Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

zambrotta11 · 11-05-2021 03:22PM

Marcusm wrote: »

I don’t think there are any non-U.K. departures or arrivals at either Belfast airport at the moment.

You can get a connecting flight through a GB airport so the first time you see a border guard is Belfast.
Also if you "leave" the airport in London, or anywhere else in GB, to go back in and straight onto another flight, you have to fill in the passenger locator form to enter England and it is the exact same form as NI so the same problem seems to apply again.

vasis1 · 11-05-2021 03:35PM

A question in relation to court summons for not paying the fines.

If the hearing happens after the temporary restrictions are lifted, can the court still find one to be guilty?

What is the waiting time for the court hearings? Weeks? Months?

11-05-2021 03:46PM

vasis1 wrote: »

A question in relation to court summons for not paying the fines.

If the hearing happens after the temporary restrictions are lifted, can the court still find one to be guilty?

What is the waiting time for the court hearings? Weeks? Months?

Yes of course, so I suggest you pay the fine :P

Marcusm · 11-05-2021 03:47PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I don't understand how it can be costing you more but yet you can't afford the fine. That's your business though. The reality is you can travel, you have made the decision not too after weighing the options up. That's all I said, that people can still travel. The other user, for some reason couldn't grasp that.

If you are so confident that the eu will strike it down I assume you made the complaint? Your costs would almost certainly be covered following your victory in a review.

And yes, the change was frustrating

I cannot afford to have to disclose being fined by a governmental authority! It’s not about the money. Not all reputational/regulatory matters are as clear as Garda vetting, ie no criminal convictions. Some of us have to be purer than Caesar’s wife! The EU aspect would never be dealt with in a reasonable period of time. Any judicial review would likewise not get an urgent hearing. If a post even complaint is made, the fines might have to be returned but that doesn’t result in a vindication of my rights after the event.

Marcusm · 11-05-2021 03:49PM

zambrotta11 wrote: »

You can get a connecting flight through a GB airport so the first time you see a border guard is Belfast.
Also if you "leave" the airport in London, or anywhere else in GB, to go back in and straight onto another flight, you have to fill in the passenger locator form to enter England and it is the exact same form as NI so the same problem seems to apply again.

Or do MHQ in London which is what will happen for those stating they are off to Belfast. Some EU counties (e.g. Portugal) will not admit people flying via the U.K. except for “essential” reasons which is confined mostly to returning residents. Belfast is not a panacea for many.

vasis1 · 11-05-2021 03:55PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yes of course, so I suggest you pay the fine :P

In the court, in case the conditions set in the law were met, e.g. had the dental appointment, and even proof of attending, would there be any reason for the judge to find one guilty, still?

zambrotta11 · 11-05-2021 04:05PM

Marcusm wrote: »

Or do MHQ in London which is what will happen for those stating they are off to Belfast. Some EU counties (e.g. Portugal) will not admit people flying via the U.K. except for “essential” reasons which is confined mostly to returning residents. Belfast is not a panacea for many.

MHQ is not required for Amber countries and the UK government website says you can leave your home quarantine to leave England.

If you’re travelling to England for less than 10 days, you will need to quarantine for the whole of your stay. You must travel directly to your place of quarantine when you arrive in England and directly from your place of quarantine to the port or airport when you leave. You should follow safer travel guidance and avoid public transport if possible.

So going through border control to go back into the airport to get on another flight is allowed.
The biggest issue that I found that I didn't realise was that a £200 test kit has to be purchased to complete the passenger locator form unless you have a job that exempts you.
Maybe there is a work around people are doing that I have missed but if this is the case it does not seem so cheap.

Van.Bosch · 11-05-2021 04:39PM

Lumen wrote: »

Simple solution: split the family in two.

Wife says: we're travelling to meet their father. We're currently separated.
Husband says: we're travelling to meet their mother. We're currently separated.

:pac:

If lying to the guards is acceptable, just buy a 39.99 flight to Donegal. Present this boarding pass to questioning gardai, inter county travel is allowed so no issues. Throw it in the bin after that and head wherever you want with your real boarding pass. (Guards at the departure gate would still be an issue)!

11-05-2021 04:45PM

Marcusm wrote: »

I cannot afford to have to disclose being fined by a governmental authority! It’s not about the money. Not all reputational/regulatory matters are as clear as Garda vetting, ie no criminal convictions. Some of us have to be purer than Caesar’s wife! The EU aspect would never be dealt with in a reasonable period of time. Any judicial review would likewise not get an urgent hearing. If a post even complaint is made, the fines might have to be returned but that doesn’t result in a vindication of my rights after the event.

as I said, thats your personal business.

Corholio · 11-05-2021 04:46PM

zambrotta11 wrote: »

MHQ is not required for Amber countries and the UK government website says you can leave your home quarantine to leave England.

So going through border control to go back into the airport to get on another flight is allowed.
The biggest issue that I found that I didn't realise was that a £200 test kit has to be purchased to complete the passenger locator form unless you have a job that exempts you.
Maybe there is a work around people are doing that I have missed but if this is the case it does not seem so cheap.

If you're not leaving the airport you wouldn't need the test kit though right, isn't it only for arriving into the UK staying longer for 24hr?

11-05-2021 04:48PM

vasis1 wrote: »

In the court, in case the conditions set in the law were met, e.g. had the dental appointment, and even proof of attending, would there be any reason for the judge to find one guilty, still?

My reading would be no but judges arent subject my agreement in their decisions. You could always appeal

11-05-2021 04:49PM

Corholio wrote: »

If you're not leaving the airport you wouldn't need the test kit though right, isn't it only for arriving into the UK staying longer for 24hr?

But you would be leaving the airport to travel down from Belfast.

Lumen · 11-05-2021 04:54PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

If lying to the guards is acceptable, just buy a 39.99 flight to Donegal. Present this boarding pass to questioning gardai, inter county travel is allowed so no issues. Throw it in the bin after that and head wherever you want with your real boarding pass. (Guards at the departure gate would still be an issue)!

There was no lie! I chose the words very carefully.

normanoffside · 11-05-2021 05:02PM

Looks like we'll be able to travel freely to the UK this summer but they'll make everywhere else awkward

https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1392159552037167108

stephenjmcd · 11-05-2021 05:09PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Looks like we'll be able to travel freely to the UK this summer but they'll make everywhere else awkward

https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1392159552037167108

Well it makes sense as the article states because of the travel situation between NI & UK from June, therefore trying to stop travel between Ireland and UK becomes defunct as it mentions.

As for Europe that'll follow when the passport scheme is introduced. We're very possibly looking at being able to travel late July / early August. We already know we're part of that.

When he says he doesn't see travel fully returning until next year he's probably right, the numbers travelling probably still won't be anywhere near normal, some people just won't travel and the travel experience won't be anywhere near normal, not to mention airlines running reduced schedules based on demand.

stephenjmcd · 11-05-2021 05:11PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

“”However, he said he did not believe travel between Ireland and the rest of Europe or the US will fully return until next year.””

And it won't, it'll take aviation a while to get going again

Tazz T · 11-05-2021 05:15PM

Leo has put his foot in it here. This makes no sense. By lifting travel restrictions between the UK and Ireland, he then gives Irish citizens access to any travel corridors the UK agrees (US is highly likely very soon, along with European routes from next week), yet he says in the same piece that doesn't see travel between Ireland and Europe or the US happening until next year.

Another shambles.

Micky 32 · 11-05-2021 05:16PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And it won't, it'll take aviation a while to get going again

Ah right so he probably means by aviation getting going again rather than not allowed to travel to the US until next year.

Lumen · 11-05-2021 05:27PM

I don't understand Leo's argument.

He's saying that some extra lifting of restrictions is needed to boost business in Ireland from UK tourists, but travel between UK and Ireland is already permitted, since it isn't considered international travel.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/covid-19-coronavirus-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do#travelling-within-the-uk-the-republic-of-ireland-and-the-channel-islands

e.g.

Travelling from England
Across the different parts of the Common Travel Area (the UK, the Republic of Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man), there may be rules in place that restrict travel from England. You do not need a reasonable excuse to leave England to travel to other parts of the UK, Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man or the Republic of Ireland. You should check the restrictions in place where you intend to travel to before making arrangements to travel.

They can leave here too, but we can't. The problem is in the other direction.

stephenjmcd · 11-05-2021 05:31PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Ah right so he probably means by aviation getting going again rather than not allowed to travel to the US until next year.

Well he was speaking at a conference for publicans so it'll be in the context of the thought process being that they won't see normal numbers of tourists until next year, which they won't.

Whereas travel to/from the UK would probably bounce back quicker & come before the travel cert

normanoffside · 11-05-2021 05:59PM

Lumen wrote: »

I don't understand Leo's argument.

He's saying that some extra lifting of restrictions is needed to boost business in Ireland from UK tourists, but travel between UK and Ireland is already permitted, since it isn't considered international travel.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/covid-19-coronavirus-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do#travelling-within-the-uk-the-republic-of-ireland-and-the-channel-islands
.

Yep, the UK already let us go there with no test or quarantine rules.
We put a fine on Irish people going there and make Brits do 14 days home quarantine if they come here.

The restrictions are all on the Irish side as usual.

Multipass · 11-05-2021 06:00PM

Skippette wrote: »

The Guardian are reporting:

European Union governments been discussing how a Covid certificate could allow countries to open up for tourism and help citizens travel more freely across the 27-nation bloc.

Here are some of the key takeaways, via Reuters:

A Covid certificate would be handed out for free by health authorities in EU countries to people who received a vaccine, had a negative test or are immune, having recovered from Covid.

No one will be obliged to use the EU certificate, the European Parliament says.

Portugal, which holds the EU’s rotating presidency, hopes for political agreement on the deal by the end of May to enable the certificate to be operational by 21 June.

Negotiators must decide whether faster, but less accurate, Covid-19 antigen tests can be included in the certificate.
The certificate could be a paper or a digital document, with a QR code carrying encoded data that would be uploaded to the central system to allow verification in other EU countries through a single gateway.

EU negotiators must still agree if all vaccines can be considered for the certificate, or only those approved by the European Medicines Agency.

A dry run is due to start involving more than a dozen EU countries including France and Spain, while a full rollout of the system in all member states is planned in June.

What a colossal waste of time and money. Is there no end to this stupidity?

Van.Bosch · 11-05-2021 06:01PM

Tazz T wrote: »

Leo has put his foot in it here. This makes no sense. By lifting travel restrictions between the UK and Ireland, he then gives Irish citizens access to any travel corridors the UK agrees (US is highly likely very soon, along with European routes from next week), yet he says in the same piece that doesn't see travel between Ireland and Europe or the US happening until next year.

Another shambles.

You still have to declare anywhere you were innprevious 14 days, so if you go somewhere you need to quarantine.

Tazz T · 11-05-2021 06:09PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

You still have to declare anywhere you were innprevious 14 days, so if you go somewhere you need to quarantine.

Only for those countries on the quarantine list. For everywhere else, it's self isolate without the ridiculous 2k fine

Valhallapt · 11-05-2021 06:18PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And it won't, it'll take aviation a while to get going again

Planes have been moved out of Ireland to other European bases, those planes will never come back, we will have to wait for new planes to be deployed here. In short Ireland will have less connectivity and travel will be more expensive in the coming years.

Seanachai · 11-05-2021 06:33PM

Will it be an option of a clear test or vaccine proof for international travel when it opens up?

Lumen · 11-05-2021 06:34PM

Seanachai wrote: »

Will it be an option of a clear test or vaccine proof for international travel when it opens up?

That's the plan, yes.

11-05-2021 06:36PM

Valhallapt wrote: »

Planes have been moved out of Ireland to other European bases, those planes will never come back, we will have to wait for new planes to be deployed here. In short Ireland will have less connectivity and travel will be more expensive in the coming years.

Dublin airport has hundreds of planes parked up. We are a hub.

Ray Donovan · 11-05-2021 06:37PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

So I have emailed my 5 TD's, my 5 MEP's and my wife's 4 TD's. And sent my complaint to the European Commission.

But this is the really interesting bit....one of my TD's rang me back within 20 minutes!! He is FG and a former minister and told me he was against the fine and MHQ from the start and it was brought in response to populism.

He basically said that June 9th (well he actually said some day in June when the MHQ needs to be renewed, and I informed him it was June 9th) is the key date and he is hopeful both MHQ and Travel Fine will go on that date.

He never replied when I pressed him on a date for the commencement of the Green Cert.

Fair play to him for ringing me to be fair.

Just as a follow up to this, I had a serious bit of a back and forth with a FF TD today who is based in the Mid-West via email.

He was of the opinion that the travel fine is a correct and suitable measure and is what is needed for public health. (He also told me he was a keen supporter of Shannon Airport - Go Figure eh?) And he also told me the travel fine was in line with what was happening in other European countries.

Needless to say I pulled him up on these points (I asked him how did MHQ tie in with his support for Shannon Airport for example). The long and the short of it for him was the government was working hard on implementing the EU travel cert and he mentioded June so I asked him:

"Are you suggesting that Ireland will have the the EU Digital Cert up and running by June 30th?"

to which he replied

"End of June is certainly the timeline all EU country's are working towards"

Needless to say I wouldnt hold my breath. But it was very interesting to note the difference between the FG and FF TD's that got back to me. Chalk and Cheese.

I'm actually starting to believe the government are going to keep renewing the fine until the date the travel cert comes into force. Or am I going mad?

Valhallapt · 11-05-2021 06:45PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Dublin airport has hundreds of planes parked up. We are a hub.

Ryanair, Aer Lingus have both reduced their fleet. Both have moved planes to other countries. But you just say everything I say is false so no point in providing links, just google it.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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