Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Micky 32

faceman wrote: »

I’m here if you need to talk hun xx

https://www.newstalk.com/news/irish-people-have-become-paralysed-by-variant-concerns-fanning-1182450

I think that’s the whole idea. That’s the intent. Fill people with fear so they won’t even think about travelling.

Not to mention the finger wagging for the foreable future.

“ Jaysus Mary’s gone off to Lanza, she’ll bring back B - 35864269854 with her. We’re all doomed i tell ya!”

eltonyio

This is a good read and shows we're quite an outlier in Europe.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2021/04/15/the-promise-of-international-travel-april-eu-travel-restrictions-covid-19-test-requirements-quarantine-by-country/?sh=5e33dc5c437c

There are some countries with very strong restrictions (such as Norway's border closure for non citizens or non residents) but the vast majority of our neighbours are sensibly relying on testing, vaccinations or home quarantine. None are doing a mandatory hotel quarantine for EU countries. That would be a really stupid (and pointless) thing to do to your neighbours wouldn't it, when you have a land border route they can use as a backdoor.

A sample of the countries with a strong tourism industry and a sensible approach to travel:

Croatia - Travelers arriving from EU/Schengen countries must be in possession of a negative Covid-19 test result upon arrival.
Greece - Open to international tourists on 14 May, provided they can present either a vaccination document or a negative Covid-19 test result upon arrival
Iceland - Since 18 March, travelers arriving from anywhere in the world have been allowed to enter if they can show proof of having been vaccinated
Malta - open on 1st June - green countries zero restrictions, amber countries negative PCR
Cyprus - red list countries require a €60 PCR on arrival (orange list bring the PCR with you)

Plenty of green shoots there.

gozunda

eltonyio wrote: »

This is a good read and shows we're quite an outlier in Europe.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2021/04/15/the-promise-of-international-travel-april-eu-travel-restrictions-covid-19-test-requirements-quarantine-by-country/?sh=5e33dc5c437c

There are some countries with very strong restrictions (such as Norway's border closure for non citizens or non residents) but the vast majority of our neighbours are sensibly relying on testing, vaccinations or home quarantine. None are doing a mandatory hotel quarantine for EU countries. That would be a really stupid (and pointless) thing to do to your neighbours wouldn't it, when you have a land border route they can use as a backdoor.

A sample of the countries with a strong tourism industry and a sensible approach to travel:

Croatia - Travelers arriving from EU/Schengen countries must be in possession of a negative Covid-19 test result upon arrival.
Greece - Open to international tourists on 14 May, provided they can present either a vaccination document or a negative Covid-19 test result upon arrival
Iceland - Since 18 March, travelers arriving from anywhere in the world have been allowed to enter if they can show proof of having been vaccinated
Malta - open on 1st June - green countries zero restrictions, amber countries negative PCR
Cyprus - red list countries require a €60 PCR on arrival (orange list bring the PCR with you)

Plenty of green shoots there.

Yeah Norway is an interesting case to point and is using Hotel quarantine.

Due to the outbreak of a more contagious variant of the coronavirus, the Norwegian government has decided to close the borders to prevent spreading this virus. Anyone that returns to the country from an unnecessary leisure travel abroad must stay at a quarantine hotel when they return to Norway, starting from 00.00 on 29 March.

Only Norwegian nationals and foreign nationals that reside in Norway are allowed to enter the country. 

As for Ireland. The thing about that is our nearest island neighbour - the UK - also has mandatory hotel quarantine. A neighbour with which we share a common travel area. Interestingly Northern Ireland has now also introduced mandatory hotel quarantine.

We have perhaps an unique advantage of being an island (albeit as you point out with a land border). It would be a stupid not to use that to our geographical advantage.

For those "countries with a strong tourism industry" which you believe have "a sensible approach to travel"

I would suggest that for at lest some countries that approach is being driven more by economics rather than a pragmatic approach to covid.

Greece for example is not doing well with regard to its rates of infection and hospitalisations.

https://i.imgflip.com/56e80u.jpg

https://greekreporter.com/2021/04/19/record-number-coronavirus-patients-ventilators-greece-monday/

Germany has effectively closed it borders to tourism but is permitting outward bound tourism to other countries. Its also requiring that passengers from risk countries arriving in Germany are subject to quarantine, with very limited exemptions, even with a negative COVID test.

An interesting NIMBY approach to the whole thing

Edit: I see that Italy has adopted a five-day quarantine on European arrivals, or Italians arriving from European destinations with all arrivals having to take a negative test at the end of the five days in order to leave quarantine. A 14 day quarantine requirement is also in place for a range of other countries.

eltonyio

gozunda wrote: »

Thing about that is our nearest island neighbour also has mandatory hotel quarantine. A neighbour with which we share a common travel area. Interestingly Northern Ireland has now also introduced mandatory hotel quarantine.

We have perhaps an unique advantage of being an island (albeit as you point out with a land border). It would be a stupid not to use our geographical advantage just.

For those "countries with a strong tourism industry which you believe have "a sensible approach to travel"

I would suggest that fir at lest some countries that approach is being driven more by economics rather than a pragmatic approach to covid.

Greece for example is not doing well with regard to its rates of infection and hospitalisations.

https://i.imgflip.com/56e80u.jpg

https://greekreporter.com/2021/04/19/record-number-coronavirus-patients-ventilators-greece-monday/

The UK is not doing MHQ for EU countries.



Any of the EU countries on our MHQ list could fly to Britain or NI (when routes restart) and simply cross the border, with no MHQ in the UK, or border checks in Ireland.



This is already being done to avoid quarantine and has been widely reported in media.

gozunda

eltonyio wrote: »

The UK is not doing MHQ for EU countries.

Any of the EU countries on our MHQ list could fly to Britain or NI (when routes restart) and simply cross the border, with no MHQ in the UK, or border checks in Ireland.

This is already being done to avoid quarantine and has been widely reported in media.

Erm I didn't say they had EU countries on their list btw. As to MHQ and other countries. Its a little bit more complicated.

While MHQ does not generally apply to arrivals from GB, please be aware:

Arrivals from (UK) red-listed countries transiting via GB to Ireland must, if they go landside at the point of arrival, enter hotel quarantine in GB before completing their journey: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/booking-and-staying-in-a-quarantine-hotel-when-you-arrive-in-england

A person who enters hotel quarantine (10 days in GB) should remain in the UK until 14 days have passed since they were in or travelling through a red-list country, before travelling onwards to Ireland (with a negative RT-PCR test within the 72 hours before arrival in Ireland).

Travellers transiting through GB from a red-listed country en route to Ireland, if they remain airside, are not required to enter hotel quarantine in the UK. Hotel quarantine rules will apply on arrival in Ireland. Important to check the rules on transit before you travel.

MHQ will also apply to all those who cannot provide evidence of a negative RT-PCR test taken within the 72 hours before arrival in Ireland – including arrivals from GB.

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/great-britain/

eltonyio

Do you honestly think that all the Irish people living in France won't just return to Ireland via Germany for example, or the UK? And do you think they will then self declare dor detention? No chance. Taxi drivers in Belfast have already reported surges in cross border runs.

This policy is populist nonsense and won't work anyway when the UK is sensibly not doing MHQ for EU countries.

Chuck Norris 2021

eltonyio wrote: »

Do you honestly think that all the Irish people living in France won't just return to Ireland via Germany for example, or the UK? And do you think they will then self declare dor detention? No chance. Taxi drivers in Belfast have already reported surges in cross border runs.

This policy is populist nonsense and won't work anyway when the UK is sensibly not doing MHQ for EU countries.

I could be totally wrong here, but I believe that there would be better compliance if there was a more balanced approach to European countries. Negative test on arrival, 5 days self containment, test again. I know it's still a big cost burden on families, but less likely to cause backdoor travel.

eltonyio

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

I could be totally wrong here, but I believe that there would be better compliance if there was a more balanced approach to European countries. Negative test on arrival, 5 days self containment, test again. I know it's still a big cost burden on families, but less likely to cause backdoor travel.

I agree with that/ similar balanced approach. Decisions have to make sense and those that don't will lose trust and compliance.

Chuck Norris 2021

Apologies in advance, I know this has been posted previously but I can't find it, can someone point me in the direction of the parameters for selecting 'designated states' for MHQ? No dart board pics please : )

faceman

eltonyio wrote: »

This is a good read and shows we're quite an outlier in Europe.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2021/04/15/the-promise-of-international-travel-april-eu-travel-restrictions-covid-19-test-requirements-quarantine-by-country/?sh=5e33dc5c437c

There are some countries with very strong restrictions (such as Norway's border closure for non citizens or non residents) but the vast majority of our neighbours are sensibly relying on testing, vaccinations or home quarantine. None are doing a mandatory hotel quarantine for EU countries. That would be a really stupid (and pointless) thing to do to your neighbours wouldn't it, when you have a land border route they can use as a backdoor.

A sample of the countries with a strong tourism industry and a sensible approach to travel:

Croatia - Travelers arriving from EU/Schengen countries must be in possession of a negative Covid-19 test result upon arrival.
Greece - Open to international tourists on 14 May, provided they can present either a vaccination document or a negative Covid-19 test result upon arrival
Iceland - Since 18 March, travelers arriving from anywhere in the world have been allowed to enter if they can show proof of having been vaccinated
Malta - open on 1st June - green countries zero restrictions, amber countries negative PCR
Cyprus - red list countries require a €60 PCR on arrival (orange list bring the PCR with you)

Plenty of green shoots there.

Iceland had MHQ for non residents for 5 days however it was killed by their courts for being unconstitutional

eltonyio

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Apologies in advance, I know this has been posted previously but I can't find it, can someone point me in the direction of the parameters for selecting 'designated states' for MHQ? No dart board pics please : )

There quite possibly isn't a set of parameters. If there was, why would:

• Israel be on it, and then suddenly post a court challenge be removed
• India not to be on it (233k cases per day and their scariant)
• Bermuda is on it! (7 day average of 46 cases per day, 3 deaths in last 7 days)
• Belgium but not Netherlands
• France but not Germany
• No Poland?
• Wallis and Futuna? :pac::pac:

Tenzor07

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Negative test on arrival, 5 days self containment, test again. I know it's still a big cost burden on families, but less likely to cause backdoor travel.

No ones going to travel under those conditions either at Irish costs that's €300+ per person plus having to find somewhere to isolate for 5 days.

Vaccine cert/negative test = no quarantine

Free rapid testing at airports = no quarantine.

Chris_5339762

eltonyio wrote: »

scariant

I think we all need to make an agreement to NOT let that word become a thing. Its awful Can we add it to Boards swear filter perhaps?

Tenzor07

eltonyio wrote: »

• Israel be on it, and then suddenly post a court challenge be removed
• India not to be on it (233k cases per day and their scariant)
• Bermuda is on it! (7 day average of 46 cases per day, 3 deaths in last 7 days)
• Belgium but not Netherlands
• France but not Germany
• No Poland?
• Wallis and Futuna? :pac::pac:

Crazy lists!

Israel = no direct flights to Ireland
India = no direct flights to Ireland

Belgium/France/Germany - people can drive across the border and fly from either country..

gozunda

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

I could be totally wrong here, but I believe that there would be better compliance if there was a more balanced approach to European countries. Negative test on arrival, 5 days self containment, test again. I know it's still a big cost burden on families, but less likely to cause backdoor travel.

Do you mean something like In Italy, where incoming travellers from other EU countries are required to quarantine for five days and then must produce a negative test to leave quarantine?

eltonyio

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I think we all need to make an agreement to NOT let that word become a thing. Its awful Can we add it to Boards swear filter perhaps?

It's an awful word agreed, but apt given the unnecessary panic the media causes and the populists who want to turn us into North Korea.

Chuck Norris 2021

Tenzor07 wrote: »

No ones going to travel under those conditions either at Irish costs that's €300+ per person plus having to find somewhere to isolate for 5 days.

Vaccine cert/negative test = no quarantine

Free rapid testing at airports = no quarantine.

I'd rather not have it either, and it would be a deterrent, but easier to swallow than MHQ.

Chuck Norris 2021

gozunda wrote: »

Do you mean something like In Italy, where incoming travellers from other EU countries are required to quarantine for five days and then must produce a negative test to leave quarantine?

Yes, but just for red list countries. Let's face it, our current measures and anti travel sentiment are aimed squarely at our own people. I'd love to have free travel back, but in the meanwhile, this may be a compromise that more people would be likely to comply with. Just thinking out loud and probably totally wrong.

Chuck Norris 2021

eltonyio wrote: »

There quite possibly isn't a set of parameters. If there was, why would:

• Israel be on it, and then suddenly post a court challenge be removed
• India not to be on it (233k cases per day and their scariant)
• Bermuda is on it! (7 day average of 46 cases per day, 3 deaths in last 7 days)
• Belgium but not Netherlands
• France but not Germany
• No Poland?
• Wallis and Futuna? :pac::pac:

So dart board & map, or magic 8 ball it is then....

gozunda

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Apologies in advance, I know this has been posted previously but I can't find it, can someone point me in the direction of the parameters for selecting 'designated states' for MHQ? No dart board pics please : )

From various media sources the parameters are pertinent to Section 38E of the Health (Amendment) Act 2021, which sets out what a ‘designated state’ is in law, the Health Minister may add any state “where there is known to be sustained human transmission of Covid-19 or any variant of concern” to the list

Tenzor07

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

I'd rather not have it either, and it would be a deterrent, but easier to swallow than MHQ.

It's like asking someone would they like a punch in the nose or the nuts... both very unpleasant...

pouladuff_goal

eltonyio wrote: »

There quite possibly isn't a set of parameters. If there was, why would:

• Israel be on it, and then suddenly post a court challenge be removed
• India not to be on it (233k cases per day and their scariant)
• Bermuda is on it! (7 day average of 46 cases per day, 3 deaths in last 7 days)
• Belgium but not Netherlands
• France but not Germany
• No Poland?
• Wallis and Futuna? :pac::pac:

There are no parameters. It is a total sh1tshow but it gives the press something to write about. They might have to look for another story like how bad we are at rolling out the vaccines. Why is it still so hard for qualified medical people to register to vaccinate?

It is really dangerous though. The precedent is there now.

I have no reason to travel at the moment. I will in the summer and will go to a sunny destination. I will pick a greenlist country and go via Belfast just to be safer in case our geniuses decide to add Greece or Spain to the list.

eltonyio

gozunda wrote: »

From various media sources the parameters are pertinent to Section 38E of the Health (Amendment) Act 2021, which sets out what a ‘designated state’ is in law, the Health Minister may add any state “where there is known to be sustained human transmission of Covid-19 or any variant of concern” to the list

The list makes no sense.

• India has had a 7 day average of over 100k per day for 2 weeks now. Not on the list! (but with sustained human transmission and widely reported variant)
• Ireland had more cases yesterday than Bermuda had in the last 7 days combined (403 cases vs 400 cases) and only the UK variant. Bermuda on the list!!

Giving this arbitrary power to a former engineer makes no sense.

Chuck Norris 2021

eltonyio wrote: »

Giving this arbitrary power to a former engineer makes no sense.

Never know that until today. He's mechanical, far fewer parameters to think about, s**t or water, hot or cold :pac:. At least if a toilet gets blocked or the HVAC goes down in the MQ hotel they'll know who to call.

d15ude

eltonyio wrote: »

The list makes no sense.

• India has had a 7 day average of over 100k per day for 2 weeks now. Not on the list! (but with sustained human transmission and widely reported variant)
• Ireland had more cases yesterday than Bermuda had in the last 7 days combined (403 cases vs 400 cases) and only the UK variant. Bermuda on the list!!

Giving this arbitrary power to a former engineer makes no sense.

Bermuda has a population 64k vs India 1.336b, if you have a little understanding of math...

Chuck Norris 2021

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/2021-to-become-year-of-the-variant-as-double-mutantindian-strain-detected-in-ireland-40333050.html

2021 to become ‘year of the variant’ as ‘double mutant’ Indian strain detected in Ireland

The press are loving this. The headline should read '2021 to become the year we use the word 'variant' to sell more papers'

What I can't understand, is given the extremely high rates in India, and now all the talk of a variant, why the travel group are going to 'meet later in the week' to discuss adding it to the list. Whereas there was a huge panic to add Italy etc. Especially now that the UK have turned us into a stepping stone, and they have a large Indian population. I just can't understand it. They all seem so cool about it now! Is SD, NPHET etc starting to lose interest in travel? Did they wake up this morning and realise that most of the transmission is in the community? Is the test data from Ireland being monitored or sampled by the ECDC or CDC, i.e. someone more competent?

eltonyio

d15ude wrote: »

Bermuda has a population 64k vs India 1.336b, if you have a little understanding of math...

Obviously vastly different sized populations.



The point stands, Bermuda does not have widespread transmission of covid - it's had 20 deaths in total since the pandemic began.

eltonyio

eltonyio wrote: »

Obviously vastly different sized populations.



The point stands, Bermuda does not have widespread transmission of covid - it's had 20 deaths in total since the pandemic began.

Or to look from the UK's perspective, Bermuda is not on their list but India is.


The list makes no sense.

saabsaab

eltonyio wrote: »

Or to look from the UK's perspective, Bermuda is not on their list but India is.


The list makes no sense.

True enough India should be on the list now.

eltonyio

saabsaab wrote: »

True enough India should be on the list now.

The all knowing, Twitter loving Minister doesn't think it should be yet presumably, or it would be.



If we're to trust his judgement when he puts some countries on the list, we need to also trust it when he doesn't. You can't have it both ways.



He does however think that San Marino should be on the list.



If anyone can give a clear and evidenced answer why, for example Belgium is on the list, but not the Netherlands, I would be genuinely interested.



The list makes no sense.