Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

rob808 · 13-04-2021 08:49AM

W123-80's wrote: »

That's exactly it.
If it works for the UK than we and the rest of the planet won't be far behind them.
If it doesn't work for the UK than we are all in a bother.

They only problem is the EU and Ireland are far behind the UK.The UK secured the french vaccines that will be ready in October by Valneva, 60 million doses.The sleeping EU sometime in 2022.

Faugheen · 13-04-2021 08:50AM

Graham wrote: »

Obviously there's some detail missing in your post there but surely it doesn't need to be 'more deadly' for more people to die from it if it spreads easier so more people get it.

Imagine having to point this out.

PintOfView · 13-04-2021 08:58AM

bluelamp wrote: »

Belittling responses make these people feel really good.

They really don't consider how incredibly difficult a lot people are finding this time, both mentally and financially.

They're fine, so they think everyone else should be too.

Which is ironic, because they also love calling people selfish for opposing any restriction.

I completely acknowledge how difficult it has been for a lot of people (I've had it easy in comparison)
And I've no problem with people letting off steam.

What I do take issue with is the conspiracy angle, by people who are ignoring that we have a virus on the loose,
and who are peddling the nonsense that there is a 'them' that are out to enslave us, and keep us wearing masks forever, etc.
That kind of thinking is a virus in itself, and not fixable with a vaccine.

On the ground things are moving in the right direction.
This time last year there was talk of it taking years to find a vaccine.
Today it's looking like most people in the country will be vaccinated in a few months.

Now is not the time to lose hope,
when things are looking very optimistic just a short bit more down the road from here.

opinionated3 · 13-04-2021 08:58AM

Graham wrote: »

If it means in country restrictions can be eased sooner for everyone else and it reduces the number of cases being imported, I would have thought that was a good thing.

Case numbers and hospitalisations are dropping and vaccinations are increasing. I can see why we wouldn't want to undo that.

The thousands of people that work in aviation might not agree with you. We're not all in this together, remember that.

_Kaiser_ · 13-04-2021 08:58AM

PintOfView wrote: »

What's your assessment of the risk from the South African variant, or the Brazilian one?

See the second last line in my post. but I'll say it again...

- 13 months on <5000 deaths, the majority in the very elderly/underlying issues category and compounded by the screw-up in the nursing homes early on

- Cancer, dementia and other deaths accounted for more than that number over a 3 month period last summer. The loss or delay of essential other medical services during the last year is a significantly greater risk to public and personal health

- 4.9 million people in the country, 98%+ of which are at little to no significant risk from Covid as evidenced by 12 months of data

- Aside from the first 2 months, our response and the measures that have been imposed on the entire population has been completely disproportionate to the actual levels of risk involved

- Case numbers mean nothing. The OUTCOME of those cases is the important metric and those outcomes have, and continue to be, overwhelmingly positive

- Covid is, as we saw last year, a seasonal virus yet despite this we are more restricted now than we were last year given that we have vaccines and actual data to work with

TL;DR - the medical risk from Covid is minimal in the overwhelming majority of cases as evidenced by both the data and simple observation of events over the last year, yet our leaders and NPHET continue to behave as though there's a deadly mass killer in the air which simply is not true.

Klonker · 13-04-2021 09:03AM

Graham wrote: »

Obviously there's some detail missing in your post there but surely it doesn't need to be 'more deadly' for more people to die from it if it spreads easier so more people get it.

But we have been consistently been told its more infectious (spreads easier) and more deadly (higher fatality rate)

But every time MM made a speech we've been told it spreads easier and is more deadly. We've been told that a lot of younger people are being hospitalised. Ronan Glynn told us even after elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated 3.5% of cases will need to be hospitalised because of this more deadly strain.

The narrative wasn't that its deadlier because more people will get it due to it being more infectious, that's obvious. Their point was its deadlier because of a higher fatality rate so don't go pretending this wasn't what we were told or that it hasn't been used by NPHET and government to scare us. Let's see if Ronan Glynn uses the deadlier line today in his address to the covid committee.

TomSweeney · 13-04-2021 09:05AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56727568

I can imagine a lot of people will be reacting like below however

But it is great to see people out again....

lawred2 · 13-04-2021 09:05AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

Vaccines are a large part of the way out, but they aren't the whole ball game. We don't yet know how many people will actually get vaccinated. It could well be we run into a wall at around 60-65% and that isn't enough - and in any event we're miles away from that right now. The US is doing very well with vaccines now yet Michigan is exploding with cases and cases means deaths.

If you've ever had rats get into your house, the first thing Rentokil will say is that their avenue/s of entry into the house need to be blocked up. If the avenue/s of entry are not blocked up, the rats will return. So it is with Covid.

Mandatory hotel quarantine is a litmus test of whether we're actually serious about getting rid of this scourge or not.

If we are serious about getting rid of Covid, we'll impose it for all foreign travel. If we're not, we won't.

We've made the same mistake three times now. Those who suggest making it for a fourth time have no credibility.

Thought we were serious about preventing hospitalisation and serious illness!? Which is what vaccines are for!

When did it become "getting rid of covid"?

It would explain a lot however. Seeing matters through the prism of zero covid would lead you to saying such things like "vaccines aren't the way out"

ypres5 · 13-04-2021 09:06AM

Klonker wrote: »

But we have been consistently been told its more infectious (spreads easier) and more deadly (higher fatality rate)

But every time MM made a speech we've been told it spreads easier and is more deadly. We've been told that a lot of younger people are being hospitalised. Ronan Glynn told us even after elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated 3.5% of cases will need to be hospitalised because of this more deadly strain.

The narrative wasn't that its deadlier because more people will get it due to it being more infectious, that's obvious. Their point was its deadlier because of a higher fatality rate so don't go pretending this wasn't what we were told or that it hasn't been used by NPHET and government to scare us. Let's see if Ronan Glynn uses the deadlier line today in his address to the covid committee.

Not to mention the whole 'like a new virus' line that was shat out by martin in front of the country on two separate occasions

gozunda · 13-04-2021 09:06AM

Penfailed wrote: »

It's not due to a cowardly government delegating all responsibility to NPHET. It's down to a lack of vaccine. They've one million doses in arms in the north and a similar number in the south. Population of the north is almost 2 million. Population of the south is almost 5 million. You still can't get a haircut in the north...

True.

The funny thing is that pubs there (NI) aren't even open yet. With plans when they do so - will be on a phased basis.

I do love when the critics have to cherrypick random locations to use as a big stick to beat us with with regard to the easing of restrictions

13-04-2021 09:07AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Funny that the same people who were calling for the country to be open for Christmas were nowhere to be seen in January when it went tits up.

Now they’re back in droves doing the same thing, making up random fantasy conspiracies about banana republics and cherry picking statements from the media to suit their agenda instead of actually listening to what NPHET has to say.

And those some people are first to call others fearmongers when in reality that’s all they are doing. Whipping people up into a frenzy by taking one statement such as ‘fourth wave’ in isolation with zero context as to why that statement is being made.

Meanwhile, the government who continue to hide behind this are nowhere to be seen so they can let NPHET take all the flak and all of the abuse. Making sh*t up that ‘it doesn’t impact them in any way’ when they and their families (Glynn for example has two very young children) have to abide by the same restrictions as the rest of us. But no, nope, the jobs are the only thing that matters here.

Anyone who continues to believe in those narratives are being taken for fools by the government, yet some of them have enough cheek for a second arse to tell everyone else to ‘wake up’.

How are they made up? Vaccine passports, once a conspiracy theory, is now a reality.

What do you think of this: https://twitter.com/TraceyOMahony81/status/1381345897683030017

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:08AM

Klonker wrote: »

But we have been consistently been told its more infectious (spreads easier) and more deadly (higher fatality rate).

It's almost as if we learn more over time.

As I said if the fatality rate is the same but it spreads to more people, the result will be more deaths.

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:12AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's a good thing for those who only want to leave the country for tourism purposes. It's not so good for those who have family living abroad. Ireland relies a lot on foreign workers. Do you not see how implementing travel restrictions as harsh as we have could make foreign workers hesitant to come here, even after the pandemic?

Of course travel restrictions are harsh, temporarily inconvenient and expensive.

Still preferable to imposing more/longer restrictions on the larger population.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We could also reduce those by reinstating the 5km limit and closing the schools again. Thankfully, we don't seem to be considering that because of the improving virus situation. All I'm asking is that the same logic be extended to foreign travel. Instead we seem to be going backwards in that regard.

You realise that there is no "improving virus situation" for a lot of countries? That's the point of the restrictions.

PintOfView · 13-04-2021 09:13AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

See the second last line in my post. but I'll say it again...

- 13 months on <5000 deaths, the majority in the very elderly/underlying issues category and compounded by the screw-up in the nursing homes early on
Yes, but that's in the context of a lockdown. How many would have died, and have other long term issues, if we hadn't had a lockdown

- Cancer, dementia and other deaths accounted for more than that number over a 3 month period last summer. The loss or delay of essential other medical services during the last year is a significantly greater risk to public and personal health
Have you a link for that? It doesn't seem plausible!
Monthly deaths went up dramatically in April and May last year, but returned to average by July and August!

- 4.9 million people in the country, 98%+ of which are at little to no significant risk from Covid as evidenced by 12 months of data
That still leaves about 100,000 people at risk, with more at risk of long term issues even if they don't die! That's hardly insignificant!

- Aside from the first 2 months, our response and the measures that have been imposed on the entire population has been completely disproportionate to the actual levels of risk involved
I don't see that as self evident.

- Case numbers mean nothing. The OUTCOME of those cases is the important metric and those outcomes have, and continue to be, overwhelmingly positive
I would go along with outcomes being more important than cases.

- Covid is, as we saw last year, a seasonal virus yet despite this we are more restricted now than we were last year given that we have vaccines and actual data to work with
When you say seasonal it sounds like you're suggesting it can only transmit in Dec/Jan.
However we had our peak in April last year. What would we have had if we didn't lock down last year?

TL;DR - the medical risk from Covid is minimal in the overwhelming majority of cases as evidenced by both the data and simple observation of events over the last year, yet our leaders and NPHET continue to behave as though there's a deadly mass killer in the air which simply is not true.

see above in blue

Lumen · 13-04-2021 09:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How are they made up? Vaccine passports, once a conspiracy theory, is now a reality.

What do you think of this: https://twitter.com/TraceyOMahony81/status/1381345897683030017

She's retweeting Ben Gilroy so I think I'll pass, thanks.

average_runner · 13-04-2021 09:14AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How are they made up? Vaccine passports, once a conspiracy theory, is now a reality.

What do you think of this: https://twitter.com/TraceyOMahony81/status/1381345897683030017

Vaccine passport has existed for years, you can't get into certain countries without vaccines.

Some people never explore or travel far!!!

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:15AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

See the second last line in my post. but I'll say it again...

- 13 months on <5000 deaths

you understand that's a good thing right?

Klonker · 13-04-2021 09:16AM

Graham wrote: »

It's almost as if we learn more over time.

As I said if the fatality rate is the same but it spreads to more people, the result will be more deaths.

Yes, we all now that but let's be clear, when people say deadlier they mean higher fatality rate. People know the difference between more infectious and deadlier.

Let's just see now that we know its not deadlier will NPHET and our government stop calling it so. Do you think it was wrong of MM to mention this strain as being deadlier like it was a conclusive fact on more than one occasion?

13-04-2021 09:16AM

average_runner wrote: »

Vaccine passport has existed for years, you can't get into certain countries without vaccines.

Some people never explore or travel far!!!

To go to the pub, restaurant, to a concert, a football match? That kind of vaccine passport existed before?

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:17AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Vaccine passports, once a conspiracy theory, is now a reality.

Good

I didn't spot anyone suggesting they were a conspiracy theory, no doubt somebody did. TBH, they just make sense.

Lumen · 13-04-2021 09:18AM

Klonker wrote: »

Yes, we all know that but let's be clear, when people say deadlier they mean higher fatality rate. People know the difference between more infecius and deadlier.

Let's just see know that we know its not deadlier will NPHET and our government stop calling it so. Do you think it was wrong of MM to mention this strain as being deadlier like it was a conclusive fact that it was on more than one occasion?

It's certainly deadlier to an unvaccinated population.

TomSweeney · 13-04-2021 09:19AM

thebaz wrote: »

A few more test centres are opening up , every few days these test centres are opening up , and then they wonder why cases arent dropping :-

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/hse-opens-two-more-walk-in-covid-test-centres-40306214.html

I really wonder when we will ever get out of lockdown , given restictions now with AZ vaccine, which is our only hope of ever living a free life , and given the extreme safe world many seam to want to live in today.

Unfortunately society seems to have developed an addiction to restrictions, it's bizarre, it makes no sense but here we are ...

PintOfView · 13-04-2021 09:20AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How are they made up? Vaccine passports, once a conspiracy theory, is now a reality.

What do you think of this: https://twitter.com/TraceyOMahony81/status/1381345897683030017

When were vaccine certs (what you call passports) a conspiracy theory?

There have been vaccine certs for 50 years, and you can't travel to some countries in Africa without a vaccine cert (eg. yellow fever)

13-04-2021 09:20AM

Lumen wrote: »

She's retweeting Ben Gilroy so I think I'll pass, thanks.

You can read the legislation. It's set to be the law that vaccinated persons only can have gatherings in their own home.

Who cares who she retweets. You can ignore that retweet.

13-04-2021 09:22AM

PintOfView wrote: »

When were vaccine certs (what you call passports) a conspiracy theory?

There have been vaccine certs for 50 years, and you can't travel to some countries in Africa without a vaccine cert (eg. yellow fever)

I don't know how many times it has to be pointed out that a vaccine requirement for international travel is not the same as a requirement to be vaccinated to live a half normal life in your own country. It's a domestic vaccine passport that is to be rolled out.

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:22AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Unfortunately society seems to have developed an addiction to restrictions, it's bizarre, it makes no sense but here we are ...

You know why it doesn't make sense.

It hasn't happened.

the kelt · 13-04-2021 09:23AM

Klonker wrote: »

Yes, we all now that but let's be clear, when people say deadlier they mean higher fatality rate. People know the difference between more infectious and deadlier.

Let's just see now that we know its not deadlier will NPHET and our government stop calling it so. Do you think it was wrong of MM to mention this strain as being deadlier like it was a conclusive fact on more than one occasion?

Its almost like saying It is more transmissible and it is significantly more dangerous. Less than a week ago could lead to confusion

But confusion in messaging seems the be the norm these days anyway to be honest.

Whatever people views are on restrictions one way or the other the level of communication and clarity has been appalling im sure all can agree.

https://www.gov.ie/en/speech/6d7c3-speech-by-the-taoiseach-micheal-martin-announcing-new-public-health-measures-coming-into-place-on-april-12/

W123-80's · 13-04-2021 09:25AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56727568

I can imagine a lot of people will be reacting like below however

But it is great to see people out again....

The biggest health & safety concern in that social setting is the guy wearing the white blazer with nothing underneath :pac:

Graham · 13-04-2021 09:25AM

the kelt wrote: »

Its almost like saying It is more transmissible and it is significantly more dangerous. Less than a week ago could lead to confusion

it's almost like you learn more about something the more you study it.

13-04-2021 09:25AM

Graham wrote: »

Good

I didn't spot anyone suggesting they were a conspiracy theory, no doubt somebody did. TBH, they just make sense.

I could understand it for international travel, but the idea that the government can coerce people into taking a vaccine to live a half normal life (no guarantee the masks and the other things will go even with the passport) radically alters the relationship between citizen and State.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings