Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Donald Trump · 26-04-2021 11:18PM

mmclo wrote: »

It is 14 days for most, interestingly 7 for Pfizer (which they call something else) and 15 for AZ (I think)

It's in the latest consolidated Statutory Instrument, so add these on to your expected date

Is that after the second dose?

I was just wondering because if someone hasn't received their first dose yet, and they have to wait until after their second one, their chances of being "green" before the end of the Summer is probably slim

Jack1985 · 26-04-2021 11:25PM

Claire Byrne Live tonight painted a very bleak picture

That's Covid Byrne alright

Donald Trump · 26-04-2021 11:39PM

Wallander wrote: »

He was asked by a company to come here and fix a freezer, and happened to live a little over an international border to what I suspect was the closest airport. Doubt he was scheming away making secret plans to circumvent the law for a wild trip to level 5 Ireland. His only mistake was travelling from a country doing a better job at upholding EU freedom of movement, and allowing essential travel to/from the rest of the EU like 26 of the 27 EU states currently do, and wrongly presuming all EU countries share this aim.

Well you see, just because you make up a ridiculous scenario and then sneer at it, does not make anything in my original point invalid.

Look I can do it too - "Well just because he is a man who can fix fridges, I doubt he was coming over to invent a magic cure for covid out of spuds and cabbage".

I never said anything about him making a "wild trip". I never said that he wasn't coming over for work. If his job is that specialised that he is needed to attend a callout from Belgium to Drogheda, then it is likely that he also travelled within the past year and is aware that there is a global pandemic. Would you not agree with that? Given that, it is likely that he was aware of restrictions, or at least the possibility of restrictions, and just incorrectly assumed that he could bypass them by flying in from a non-red-listed country. And he got caught. It is no harm to point that out because might be people reading on here who listen to posters encouraging them to break the law and end up taking a risk and maybe getting caught.

As the other poster said above, freedom of movement was perfectly implemented. That man was allowed in. He is here. He has the same entitlements and must follow the same rules as any Irish citizen.

It's kind of silly when you have to make up something. I don't see the point in doing that. Unless you don't have an actual point to make.

dalyboy · 27-04-2021 01:28AM

Lifelike wrote: »

Claire Byrne Live tonight painted a very bleak picture for the prospect of international travel returning this summer. Pól Ó Conghaile suggested that the EU COVID Certificate will be operating alongside the traffic light system rather than replacing it, and that therefore countries that are red and orange will have stricter controls on travel than those that are green. They pointed out the possibility of the status of the country that you’re visiting changing whilst you’re there.

Does anyone know if this is indeed true? I thought that the travel certificate was meant to be the key to returning to free travel but if what Pól Ó Conghaile and Claire Byrne said is even partially true it would just be an extra layer of bureaucracy on top of what we had last summer (and any additional measures our government imposes on us).

That sounds like the usual misinformation fake news from Clare Byrne.
The info you outlined is contrary to the essence of the green card system. They’re clearly trying to muddy the water so people will believe it’s too much hassle to book an abroad holiday

RTE are about as useful as infowars at this point.

Here’s a clear link as to the green card proposal
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1181

Spread the word to anyone you know.
None of my circle is accurately informed about the options for international travel this summer because all they listen to is Rte fake propaganda.... I mean “news”

Gael23 · 27-04-2021 03:45AM

No, the green certificate replaces the traffic light system. The only barrier would be if individual governments are free to impose additional quarantine restrictions which I’m not sure of

27-04-2021 06:11AM

Gael23 wrote: »

No, the green certificate replaces the traffic light system. The only barrier would be if individual governments are free to impose additional quarantine restrictions which I’m not sure of

They will be.

Golfman64 · 27-04-2021 06:44AM

Gael23 wrote: »

No, the green certificate replaces the traffic light system. The only barrier would be if individual governments are free to impose additional quarantine restrictions which I’m not sure of

And they can only do this in the event of an approval from the EU commission via written request including a specific set of metrics justifying said decision.

Wallander · 27-04-2021 06:48AM

Some coverage of MHQ in the Italian press:

https://europa.today.it/attualita/appestati-irlanda-sfogo-italiani-hotel.html

Quote from an Italian living in Ireland: "They treat us like plague victims." Says he begged his parents not to come from Italy after being vaccinated for their kids first communion in Ireland. Says he is worried about a friend who returned from Italy after an operation and is currently in a quarantine hotel. Difficulties going outside for fresh air and cleanliness raised as issues. Italian embassy say they have received about 20 inquiries from Italians in quarantine hotels and are hoping Italy is taken off the list in the coming days.

pouladuff_goal · 27-04-2021 07:24AM

Look at the photos of the food from the Croke Park hotel on twitter. Detention in Mountjoy would be better.

dalyboy · 27-04-2021 07:31AM

pouladuff_goal wrote: »

Look at the photos of the food from the Croke Park hotel on twitter. Detention in Mountjoy would be better.

And at €1900 I’d expect pure luxury food. I was shocked by them photos

DSN · 27-04-2021 07:32AM

Wallander wrote: »

Some coverage of MHQ in the Italian press:

https://europa.today.it/attualita/appestati-irlanda-sfogo-italiani-hotel.html

Quote from an Italian living in Ireland: "They treat us like plague victims." Says he begged his parents not to come from Italy after being vaccinated for their kids first communion in Ireland. Says he is worried about a friend who returned from Italy after an operation and is currently in a quarantine hotel. Difficulties going outside for fresh air and cleanliness raised as issues. Italian embassy say they have received about 20 inquiries from Italians in quarantine hotels and are hoping Italy is taken off the list in the coming days.

Do not agree with MHQ for EU citizens esp those resident or working here but what first holy communions are happening?!! Bit of hyperbole there.

munchkin_utd · 27-04-2021 07:35AM

DSN wrote: »

Do not agree with MHQ for EU citizens esp those resident or working here but what first holy communions are happening?!! Bit of hyperbole there.

wont they be happening in the coming weeks ?

Chuck Norris 2021 · 27-04-2021 07:55AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting anyone go via Belfast.

I was merely hypothesizing that some might attempt a similar "trick" coming in the other direction - i.e. if they are in a red list country such as Belgium, and decide that they can bypass the system by instead flying here from the Netherlands....then they might still get caught when they land

Trick? The guy is a Dutch national. I would assume he owns a Dutch passport, the only way he would have been detected as living in Belgium is if he volunteered that information. I've been in and out of Belgium a few times, via Schiphol, for a wider choice of flight, and there's great train links straight to the airport. This guy was a specialist, the same as many I had flying in and out earlier this year, and wrongly assumed he'd be given a pass. He clearly wasn't trying to sneak in. I would imagine that his company could have sent someone living in Holland instead. Your nearest airport isn't always the easiest. I'd expect better out of you to be fair, don't understand where you were going with this?

At the end of the day, this is a win for those of us who want to travel (and I know you have stated the same) as it paints the MHQ for what it is, a poorly planned, terribly executed plan to satisfy curtain twitchers and SF supporters. Things like this happen, and yet they sit around and watch the Indian situation really deteriorate with no action. Makes no sense.

27-04-2021 07:57AM

Golfman64 wrote: »

And they can only do this in the event of an approval from the EU commission via written request including a specific set of metrics justifying said decision.

You keep saying that but the commission do not possess the authority to force a nation to open it's borders like that.

Ireland can close it's borders tomorrow if it wants and keep them closed because while freedom of movement is a primary purpose of the eu, it's not actually written in legislation anywhere.

The eu would be annoyed and probable get back at is in some way but they couldn't actually 'force' us under current agreements.

Of course such a restriction may exist in the next planned agreement but it's a change in sovereign control

faceman · 27-04-2021 07:59AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well you see, just because you make up a ridiculous scenario and then sneer at it, does not make anything in my original point invalid.

Look I can do it too - "Well just because he is a man who can fix fridges, I doubt he was coming over to invent a magic cure for covid out of spuds and cabbage".

I never said anything about him making a "wild trip". I never said that he wasn't coming over for work. If his job is that specialised that he is needed to attend a callout from Belgium to Drogheda, then it is likely that he also travelled within the past year and is aware that there is a global pandemic. Would you not agree with that? Given that, it is likely that he was aware of restrictions, or at least the possibility of restrictions, and just incorrectly assumed that he could bypass them by flying in from a non-red-listed country. And he got caught. It is no harm to point that out because might be people reading on here who listen to posters encouraging them to break the law and end up taking a risk and maybe getting caught.

As the other poster said above, freedom of movement was perfectly implemented. That man was allowed in. He is here. He has the same entitlements and must follow the same rules as any Irish citizen.

It's kind of silly when you have to make up something. I don't see the point in doing that. Unless you don't have an actual point to make.

He’s not resident in Ireland and he is being detained and not permitted to return home for 2 weeks

What’s this about freedom of movement again.

You’re on the back foot with this one Donald.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 27-04-2021 08:03AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Ireland can close it's borders tomorrow if it wants and keep them closed

And when we have no connectivity, and we have the hand out looking for money from Europe, they'll remember what we did. SD and NPHET are putting all our futures at risk. We must be one of the few countries in the world that is making plans to stay closed, rather than plans to reopen. We need to align with Europe or we will be let sink when we need help.

27-04-2021 08:04AM

faceman wrote: »

He’s not resident in Ireland and he is being detained and not permitted to return home for 2 weeks

What’s this about freedom of movement again.

You’re on the back foot with this one Donald.

Freedom of movement means allowed live and work in any eu state as equals to the natives. He hasn't been denied that.

When you moved to Spain you had to produce certain documents prior to gaining residency, correct?

faceman · 27-04-2021 08:09AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Freedom of movement means allowed live and work in any eu state as equals to the natives. He hasn't been denied that.

When you moved to Spain you had to produce certain documents prior to gaining residency, correct?

Get real. How is that the same?

Milgrim all over again. Justifying dehumanising people and treating them like animals.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 27-04-2021 08:13AM

Unrelated to travel, but this is a typical example of what is going on in this country at the moment;

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irelands-vaccine-watchdog-finalising-guidance-around-johnson-johnson-vaccine-1117936.html

Fantastic news, J&J approved for use, and the restrictions on Astra Zenica have been relaxed slightly. He we go, roll out will speed up.

And then you get to this part of the article;

The advice will now be considered by the chief medical officer, Dr Tony Holohan, before he briefs Government.

So now Tony will chew over it for a few more days and inform the government on Thursday, so implantation will probably take an extra week. It's funny, they'll be all over adding Wallis and Futuna, yet drag their heals adding a country with extra ordinary numbers, or anything that could speed up vaccination.

Donald Trump · 27-04-2021 08:16AM

faceman wrote: »

Get real. How is that the same?

Milgrim all over again. Justifying dehumanising people and treating them like animals.

I think you just don't understand the concept of "freedom of movement" as it pertains to the EU. The engineer's freedom of movement rights were perfectly respected.

27-04-2021 09:01AM

faceman wrote: »

Get real. How is that the same?

Milgrim all over again. Justifying dehumanising people and treating them like animals.

What the same? I'm not comparing the two. I'm giving you an example of a nation being allowed implement it's own restrictions on new entries within the freedom of movement principle.

You know there's a fine for not registering your residency and staying beyond 90 days?

As an aside, I do think refusing permission to leave the hotel in order to leave the state is shaky ground but then they could be looking at the north with that one.

FlubberJones · 27-04-2021 09:08AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Unrelated to travel, but this is a typical example of what is going on in this country at the moment;

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irelands-vaccine-watchdog-finalising-guidance-around-johnson-johnson-vaccine-1117936.html

Fantastic news, J&J approved for use, and the restrictions on Astra Zenica have been relaxed slightly. He we go, roll out will speed up.

And then you get to this part of the article;

The advice will now be considered by the chief medical officer, Dr Tony Holohan, before he briefs Government.

So now Tony will chew over it for a few more days and inform the government on Thursday, so implantation will probably take an extra week. It's funny, they'll be all over adding Wallis and Futuna, yet drag their heals adding a country with extra ordinary numbers, or anything that could speed up vaccination.

Hyper conservative and completely clueless how the majority of the public actually live their lives.. thus we have the draconian lockdown and the constant threats and menaces

eltonyio · 27-04-2021 09:10AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What the same? I'm not comparing the two. I'm giving you an example of a nation being allowed implement it's own restrictions on new entries within the freedom of movement principle.

You know there's a fine for not registering your residency and staying beyond 90 days?

As an aside, I do think refusing permission to leave the hotel in order to leave the state is shaky ground but then they could be looking at the north with that one.

It is very shaky ground. What if he wanted to transfer his residency from Belgium to, for example, Spain, today? MHQ would then be restricting his freedom of movement by detaining him.

Anyway, now that there's a by-election coming up, there's a new route to leaving the country - get elected and find some official business overseas!

Gael23 · 27-04-2021 09:11AM

Golfman64 wrote: »

And they can only do this in the event of an approval from the EU commission via written request including a specific set of metrics justifying said decision.

Variants that don’t exist won’t be an acceptable justification I imagine

Corholio · 27-04-2021 09:14AM

I wonder will any of them actually speak up about it when the time comes. At least the article doesn't state the bonkers mid-July time for the relaxation of intercounty travel, and rather has 'June'

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/junior-ministers-call-for-relaxation-of-intercounty-travel-ban-1118153.html

Lifelike · 27-04-2021 09:19AM

dalyboy wrote: »

That sounds like the usual misinformation fake news from Clare Byrne.
The info you outlined is contrary to the essence of the green card system. They’re clearly trying to muddy the water so people will believe it’s too much hassle to book an abroad holiday

RTE are about as useful as infowars at this point.

Here’s a clear link as to the green card proposal
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1181

Spread the word to anyone you know.
None of my circle is accurately informed about the options for international travel this summer because all they listen to is Rte fake propaganda.... I mean “news”

Thanks that’s what I thought, what surprised me about last night is how Pól Ó Conghaile, a respected travel editor, was pushing that narrative. Hopefully he doesn’t know something that we don’t know regarding the government’s approach to the travel certificate.

fm · 27-04-2021 09:27AM

Lifelike wrote: »

Thanks that’s what I thought, what surprised me about last night is how Pól Ó Conghaile, a respected travel editor, was pushing that narrative. Hopefully he doesn’t know something that we don’t know regarding the government’s approach to the travel certificate.

He was on Newstalk last week saying the same.

The Uk Times is saying the Goverment are trying to delay the digital cert start date here,can't read it all but here is some text from it.

"The EU’s digital green certificate for travel may be rolled out in Ireland in late summer, health workers have been told.

In a briefing last week, health workers were told that the government does not want to encourage foreign travel but is under pressure to introduce the certificate from August.

The system is expected to be rolled out across the EU in June, but some member states are seeking a transition period that will preclude them from having to implement it immediately."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vaccine-passport-could-be-in-use-from-august-nvlvckm6g

Tenzor07 · 27-04-2021 09:40AM

fm wrote: »

In a briefing last week, health workers were told that the government does not want to encourage foreign travel but is under pressure to introduce the certificate from August.
The system is expected to be rolled out across the EU in June, but some member states are seeking a transition period that will preclude them from having to implement it immediately."

Well at least they are consistent in the opposition to people traveling to and from the country, same message from NPHET since last May, don't travel, avoid non-essential travel.....only difference in 2020 was that they couldn't legally stop you from traveling, however now through the persistence of Holohan they can push out any EU initiatives on travel until after the Summer tourist season.

If FFFG think that domestic tourism and having people sitting outside sheltering from the rain and wind under canvas umbrellas supping pints down in Bray eating half cold burgers will support the hospitality industry then they have truly lost their minds!

naughtysmurf · 27-04-2021 09:45AM

Fingers crossed they don’t have any unforeseen IT issues when it comes to the vaccination records & issuing of the certs

Chuck Norris 2021 · 27-04-2021 09:45AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well at least they are consistent in the opposition to people traveling to and from the country, same message from NPHET since last May, don't travel, avoid non-essential travel.....only difference in 2020 was that they couldn't legally stop you from traveling, however now through the persistence of Holohan they can push out any EU initiatives on travel until after the Summer tourist season.

If FFFG think that domestic tourism and having people sitting outside sheltering from the rain and wind under canvas umbrellas supping pints down in Bray eating half cold burgers will support the hospitality industry then they have truly lost their minds!

The only hope is that the nations sheep don't book staycations, then coming closer to summer, the government will realise they need to leave tourists in because the Irish are not wasting their money here. The big question in all this is when the €2k airport surcharge is removed. With the slow pace of the vaccine roll out, a huge amount of people will have to get tested even if the green cert is adopted, so other than 5 days at home and an extra test it may not make much difference.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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