Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:30AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I could understand it for international travel, but the idea that the government can coerce people into taking a vaccine to live a half normal life (no guarantee the masks and the other things will go even with the passport) radically alters the relationship between citizen and State.

You don't have to take the vaccine.

If that means I'm not going to discover you sat at the table next to me while I go out for dinner with my family, you'll have to excuse me for not being too disappointed.

13-04-2021 09:45AM

Graham wrote: »

You don't have to take the vaccine.

If that means I'm not going to discover you sat at the table next to me while I go out for dinner with my family, you'll have to excuse me for not being too disappointed.

Don't have to, but can't take part in society if you don't, or rather half take part in society (masks, social distancing etc) if "allowed" to by the government. We were warned about this by Aldous Huxley: “People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.”

LineOfBeauty · 13-04-2021 09:47AM

Taken from the Irish Independent

"Asked what impact it will have on the road out of lockdown, deputy chief medical officer Dr Ronan Glynn said he hoped it would not be significant and said that vaccination is just one element of controlling the spread with compliance with public health measures crucial in the weeks ahead."

Reading between the lines there, so he does not sound confident at all that we're hitting the 80% and our method of controlling the spread is vaccines and restrictions. To me that reads as though the cautious restriction approach will continue into the Summer due to us being unable to hit the vaccine targets, no?

francogarbanzo · 13-04-2021 09:47AM

Graham wrote: »

You don't have to take the vaccine.

If that means I'm not going to discover you sat at the table next to me while I go out for dinner with my family, you'll have to excuse me for not being too disappointed.

Sounds like you don’t have too much confidence in the vaccine.

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't have to, but can't take part in society if you don't, or rather half take part in society (masks, social distancing etc) if "allowed" to by the government. We were warned about this by Aldous Huxley: “People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.”

No idea what you're waffling on about but I have no problem with restrictions being eased/removed sooner for those that have been vaccinated.

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:50AM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Sounds like you don’t have too much confidence in the vaccine.

Or perhaps I expect we're not going to reach herd immunity levels immediately regardless of my own vaccination status.

Like I said, I have no problem with restrictions being eased/removed sooner for those that have been vaccinated.

Sobit1964 · 13-04-2021 09:53AM

Graham wrote: »

Or perhaps I expect we're not going to reach herd immunity levels immediately regardless of my own vaccination status.

Like I said, I have no problem with restrictions being eased/removed sooner for those that have been vaccinated.

If you have been jabbed, why do you care about those that have not? Do you feel like you are still at risk?

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:56AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

If you have been jabbed, why do you care about those that have not? Do you feel like you are still at risk?

Until we reach herd immunity, the country will continue to be at risk, businesses will continue to be at risk, education will continue to be as risk, socialising/entertainment will continue to be at risk, international travel will continue to be at risk......

TomSweeney · 13-04-2021 09:58AM

growleaves wrote: »

No epidemiological data suggest Hungary should re-open – virologist

The political situation is very extreme and we are not the only country with local mad scientists sounding off.

Jesus !

- "Those (who resist) will sooner or later need to make a choice: become hermits in the woods, die out, or get vaccinated."

Is he talking about the same disease ?

Here is a breakdown of the IFR https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

But be careful it's from far right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones ... oh no wait, it's the WHO

There is serious mental illness being shown by these people that are put up on pedestals by society because we need to "trust the science".

The irony is "Science" has become as dogmatic as religion lately.

Sobit1964 · 13-04-2021 09:58AM

Graham wrote: »

Until we reach herd immunity, the country will continue to be at risk, businesses will continue to be at risk, education will continue to be as risk, socialising/entertainment will continue to be at risk, international travel will continue to be at risk......

I doubt we will see the continent achieve more than 60% vaccination rates - people are very reluctant. Will you be limiting your travels to the UK and Ireland?

ypres5 · 13-04-2021 09:59AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

If you have been jabbed, why do you care about those that have not? Do you feel like you are still at risk?

I think some people have gotten so used to passing judgement on people's lives down to the last minutiea that it's hard for them to wean themselves off it

Graham · 13-04-2021 10:04AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

I doubt we will see the continent achieve more than 60% vaccination rates - people are very reluctant. Will you be limiting your travels to the UK and Ireland?

I doubt it, I'll be vaccinated and carry whatever vaccination passport is necessary.

Maybe France will be off the cards for a while but that's ok, I won't miss France.

Where did you get 60% from?

Graham · 13-04-2021 10:07AM

ypres5 wrote: »

I think some people have gotten so used to passing judgement on people's lives down to the last minutiea that it's hard for them to wean themselves off it

No judgment.

If you don't want to be vaccinated that's entirely up to you.

Sobit1964 · 13-04-2021 10:08AM

Graham wrote: »

No judgment.

If you don't want to be vaccinated that's entirely up to you.

But you would prefer that these 'unclean' are segregated from you and your vaccinated family?

Graham · 13-04-2021 10:10AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

But you would prefer that these 'unclean' are segregated from you and your vaccinated family?

Unclean is an odd choice of word.

Why do you think unvaccinated people are likely to be unclean?

francogarbanzo · 13-04-2021 10:13AM

Graham wrote: »

Or perhaps I expect we're not going to reach herd immunity levels immediately regardless of my own vaccination status.

Like I said, I have no problem with restrictions being eased/removed sooner for those that have been vaccinated.

If you're confident in the efficacy of the vaccine, then why would you prefer not to sit next to someone at dinner who hasn't taken the vaccine?

Snooker Loopy · 13-04-2021 10:13AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Thought we were serious about preventing hospitalisation and serious illness!? Which is what vaccines are for!

When did it become "getting rid of covid"?

It would explain a lot however. Seeing matters through the prism of zero covid would lead you to saying such things like "vaccines aren't the way out"

I don't know whether Covid can be gotten rid of, nobody knows that for sure. The best evidence we have suggests it probably can't be. What this is about is getting rid of Covid as a scourge. If you have a rat infestation, you know you aren't going to kill off all the rats in the world, but you take steps to ensure they don't get into your house again. Covid, now, remains very much a scourge in our house.

Doesn't it?

Perhaps, if we reach 65%, or better still, 85-90% vaccination, that will no longer be the case, that's what we hope. The more people who are vaccinated the better. It also depends on whether the world can be vaccinated, it depends on a super evasive or super transmissible variant not emerging, it depends on whether countries can bring their public health responses up to speed. Currently, Ireland's public health capacity is a joke.

Is there anybody who advocates Zero Covid/aggressive suppression who says vaccines are not a major part of the way out?

I haven't come across any? Have you?

I find it bizarre how Zero Covid/aggressive suppression has become such a lightning rod for abuse, given that the idea is to put in place a framework which would allow societies to open up safely.

Yet many of the same people who are complaining the most that we're still at Level 5, or sort of Level 5, are the most anti-Zero Covid/aggressive suppression. That's a contradiction, it makes no sense.

Sobit1964 · 13-04-2021 10:13AM

Graham wrote: »

Unclean is an odd choice of word.

Why do you think unvaccinated people are likely to be unclean?

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have put that word in your mouth. How would you describe any one declining the vaccine - the people you would prefer to keep segregated?

Graham · 13-04-2021 10:15AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have put that word in your mouth. How would you describe any one declining the vaccine - the people you would prefer to keep segregated?

Unvaccinated would probably be a good descriptor.

Am I unhappy that vaccinated people will see an earlier easing of restrictions? No.

ypres5 · 13-04-2021 10:15AM

Graham wrote: »

No judgment.

If you don't want to be vaccinated that's entirely up to you.

I have absolutely no problem taking the vaccine but keeping harsh restrictions in place and creating what's essentially a second class of people when people can't get the vaccine through no fault of their own is cruelty on the government's part

Sobit1964 · 13-04-2021 10:16AM

Graham wrote: »

Unvaccinated would probably be a good descriptor.

Am I unhappy that vaccinated people will see an earlier easing of restrictions? No.

Bit of a dodge. Say it correctly. You would prefer that the unvaccinated be segregated.

francogarbanzo · 13-04-2021 10:18AM

Graham wrote: »

Unvaccinated would probably be a good descriptor.

Am I unhappy that vaccinated people will see an earlier easing of restrictions? No.

And what about people who never decide to take the vaccine? Or decide to wait a year or more? Should they be allowed to eat in restaurants, drink in a pub, go see a movie in a theatre?

Snooker Loopy · 13-04-2021 10:19AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So reading the papers here and it turns out that the "UK variant" is no more deadly than the others..

(page 6 of the Indo but multiple online reports as well)

Of course, seeing as Covid in general is only deadly to a very very small number of people, and even then death is by no means a certainty, it makes the fear mongering from NPHET even more unjustified.

But, seeing as the talk from them is already about "fourth waves" and their usual hyper cautious approach, this news will likely be completely ignored.

The worry about the UK variant has never been about its lethality - it has always been largely assumed that it wasn't much more lethal if at all. The worry is and has always been about its transmissiblity.

A 60% more transmissible virus with the same lethality as original Covid is much worse for the public health situation than a 60% more lethal virus with the same transmissibility.

Sobit1964 · 13-04-2021 10:22AM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

And what about people who never decide to take the vaccine? Or decide to wait a year or more? Should they be allowed to eat in restaurants, drink in a pub, go see a movie in a theatre?

We could have special water fountains, sections of buses, different schools, and prohibit them from things like owning a business. It's almost like words like rats and plague were used before to seperate people. I can't quite recall where.

francogarbanzo · 13-04-2021 10:24AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

We could have special water fountains, sections of buses, different schools, and prohibit them from things like owning a business. It's almost like words like rats and plague were used before to seperate people. I can't quite recall where.

It's OK because it'll be "separate but equal."

FlubberJones · 13-04-2021 10:25AM

Super to see all the activity around Cherrywood this morning, impressive how they have ramped it up (although I do assume they were in preparation for a while) so quickly. I would imagine they'll hit this as hard as they can now, they must be months behind at this stage

I don't have the same joy for the amount of traffic on the roads but I suppose the kids have to get to school somehow

dalyboy · 13-04-2021 10:26AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

We could have special water fountains, sections of buses, different schools, and prohibit them from things like owning a business. It's almost like words like rats and plague were used before to seperate people. I can't quite recall where.

I can’t wait to see the first pub with the sign outside the door reading “no unvaccinated allowed”

It’ll be an iconic sight for reeling in the years

Snooker Loopy · 13-04-2021 10:30AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

We could have special water fountains, sections of buses, different schools, and prohibit them from things like owning a business. It's almost like words like rats and plague were used before to seperate people. I can't quite recall where.

I'm not quite sure at what point over the last year we started seeing ludicrous comparisons of sensible public health measures to the Nazis.

Probably around the time people in the public eye with actual Nazi sympathies decided they would be pro-virus in order to fuel their insane culture war, sorry, kulturkampf.

Sobit1964 · 13-04-2021 10:34AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

I'm not quite sure at what point over the last year we started seeing ludicrous comparisons of sensible public health measures to the Nazis.

Probably around the time people in the public eye with actual Nazi sympathies decided they would be pro-virus in order to fuel their insane culture war, sorry, kulturkampf.

Some people are now 'pro-virus' nazis?

God that gave me a good laugh.

francogarbanzo · 13-04-2021 10:36AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

I'm not quite sure at what point over the last year we started seeing ludicrous comparisons of sensible public health measures to the Nazis.

Probably around the time people in the public eye with actual Nazi sympathies decided they would be pro-virus in order to fuel their insane culture war, sorry, kulturkampf.

Do you have a peer-reviewed source for that claim? Conspiracy Forum is thataway >>>

Totally agree with you. Restrictions of movement, shutting down business, closing schools, mandatory hotel quarantine, police checkpoints on the roads, no more gyms or outdoor activities outside your 5k, no visiting family, vaccine passports -- these are nothing but good old fashioned sensible public health policy!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings