Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

eltonyio wrote: »

The list makes no sense.

• India has had a 7 day average of over 100k per day for 2 weeks now. Not on the list! (but with sustained human transmission and widely reported variant)
• Ireland had more cases yesterday than Bermuda had in the last 7 days combined (403 cases vs 400 cases) and only the UK variant. Bermuda on the list!!
  [/LIST
  
  Giving this arbitrary power to a former engineer makes no sense.

Afaik the list is subject to change and no I wasn't privy to the relevant decision making process. Maybe send your TD an email and ask.

As for the picked countries you mentioned afaik

India just added to the UK red list due to rapidly rising numbers there.
Id expect something similar here

Bermuda recently added because of rapidly rising case numbers / sustained human transmission there atm. I was reading that they've detected recent cases imported from visitors on recent flights from Miami, Charlotte, N.C., and Atlanta. Looks like they're in lockdown atm.

And afaik its not the relevant minister here who comes up with the list. That's what we have civil servants / professional advisors for. I believe there's also an expert group but can't recall whats its called.

At the end if the day - the purpose of quarantine is to discourage those who otherwise engage in non essential travel.

Is it perfect? Highly unlikely but atm its simply another means of keeping the rate of infection down until we get people vaccinated

'Oh no, the India doubledeath variant is here. Quickly put India on the list to stop it coming here.'

This appears to be the 'logic' behind MHQ.

gozunda wrote: »

Well no - its not Nphet. Recommendations are based on advice from the Acting Chief Medical Officer who in turn is supported by an Expert Advisory Group on Travel. Mr Donnelly as minister gets to sign off on adding or removing (revoking) countries to the quarantine list based on their advice.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/1d12d-minister-for-health-confirms-revocation-of-designation-of-three-states-from-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-list/

Tbf with the aim of keeping the rate of infection down until everyone is vaccinated then for sure there's going to be significant travel restrictions whether we like it or not.

Unfortunately littlee else seems to have worked at stopping/ discouraging people from non essential travel. Maybe people will finally get the message when they have to pay for quarantine and go without their holiday. And yes I know its not all holidaymakers etc and we need exemptions on compassionate grounds etc

As I said- maybe best send any complaints to your TD or whoever.

I will keep posting here thank you, it's the purpose of this thread. I have however also emailed my TD and MEP. They strongly disagreed with the internment policy and the only tone I can read into their replies is embarrasment.

• The Minister signed off Wallis and Futuna. Npbody travels here from there and they've hardly any cases in real numbers.
• The Minister signed off Bermuda (very little travel, very low cases in real numbers) but not Poland (very high travel to Ireland normally, very high cases). How on earth can that make sense?
• The Minister signed off Israel with the highest vaccine rates in the world but ran away when a court case came along.
• The Minister signed off Belgium, but not the Netherlands. Both with high rates of travel here in normal times and current high rates of covid.
• The Minister did not sign off India but did sign off San Marino.

If the aim is to achieve zero covid, this won't do it. Populist move.

eltonyio wrote: »

I will keep posting here thank you, it's the purpose of this thread. I have however also emailed my TD and MEP. They strongly disagreed with the internment policy and the only tone I can read into their replies is embarrasment.

• The Minister signed off Wallis and Futuna. Npbody travels here from there and they've hardly any cases in real numbers.
• The Minister signed off Bermuda (very little travel, very low cases in real numbers) but not Poland (very high travel to Ireland normally, very high cases). How on earth can that make sense?
• The Minister signed off Israel with the highest vaccine rates in the world but ran away when a court case came along.
• The Minister signed off Belgium, but not the Netherlands. Both with high rates of travel here in normal times and current high rates of covid.
• The Minister did not sign off India but did sign off San Marino.

If the aim is to achieve zero covid, this won't do it. Populist move.

Well no its not about posting - though sending a complaint to the relevant people - if you feel that strongly about MHQ and the personal
attributes of the minister apparently - might be better? .

Again the criteria are not as inflexible as you seem to think. Each country is different. And its not particularly useful comparing Bermuda with India for example. But yes they do relate to where Rapidly rising rates of infection / sustained human transmission of Covid-19 or any variant of concern” are known issues

As detailed the addition or removal of anyone country is based on the advice of the Acting Chief Medical Officer who in turn is supported by an Expert Advisory Group on Travel. This then that gets signed of by the relevant minister.Its not difficult to understand.

And I've seen no reference to zeo covid anywhere btw as policy. Though some seem to think that. Zero covid is an approach some countries took and who have completely closed their borders. Norway seems the latest example of that. Our borders remain open with restricted entry and quarantine requirements.

A question- are you completely against any MHQ?

What would you do to help keep down the rate of infection whilst vaccines are being rolled out?

munchkin_utd wrote: »

is the expert group not a sub group of NPHET ? And who are they, this secret group with secret info and secret ways of working out risk that must not be shared with the public.

They definitely arent anything to do with the Dept of Foreign affairs as the expert group only lobs hand grenades of lists of random countries over the wall to the rest of us, incl the DFA.

Afaik no. And there's no big secret as far as I can see. Google is your friend ...

Notes

The Expert Advisory Group on Travel (EAGT) was established on 1 March 2021 to develop a method of risk assessing States and consider all concerns COVID-19 poses for travel.

The Group meets every two weeks to recommend amendments to the list of Designated States, taking into account:

countries with outbreak involving known variants of concern

countries with a very high 14-day incidence (≥500/100,000)

countries with a high 14-day incidence (greater than 2.5 times Ireland’s 14-day incidence but <500/100,000)


These recommendations are considered by the Chief Medical Officer who in turn makes a recommendation to the Minister for Health.

The EAGT has emphasised the ongoing risk presented by variants of concern, variants of interest and the challenge posed by the limited availability of data relating to the locations and spread of VOCs.

The group will give ongoing consideration to any other measures they deem required to reduce the risk of imported cases of COVID-19.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/c7f7d-minister-for-health-announces-additions-to-list-of-designated-states/

Looks like India is up for consideration for anyone wanting to know why they hadn't been added.


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/experts-to-discuss-adding-india-to-hotel-quarantine-list-after-variant-detection-40334526.html


The UK will add them to their red list from this Friday

https://www.thejournal.ie/uk-adds-india-to-hotel-quarantine-list-three-cases-in-ireland-5414627-Apr2021/

Maybe some here could set up an opposing expert group to advise them and let them know when they're on the wrong track? Sounds like a good idea ...

Corholio wrote: »

I see along with Belfast City resuming their Amsterdam flights, Randox have opened up a testing centre for both PCR and antigen testing.

https://twitter.com/RandoxHealth/status/1384510289417097217?s=19

Marvellous. The world beckons!

gozunda wrote: »

Afaik no. And there's no big secret as far as I can see. Google is your friend ...




https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/c7f7d-minister-for-health-announces-additions-to-list-of-designated-states/

Looks like India is up for consideration for anyone wanting to know why they hadn't been added.


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/experts-to-discuss-adding-india-to-hotel-quarantine-list-after-variant-detection-40334526.html


The UK will add them to their red list from this Friday

https://www.thejournal.ie/uk-adds-india-to-hotel-quarantine-list-three-cases-in-ireland-5414627-Apr2021/

Maybe some here could set up an opposing expert group to advise them and let them know when they're on the wrong track? Sounds like a good idea ...

Surely all aspects would be debated within the one (expert group)?

bluelamp wrote: »

The greater than 95% reduction in passenger numbers the past year says the exact opposite.

The largest reduction of any country in Europe in fact.

I would imagine that it's not unrealistic that 5% of passengers in normal times were travelling for essential reasons.

Wasn't there a figure taken from the declaration form in late Jan that 60% of that 5% didn't give a valid reason?

bluelamp wrote: »

The greater than 95% reduction in passenger numbers the past year says the exact opposite.

The largest reduction of any country in Europe in fact.

I would imagine that it's not unrealistic that 5% of passengers in normal times were travelling for essential reasons.

Well one thing for sure - its certainly not normal times. Of interest where did you get the 95% figure from? It wasn't that long ago we had approx 30,000 holidaymakers arriving at Dublin Airport despite restrictions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-30-000-holidaymakers-used-dublin-airport-before-heavier-fine-imposed-1.4539634

Jack1985 wrote: »

In a 2 month period, 30,000 people. Christ LOCK IT DOWN.

Dublin was handling circa 2 million passengers per month in normal times. Context with figures is well needed.

Wrong. Not referring to total number of passengers. These are "Holidaymakers". Comprende?

Again are we in "normal times"? Dont think so.

And thats the thing. Travel for holiday and leisure effectively is locked down. And yet we still have 30,000 holidaymakers taking the proverbial?

Not people looking to mind granny. Or help build some important piece of infrastructure. Nope. Holiers!. And that's just Dublin frking Airport.

And then some wonder why we just might need some additional measures to deter these eejits in order to help keep the rate of infection down whilst we roll out the vaccination schedule...

gozunda wrote: »

eejits

Since you raised it, context in what you're pontificating on would be apperciated.

I think we can all agree that this isn't the time for foreign holidays. Surely.

saabsaab wrote: »

I think we can all agree that this isn't the time for foreign holidays. Surely.

What might be not be critical to you is to others. You can take your anecdotal stories and use them as justification for your viewpoint all you like but when individuals are either vaccinated, recovered or Cv19 neg they can do without curtain twitchers like you judging their every moves.

Jack1985 wrote: »

I did, you tried to give an interpretation that a figure of 30K was an obscene amount but when compared with reality it pales against it. You had just asked for justification of a -95% reduction in normal traffic flows.

Did you better summarise yourself with the facts before you posted that drivel?

So I can ask the - do you always post 'drivel' by way of reply?

That's 30,000 holidaymakers arriving. Not the stats for all the passengers who would use the airport in "normal times" as someone referred to it.

But anyway no matter you're wrong again. I had asked the previous poster where they got their 95% reduction figure from.

Is that ok. Or do I have to ask your permission to do so?