Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Chuck Norris 2021

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Fingers crossed they don’t have any unforeseen IT issues when it comes to the vaccination records & issuing of the certs

If they can't manage to give Stephen Donnelly sufficient twitter mentions I think they're going to struggle with the green cert system. Maybe they could use the electronic voting machines to do it :pac:

Mr. Karate

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

And when we have no connectivity, and we have the hand out looking for money from Europe, they'll remember what we did. SD and NPHET are putting all our futures at risk. We must be one of the few countries in the world that is making plans to stay closed, rather than plans to reopen. We need to align with Europe or we will be let sink when we need help.

We should all refuse to get vaccination until they actually have plans to restore normality this year. There's really no benefit to getting it now. It All Risk, No Reward for us. And with the way they're carrying on it seems like it doesn't work. They're planning on keeping this going anyway so we might as well skip a step and keep that stuff out of us.

Chuck Norris 2021

Mr. Karate wrote: »

We should all refuse to get vaccination until they actually have plans to restore normality this year. There's really no benefit to getting it now. It All Risk, No Reward for us. And with the way they're carrying on it seems like it doesn't work. They're planning on keeping this going anyway so we might as well skip a step and keep that stuff out of us.

I too would like to see some kind of action taken, but I wouldn't refuse the vaccine. We all want to travel, and even if it won't give us the benefit of freedom here, it will offer us protection while abroad. I also would not agree with protests, as again it's an unnecessary risk. I think that people who want to be freed do need to speak up though and be heard over the voices of those with lock down fetishes. People need to drown out the curtain twitchers. How this can be achieved, I'm not entirely sure. I think people need to start by bombarding their local TD about it. I've already been torturing mine about the passport office. He asked a question in the Dail but got a BS answer from the minister for foreign affairs. Given that a lot of the BS here is driven by social media, maybe that's the starting point?

Dr. Em

dalyboy wrote: »

That sounds like the usual misinformation fake news from Clare Byrne.
The info you outlined is contrary to the essence of the green card system. They’re clearly trying to muddy the water so people will believe it’s too much hassle to book an abroad holiday

RTE are about as useful as infowars at this point.

Here’s a clear link as to the green card proposal
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1181

Spread the word to anyone you know.
None of my circle is accurately informed about the options for international travel this summer because all they listen to is Rte fake propaganda.... I mean “news”

There doesn't actually seem to be anything in that link that would preclude Ireland from running the traffic light system in tandem with the green card system. That wouldn't necessarily be a disadvantage to travel. For example, the traffic light system could work something like this: green country - no restrictions on travel; orange country - green card needed to travel; red country - green card + self isolation upon arrival. The EU commission would be unlikely to protest if all red countries were treated equally and self-isolation were required rather than hotel quarantine.
The wording is vague enough, unfortunately, that there could still be a patchwork of different regulations across the EU.

Dr. Em

Mr. Karate wrote: »

We should all refuse to get vaccination until they actually have plans to restore normality this year. There's really no benefit to getting it now. It All Risk, No Reward for us. And with the way they're carrying on it seems like it doesn't work. They're planning on keeping this going anyway so we might as well skip a step and keep that stuff out of us.

To refuse a vaccine would be missing the primary point of vaccinations: to limit the spread of the disease.

Mr. Karate

Dr. Em wrote: »

To refuse a vaccine would be missing the primary point of vaccinations: to limit the spread of the disease.

Yes what will we do if a virus [and all its variants] with a 99% survival rates spreads. At this point if this nonsense is the "cure" I think I would rather take my chances with the virus at this stage.

Mr. Karate

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Yes what will we do if a virus [and all its variants] with a 99% survival rates spreads. At this point if this nonsense is the "cure" I think I would rather take my chances with the virus at this stage.

As is your right but to do so in some form of protest is idiotic when it's the best way to end what you are protesting against.

Like a child that refuses to eat because the can't have dessert first

eltonyio

eltonyio wrote: »

It is very shaky ground. What if he wanted to transfer his residency from Belgium to, for example, Spain, today? MHQ would then be restricting his freedom of movement by detaining him.


Anyway, now that there's a by-election coming up, there's a new route to leaving the country - get elected and find some official business overseas!

Possible.

I'm looking more at the right to return aspect and that home quarantine has an exemption for leaving the country whereas mhq doesn't. Dunno if they could justify the difference.

Tazz T

I got an interesting reply from the EU when complaining about Ireland's MHQ system and 2k fine for leaving the country for non-essential travel. Basically, they appear to be saying that if the Covid situation here is so terrible that we there is the need to have a 20k limit in place, then it's not disproportionate to restrict travel out of the country for non-essential purposes.

'We understand that currently, within Ireland, people cannot, without reasonable excuse travel outside their own county or within 20km of their home if crossing county boundaries. These provisions are complemented by a prohibition on non-essential travel abroad. If the severity of the situation does require such drastic restrictions to domestic movement, it does not seem to be disproportionate to restrict travel to other Member States for non-essential purposes. In such a case, it seems difficult to argue that a Member State would not be allowed to ensure the respect of legal obligations and prohibitions. However, any fees should remain proportionate to the alleged offence and be adapted to the national framework for such related offences.

I wish to assure you that the Commission will continue to closely monitor developments in all EU Member States, including Ireland, with regard to the emergency measures put in place in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.'


This leaves me scratch my head as to when the severity of our pandemic becomes 'not so severe'?

Chuck Norris 2021

Tazz T wrote: »

I got an interesting reply from the EU when complaining about Ireland's MHQ system and 2k fine for leaving the country for non-essential travel. Basically, they appear to be saying that if the Covid situation here is so terrible that we there is the need to have a 20k limit in place, then it's not disproportionate to restrict travel out of the country for non-essential purposes.

'We understand that currently, within Ireland, people cannot, without reasonable excuse travel outside their own county or within 20km of their home if crossing county boundaries. These provisions are complemented by a prohibition on non-essential travel abroad. If the severity of the situation does require such drastic restrictions to domestic movement, it does not seem to be disproportionate to restrict travel to other Member States for non-essential purposes. In such a case, it seems difficult to argue that a Member State would not be allowed to ensure the respect of legal obligations and prohibitions. However, any fees should remain proportionate to the alleged offence and be adapted to the national framework for such related offences.

I wish to assure you that the Commission will continue to closely monitor developments in all EU Member States, including Ireland, with regard to the emergency measures put in place in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.'


This leaves me scratch my head as to when the severity of our pandemic becomes 'not so severe'?

Thanks for sharing. Interesting response. I'd say, to be honest, they can't be f##ked with Ireland or anyone living here after some of what the government has done. I'd say they're happy to let us suffer on out little barren rock, and I wouldn't blame them :pac:

Spanish Eyes

When you get the vaccine do you get any document that shows this from the vax centre/GP etc. I assume if you do, it would only be given after the second dose if given a two step vaccine? Am thinking of vaccine passports for foreign travel and so on here.

Dr. Em

chimpsoup1016 wrote: »

I'm due to be fully vaccinated on 28 May after a second dose.

I am due to fly to the UK on 12 June and again on 26 June - I assume a PCR test will not be required and I should show my vaccination records ?

Am I correct in my thinking ?

Keep checking the UK and Irish government travel pages between now and June, because the requirements are likely to change. The UK does not require a PRC test if you are flying from Ireland. You will need one to return though, regardless of vaccination status, and may have to self-isolate. You also will likely have to fill out a locator form each way.

Mr. Karate

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

When you get the vaccine do you get any document that shows this from the vax centre/GP etc. I assume if you do, it would only be given after the second dose if given a two step vaccine? Am thinking of vaccine passports for foreign travel and so on here.

When you get your second dose you get a card with your vaccination dates and which vaccine you received.

Mr. Karate

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

As is your right but to do so in some form of protest is idiotic when it's the best way to end what you are protesting against.

Like a child that refuses to eat because the can't have dessert first

Why should we bother getting it when they clearly have no intention of ending this nonsense anytime soon? As I said its All Risk, No Reward for us right now. Blind Compliance is only making them think they can get away with constantly dragging this out.

Chuck Norris 2021

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40275647.html

Documents published by the Department of Health show the official value of the three-month contract award to the Tifco Hotel Group to operate the quarantine system for visitors to Ireland is €5,416,290.

The contract is subject to two possible extensions of one month each.

So the system officially started March 26th, although it wasn't fully implemented until April 6th. So is it 3 calendar months? I would imagine that it'll no longer apply to most European destinations, regardless of the green cert, by late May, by virtue of the seasonal reduction in numbers, but it would be nice to have it gone in case they invent any scariants while people are on holiday abroad.

Mr. Karate

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Why should we bother getting it when they clearly have no intention of ending this nonsense anytime soon? As I said its All Risk, No Reward for us right now. Blind Compliance is only making them think they can get away with constantly dragging this out.

Like I said, no dessert until after dinner.

Your reward for having the mmr as a child was what exactly? A cookie?

wcooba

Tazz T wrote: »

'We understand that currently, within Ireland, people cannot, without reasonable excuse travel outside their own county or within 20km of their home if crossing county boundaries. These provisions are complemented by a prohibition on non-essential travel abroad. If the severity of the situation does require such drastic restrictions to domestic movement, it does not seem to be disproportionate to restrict travel to other Member States for non-essential purposes. In such a case, it seems difficult to argue that a Member State would not be allowed to ensure the respect of legal obligations and prohibitions. However, any fees should remain proportionate to the alleged offence and be adapted to the national framework for such related offences.

That explains government’s hesitation to lift inter-county restrictions (are today’s leaks say mid-July?!) As soon as this is lifted, airport fine will be scrutinised by the EU (similar happened in Belgium). Seems they are not aware though that penalties for inter-county and inter-EU travel are not proportionate (150 quid vs 2k).

titan18

wcooba wrote: »

That explains government’s hesitation to lift inter-county restrictions (are today’s leaks say mid-July?!) As soon as this is lifted, airport fine will be scrutinised by the EU (similar happened in Belgium). Seems they are not aware though that penalties for inter-county and inter-EU travel are not proportionate (150 quid vs 2k).

Key point there is

If the severity of the situation does require such drastic restrictions to domestic movement

It doesn't. The situation is not that severe and very likely will not be that severe due to vaccinations.

wcooba

titan18 wrote: »

Key point there is

If the severity of the situation does require such drastic restrictions to domestic movement

It doesn't. The situation is not that severe and very likely will not be that severe due to vaccinations.

Of course it doesn’t, but it’s not for EU commission to determine that.
It just highlights how insincere Irish government is.
They will keep inter-county restrictions as long as possible to prevent foreign travel.
Similar to prolonged 5km restrictions to prevent evictions.

Gael23

So we won’t be getting the digital certs until a point in the summer where they are useless?

Wallander

wcooba wrote: »

Of course it doesn’t, but it’s not for EU commission to determine that.
It just highlights how insincere Irish government is.
They will keep inter-county restrictions as long as possible to prevent foreign travel.
Similar to prolonged 5km restrictions to prevent evictions.

I've no doubt this is part of their thinking, but thankfully international developments might cause the house of cards to collapse.


If the green cert gets embraced by most of the EU at the start of June and Van der Leyen is announcing US tourists can come, the inter-county travel ban will look very stupid very quickly. Especially if vaccination starts eating into virus rates across Europe by then, which hopefully will be the case.

Micky 32

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Why should we bother getting it when they clearly have no intention of ending this nonsense anytime soon? As I said its All Risk, No Reward for us right now. Blind Compliance is only making them think they can get away with constantly dragging this out.

Personally i would take the vaccine to prevent yourself getting sick but I understand your frustration. It is becoming more and more clear the vaccines won’t be giving us our normality back. The government are eager to get the vaccines out for one major reason and it’s political. They want hospitalisations and deaths as low as possible so the health system will less likely collapse so it won’t bring their political lives to an end. It’s not about getting our freedoms and normality back. It’s aim is just to make people less sick as possible. As Colm Henry has said “ The vaccination program isn’t intended to replace the health measures”.

The only way out of these lockdowns and restrictions is that if history repeats itself. It seems that pandemics usually only last a few years before they eventually go away. We should be halfway through it now so we might be allowed travel again in the next 2/3 years ( that’s if any airlines exist by then). It’s just an opinion and I accept i could be totally wrong but it’s the way it all seems at the moment. The future of travel is grim. If nothing changes soon airlines will go bust and cease to exist. They can’t keep hemorrhaging money.

On a more positive note, Aerlingus sending me emails deals regarding travel to the UK in August. Maybe they know something we don’t.

titan18

wcooba wrote: »

Of course it doesn’t, but it’s not for EU commission to determine that.
It just highlights how insincere Irish government is.
They will keep inter-county restrictions as long as possible to prevent foreign travel.
Similar to prolonged 5km restrictions to prevent evictions.

It wouldn't surprise me if the commission weighed in using that green/amber/red levels that they had from last year and go you're at green, cop on.

touts

Joe Walsh tours and the 10 company names it trades under has gone bust. Just announced.

That will kill any chances of people gambling with booking holidays with other travel agents.

Jack1985

Joe Walsh Tours (JWIT) has collapsed and has informed the Commission for Aviation Regulation or CAR that it is unable to fulfil its obligations to customers and has ceased trading with immediate effect.

Meanwhile Aer Lingus is proposing nearly 900 job losses and is unable to say if it can pay remaining staff for Winter 2021 if Summer 2021 cannot be recovered.

We are witnessing the acceleration of months of torture for the industry, Ryanair are expected to announce job cuts and aircraft cuts in ROI shortly.

Donald Trump

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Why should we bother getting it when they clearly have no intention of ending this nonsense anytime soon? As I said its All Risk, No Reward for us right now. Blind Compliance is only making them think they can get away with constantly dragging this out.

You can refuse it if you want. Your choice. You'd probably feel a bit silly for doing that though if you refuse a vaccine and a few weeks later catch a dose of it.


If you won't do it for yourself, you can also do it to protect others who can't receive the vaccine. If you don't want to do it for them, then you can't be forced. People can consider it a civic responsibility if they want to.

Tenzor07

Ah terrible news, can always remember JWT being around for years, now Covid has put the final nail in the coffin for them...

https://ifiplayer.ie/jwt-holidays-sun-in-1981/

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ah terrible news, can always remember JWT being around for years, now Covid has put the final nail in the coffin for them...

https://ifiplayer.ie/jwt-holidays-sun-in-1981/

Had a very good all inclusive branch for a while. Too good it seems as they weren't making a profit

Gael23

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ah terrible news, can always remember JWT being around for years, now Covid has put the final nail in the coffin for them...

https://ifiplayer.ie/jwt-holidays-sun-in-1981/

That was bought by first choice wasn’t it?

I hope the Twitter mob are proud of themselves

Tazz T

Jack1985 wrote: »

Joe Walsh Tours (JWIT) has collapsed and has informed the Commission for Aviation Regulation or CAR that it is unable to fulfil its obligations to customers and has ceased trading with immediate effect.

Meanwhile Aer Lingus is proposing nearly 900 job losses and is unable to say if it can pay remaining staff for Winter 2021 if Summer 2021 cannot be recovered.

We are witnessing the acceleration of months of torture for the industry, Ryanair are expected to announce job cuts and aircraft cuts in ROI shortly.

Bit of a wake up call for all those saying 'can ye not wait a couple of years for your holiday, then it'll all be back to normal?'

There will be no industry to take you on holiday. And what there will be will be will be hugely expensive.