moved it to the 1st.

    Nope you called that right in fairness

    For the sake of 4 days they might just go with NPHET advice


  • #3519
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,449 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Nope you called that right in fairness

    For the sake of 4 days they might just go with NPHET advice

    NPHET advised 7th June for hotels.

    Cabinet moved it to the 2nd.


  • #3520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Ah come on...

    We are on a thread that discusses such things, let's be adult about it!

    Well it just seems like you were suggesting that the ifr of the virus should for some reason only be calculated after excluding everyone who may have a pre existing condition


  • #3521
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The family of coronaviruses are as varied as the entire animal kingdom genetically. There are 7 in total that have been known to infect humans and lots more among other species. The 7 are 4 endemic viruses which cause mild illness in all but the rarest cases, SARS, MERS and Covid. As with viruses in general the most effective therapeutics are managing symptoms through paracetamol or similar while allowing the immune system do its business. And vaccines are by far and away the most effective measure we have ever had to prevent the most serious effects of viruses.

    Thanks, I know a little more about Flu's than I do about Corona Viruses...so that helps.

    I guess my point is, we have abandoned the most recognized methods of managing a viral infection (mentioned above) for a very unnatural method that is causing a massive health crisis separate to the virus....who knew we'd have multiple vaccines so fast when we locked down last March?


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  • #3522
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,105 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Here's a mad thought now, hold on for a second, maybe just maybe, by the time July comes we'll have around 70% with 1 dose and by the end of the month of July an higher percentage fully vaccinated. Cases will have reduced down even more than now and we can unwind even more restrictions bit by bit until there's few (masks maybe) to none ... Just a mad thought really

    Oh and the indoor hospitality guidelines are subject to review before July, plenty can change in the space of a few weeks.

    I'm coming at this from experience in the
    Hospitality SECTOR.

    I think the point is that regardless of Vacinnes or indeed reduced case numbers, the Hospitality sector will take a very, very long time to recover and I believe its changed, maybe not forever but certainly for the foreseeable future.

    Whatever about guideline most of which are just bizzare, anything that restricts bums on seats or in anyway reduces business levels will have a serious impact, this is well proven already.

    There's serious consumer hesistancy also to consider, I can not see the pent up demand (god awful expression) meaning people will either book in droves or return to indoor dining easily, large bars, hotels with space have some chance but restaurants by their very nature are intimate spaces.

    The outdoor concept is just ludicrous, our climate doesn't facilitate this concept. Some of the spaces developed we've all seen on silly early evening news bulletins will in no way help a restaurant survive, it may help pubs but Not Restaurants.

    We hear stories of staff refusing to return to work (nonsense of course) but no one explaining that a reduction in a restaurants ability to trade, equals an automatic reduction in actual staff required, its actually not rocket science. This aside from the fact 1000"s of employees have had enough and gone elsewhere (if they were lucky to find something to go too)

    The biggest elephant in the room is massive rental debts owed, anyone who thinks landlord won't be calling (and not for bookings) the minute restaurants re open is deluded. I personally know a number of businesses who have been unable to pay rent for over a year. This debt has not gone away, won't be waived etc. Yes some have insurance but by all accounts very few or some still fighting.

    So there's little or no prospect of profitability for months, Hesistancy, Reductions in abilities to trade, reductions in real employment and substantial Debts to deal with.

    It's not going to be pretty, Pent up demand my A***, more like pent up demand for rent owed. I'm just happy I left the industry 8 years ago.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #3523
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well it just seems like you were suggesting that the ifr of the virus should for some reason only be calculated after excluding everyone who may have a pre existing condition

    No I am not, but excluding them isn't exactly giving us the full picture now is it?

    I can only sound cold saying this, and I do regret it if anyone reading this has been directly affected as I am aware that the virus can be quiet vicious and indiscriminate, but people that fall into that vulnerable category will succumb to any viral infection, and people in that category will always succumb to a seasons viral infection, we can't keep doing the damage we are doing to all facets of our society.


  • #3524
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57224635


    Pathetic , borders closed in Australia for another year - at least!!!

    "Just happy to be safe" - Shuuuut the fuuuq up!!!!!


    Safe from this deadly deadly deadly virus (99.98% survivability rate), meanwhile 40,000 Australians aren't allowed home.


  • #3525
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    It is all guesswork on infection rates, nobody in their right mind believes the state (or any state) has managed to log every single case, that is absurd.

    Just as absurd as counting as cases people who don't even register so much as a sniffle...but can be used as a tool to play up the virus.

    You do realise don`t you that it`s guesswork that has been used by those attempting to sell the myth that natural herd immunity is a viable alternative to restrictions

    Would you not see that as unethical, disingenuous and dangerous from people that are supposedly experts in the field and some who are still supporting their nonsense ?


  • #3526
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    I'm coming at this from experience in the
    Hospitality SECTOR.

    I think the point is that regardless of Vacinnes or indeed reduced case numbers, the Hospitality sector will take a very, very long time to recover and I believe its changed, maybe not forever but certainly for the foreseeable future.

    Whatever about guideline most of which are just bizzare, anything that restricts bums on seats or in anyway reduces business levels will have a serious impact, this is well proven already.

    There's serious consumer hesistancy also to consider, I can not see the pent up demand (god awful expression) meaning people will either book in droves or return to indoor dining easily, large bars, hotels with space have some chance but restaurants by their very nature are intimate spaces.

    The outdoor concept is just ludicrous, our climate doesn't facilitate this concept. Some of the spaces developed we've all seen on silly early evening news bulletins will in no way help a restaurant survive, it may help pubs but Not Restaurants.

    We hear stories of staff refusing to return to work (nonsense of course) but no one explaining that a reduction in a restaurants ability to trade, equals an automatic reduction in actual staff required, its actually not rocket science. This aside from the fact 1000"s of employees have had enough and gone elsewhere (if they were lucky to find something to go too)

    The biggest elephant in the room is massive rental debts owed, anyone who thinks landlord won't be calling (and not for bookings) the minute restaurants re open is deluded. I personally know a number of businesses who have been unable to pay rent for over a year. This debt has not gone away, won't be waived etc. Yes some have insurance but by all accounts very few or some still fighting.

    So there's little or no prospect of profitability for months, Hesistancy, Reductions in abilities to trade, reductions in real employment and substantial Debts to deal with.

    It's not going to be pretty, Pent up demand my A***, more like pent up demand for rent owed. I'm just happy I left the industry 8 years ago.

    It is also my understanding that the six week Christmas period of jam packed pubs goes a long way to keeping many pubs going through the quieter months.

    I'd have to agree with your prognosis....it's going to get messy.


  • #3527
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Guess i wont be going to the 3Arena to see concert this year

    Forget the way?


  • #3528
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    charlie14 wrote: »
    You do realise don`t you that it`s guesswork that has been used by those attempting to sell the myth that natural herd immunity is a viable alternative to restrictions

    Would you not see that as unethical, disingenuous and dangerous from people that are supposedly experts in the field and some who are still supporting their nonsense ?

    Look, as am amateur trying to understand how we find ourselves at this point I can't really say for sure what my position is on herd immunity.

    But it is also another leap we all have to make to believe that we have no collective community immunity either given that we have seen viruses like this before...or that our own immune systems can't cope with a virus in a world that is wall to wall virus of similar and different natures.

    I look at the demographic of the people who have succumb to this virus and it is telling us what it is!!!


  • #3529
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Thanks, I know a little more about Flu's than I do about Corona Viruses...so that helps.

    I guess my point is, we have abandoned the most recognized methods of managing a viral infection (mentioned above) for a very unnatural method that is causing a massive health crisis separate to the virus....who knew we'd have multiple vaccines so fast when we locked down last March?

    Avoiding contact with potentially infected people is the oldest method of preventing infectious disease


  • #3530
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,105 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    It is also my understanding that the six week Christmas period of jam packed pubs goes a long way to keeping many pubs going through the quieter months.

    I'd have to agree with your prognosis....it's going to get messy.

    I would say not necessarily with city, large town locations who have all year round trade but certainly Christmas /new year eve trade absolutely crucial.

    My real concern is the Tourist sector, Seasonal hospitality etc, they have a double whammy, the points I raised earlier but also the absence of any foreign visitors, Domestic Tourism will not on the slightest save them this year, its far to late.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #3531
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,228 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    Forget the way?

    Prob will by the time i go back there


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  • #3532
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Sobit1964 wrote: »
    If dividing two numbers which have demonstrably been superseded, gives you a blanket to help you fall asleep at night - then sweet dreams.

    Raind is using the big boy number, the same as the scientists and politicians are now using. Its time to move on from March/April 2020.

    No it`s an example of two extremes of using assumed infection rates that were both incorrect.

    Far as I`m concerned IFR is a complete irrelevance that has no discernible use when dealing with this virus.
    Perhaps you can give me some examples where it has ?


  • #3533
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    charlie14 wrote: »
    No it`s an example of two extremes of using assumed infection rates that were both incorrect.

    Far as I`m concerned IFR is a complete irrelevance that has no discernible use when dealing with this virus.
    Perhaps you can give me some examples where it has ?

    IFR is very relevant. It was always known, even in the earliest days, that the ifr was less than originally inferred through detections alone. It was an open question as to whether the actual infection rates were multiples of what we detected. If the fir had been closer to 0.2% we would be close to population immunity now in Europe


  • #3534
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    paddyisreal wrote: »
    30k in croke park in August with these clowns in charge you must be having a laugh. I heard from a good source Indoor dining will be August now. This government are the most risk adverse bunch of idiots I have ever seen

    Hmmmm.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0527/1224144-coronavirus-ireland/


  • #3535
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    5,000 at Croke Park in August. Mother of jaysis. And you get the impression that if they had it their way and there was no pressure on, NPHET would still want behind closed doors sport.

    The UK who are generally 1 month ahead of us are looking for full stadiums next month.

    I hope the GAA give them the F-U and host the All-Ireland finals in the North.


  • #3536
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    5,000 at Croke Park in August. Mother of jaysis. And you get the impression that if they had it their way and there was no pressure on, NPHET would still want behind closed doors sport.

    The UK who are generally 1 month ahead of us are looking for full stadiums next month.

    I hope the GAA give them the F-U and host the All-Ireland finals in the North.

    August is a while away yet. Like everything it's all subject to change. If everything is all good with the test events in June & July then the limits will be raised no doubt about that. You can't give absolute certainty for August now, it's not possible. Give an inital number and raise it accordingly


  • #3537
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,228 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    5,000 at Croke Park in August. Mother of jaysis. And you get the impression that if they had it their way and there was no pressure on, NPHET would still want behind closed doors sport.

    The UK who are generally 1 month ahead of us are looking for full stadiums next month.

    I hope the GAA give them the F-U and host the All-Ireland finals in the North.

    That wont happen but its a little frustrating as concerts will be cancelled esp with Arenas in the UK been able to host full capacity shows


  • #3538
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    paddyisreal wrote: »
    30k in croke park in August with these clowns in charge you must be having a laugh. I heard from a good source Indoor dining will be August now. This government are the most risk adverse bunch of idiots I have ever seen
    hynesie08 wrote: »
    No you didn't
    paddyisreal wrote: »
    Oh yes I did, we will see....
    hynesie08 wrote: »
    We will yeah, I'll take the high ground and let you blame the source when it's proven to be bollocks.


    I'm a man of my word, your "source" is a lying ****ehawk


  • #3539
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    5,000 at Croke Park in August. Mother of jaysis. And you get the impression that if they had it their way and there was no pressure on, NPHET would still want behind closed doors sport.

    The UK who are generally 1 month ahead of us are looking for full stadiums next month.

    I hope the GAA give them the F-U and host the All-Ireland finals in the North.

    An almost entirely positive article on restrictions and surprise surprise, everyone focusing on the one negative element.

    Supposedly those who see a rationale for not having an immediate free for all are the doom mongers


  • #3540
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    August is a while away yet. Like everything it's all subject to change. If everything is all good with the test events in June & July then the limits will be raised no doubt about that.

    Why do they need Test Events? There have been test events all over the world. The events have been tested. The Irish "Test Events" are just PR outings and putting off normality for longer.


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  • #3541
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Why do they need Test Events? There have been test events all over the world. The events have been tested. The Irish "Test Events" are just PR outings and putting off normality for longer.

    So why did all these other countries have test events? Surely after one successful test everything should have just opened?


This discussion has been closed.
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