The trashing of our parks and beaches

malinheader · 01-04-2021 11:24am

GreeBo wrote: »

Same **** again in Bushy this morning, carnage all over the place.

Its bloody hard enough to drag my sorry ass out for a run without having to dodge bottles and cans, not to mention the seemingly hundreds of trays of curry chips.

Money back on glass bottles and cans would make a big difference I think, still the foil and polystyrene take away trays are a problem.

Biker79 · 01-04-2021 11:24am

This country has produced too many teenagers with zero values.

Dragged up, not brought up.

The absolute state of an inner city Luas stop yesterday, I wont say which one. People sat on the bench eating McDonalds and left every single item on the ground.

With a bin 5 meters away!

malinheader · 01-04-2021 11:27am

Biker79 wrote: »

This country has produced too many teenagers with zero values.

Dragged up, not brought up.

The absolute state of an inner city Luas stop yesterday, I wont say which one. People sat on the bench eating McDonalds and left every single item on the ground.

With a bin 5 meters away!

I wonder would the way to go would be to fine the likes of McDonald's and KFC etc

Biker79 · 01-04-2021 11:34am

malinheader wrote: »

I wonder would the way to go would be to fine the likes of McDonald's and KFC etc

I believe Zero tolerance is the only solution.

Cant keep sidestepping the issue of personal responsibility and civic pride. Can't always be somebody else's fault.

Fines issued from wireless handheld devices linked to PPS numbers, so that the Taxman will deduct the fine, is one idea.

Actually, I'm beginning to come around to the Chinese way of managing these issues:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained

corks finest · 01-04-2021 11:38am

malinheader wrote: »

Money back on glass bottles and cans would make a big difference I think, still the foil and polystyrene take away trays are a problem.

They do it in Germany ( bottles )

malinheader · 01-04-2021 11:43am

Whenever you go to McDonald's or KFC etc your handed a bag full of plastic, paper and cardboard that there is no need for. They don't care where it ends up after it leaves the shop, and most of it is for attracting people and advertising.
All I want is my food, ok you will need a small amount of paper to wrap and separate but not a car load of rubbish after two people have eaten that won't even fit into the bin outside.
Until the main money makers in this problem are bought to book the problem will remain.

whisky_galore · 01-04-2021 11:53am

Biker79 wrote: »

This country has produced too many teenagers with zero values.

Dragged up, not brought up.

The absolute state of an inner city Luas stop yesterday, I wont say which one. People sat on the bench eating McDonalds and left every single item on the ground.

With a bin 5 meters away!

No no, these are the young, environmentally aware disciples of Greta, they are our future.
(God help us)

MrMusician18 · 01-04-2021 12:08pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

No no, these are the young, environmentally aware disciples of Greta, they are our future.
(God help us)

After seeing the pictures of Milltown it's fairly galling to think that young people will lecture the rest of society on environmental matters when these filthy pigs will not clean up after themselves. Never mind covid, the way they left the park was utterly shameful and there was not one person there that didn't know it was wrong. They just didn't care.

First, a return scheme should be set up for bottles and cans, secondly take aways should be responsible for the paper and foil waste they and their customers produce and three, there should be absolutely zero tolerance for this. Cans bottles should carry a unique mark that can be traced back to the purchaser and they should receive punishing fines and litter picking duty for this.

Yes the above sounds expensive but the only way to solve it is to make business and individuals responsible for waste. Civic mindedness is a failed concept here.

whisky_galore · 01-04-2021 12:52pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yes the above sounds expensive but the only way to solve it is to make business and individuals responsible for waste. Civic mindedness is a failed concept here.

Sending out council workers to pick up everything from black bags, dumped furniture and appliances is probably just as expensive.

Some form of public awareness is badly wanting for those that can be shamed and real consequences for those who cannot.

Lollipops23 · 01-04-2021 1:15pm

I know bored youths have always been a problem, but it seems to be getting worse of late.

But even when me and my mates used to kn*cker drink in the park as teens we at least picked up after ourselves and binned our rubbish.

GreeBo · 01-04-2021 1:41pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I know bored youths have always been a problem, but it seems to be getting worse of late.

But even when me and my mates used to kn*cker drink in the park as teens we at least picked up after ourselves and binned our rubbish.

If you can bring it with you then you can bring it home with you.

Thats always been my opinion, but when you see people eat McDonalds in their car and then dump it out the window when they are 2m from a bin, you can only despair.

BraveDonut · 01-04-2021 1:54pm

Scumbag parents raise scumbag kids because there are no consequences.
My teenagers know that I would freak out if I found out that they had littered - and they know that there would be consequences.

PhilOssophy · 01-04-2021 2:00pm

Its not just scumbag kids and scumbag parents. Remember this hero - he can afford a 152 SUV but won't pay 20 quid to get rid of his rubbish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugkt8lgC-3w&ab_channel=EricKeegan

PhilOssophy · 01-04-2021 2:07pm

The only thing Irish people understand is "how much is this costing ME". Not the council, ME.
Only when people think "this is costing me 50c if I leave it here" will people think.
Either that, or we need to start having plain clothes Gardai fining people or CCTV in parks and highlighting these scumbags as they leave.
It is despairing to think that we have to deal with this every time we've a few fine days.

But the reality is, unless it is costing people in their own pocket, people don't care.

Also - I know I said add it to the property tax above - whether a landlord pays that and gets it from tenants, is up to themselves to sort out.

Pawwed Rig · 01-04-2021 2:35pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Also - I know I said add it to the property tax above - whether a landlord pays that and gets it from tenants, is up to themselves to sort out.

Well that is the point. You are advocating personal responsibility but if it is a landlord levy (whether that be a private LL, vulture fund or local council) then there is no benefit for the tenant not to be a pig. Unless there is recourse on the tenant in this situation then it is pointless other than as a revenue generator and the situation will not change.
There is no political appetite for levying tenants with anything (see LPT, water charges, NPPR etc).

PhilOssophy · 01-04-2021 2:39pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Well that is the point. You are advocating personal responsibility but if it is a landlord levy (whether that be a private LL, vulture fund or local council) then there is no benefit for the tenant not to be a pig. Unless there is recourse on the tenant in this situation then it is pointless other than as a revenue generator and the situation will not change.
There is no political appetite for levying tenants with anything (see LPT, water charges, NPPR etc).

I lived in the UK and we paid for water, council taxes, TV license etc as tenants. I get what you are saying though.

All a landlord has to do is up the rent to cover it.

JamesM · 01-04-2021 2:41pm

When someone complained on social media about young people getting out of their minds drunk, making a show of themselves, abusing people and littering in the local park, they were attacked and abused themselves and told that the park would survive, but the poor young people have been through so much and we should be caring for them and not embarrassing them on social media and worrying about a bit of litter. Adults also trash the same park with doggie bags, coffee cups and face masks.

Pawwed Rig · 01-04-2021 2:50pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I lived in the UK and we paid for water, council taxes, TV license etc as tenants. I get what you are saying though.

All a landlord has to do is up the rent to cover it.

Possibly but it still does not give the tenant any motivation unless the landlord adjusts the rent monthly by personally monitoring compliance (which would be impossible and illegal). Also LL cannot just up the rent anymore so that option is out.

I think the UK systems is better tbh but there is no political here will to do something similar and if they tried we would have water charge protest part 2.

SteM · 01-04-2021 3:00pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

All a landlord has to do is up the rent to cover it.

Not so straightforward in RPZs though.

Dick Turnip · 01-04-2021 3:08pm

accensi0n wrote: »

I'd say this particular point has been noted a million times but what really gets me is the littering of cigarette butts by people that wouldn't normally litter.

It's so strange, I see senior managers in my work do it who would never throw a wrapper on the ground.

I get exactly what you are saying as I was the same as your senior manager when I smoked. Haven't smoked in 6 years but when I did I used not think twice about flicking a butt on the ground but I would never drop any other litter.

It was only after I quit smoking and saw someone else doing it that the cognitive dissonance evaporated and I realised they were one and the same thing.

BanditLuke · 01-04-2021 7:44pm

BraveDonut wrote: »

Scumbag parents raise scumbag kids because there are no consequences.
My teenagers know that I would freak out if I found out that they had littered - and they know that there would be consequences.

Unbelievable really and from all economic backgrounds also. Just shows money can't buy class. Seems to be a particular problem in well off areas tbh.

Zebra3 · 01-04-2021 9:06pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Sending out council workers to pick up everything from black bags, dumped furniture and appliances is probably just as expensive.

Some form of public awareness is badly wanting for those that can be shamed and real consequences for those who cannot.

Here’s an idea.

Just leave the parks and other areas that are trashed as they are for a couple of weeks after.

Let people go nuts about it and it might start to sink in about their behaviour.

kildare lad · 01-04-2021 9:26pm

It looks like England has the same problem with scruffy fxckers aswell

https://twitter.com/E_Beardmore/status/1377140682490474496?s=20

BorneTobyWilde · 01-04-2021 9:33pm

It's normal, rubbish is only there for a few hours and it's all cleaned up, it's an ongoing thing. Lots of people have jobs doing this, it's not a one off, they do it 24/7 .

Pawwed Rig · 01-04-2021 9:45pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Here’s an idea.

Just leave the parks and other areas that are trashed as they are for a couple of weeks after.

Let people go nuts about it and it might start to sink in about their behaviour.

It doesn't work. The nicer areas have nice people who will clean up the public areas. Other places have parks that look like tip heads and accumulate more and more rubbish. Have a wander in Darndale park if you're ever up that way. It is a prime example.

Piollaire · 02-04-2021 4:05am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It doesn't work. The nicer areas have nice people who will clean up the public areas. Other places have parks that look like tip heads and accumulate more and more rubbish. Have a wander in Darndale park if you're ever up that way. It is a prime example.

I'll take your word for it. That's one part of town I'm terrified of my car breaking down in, not to mind going for a wander.

PhilOssophy · 02-04-2021 8:04am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It's normal, rubbish is only there for a few hours and it's all cleaned up, it's an ongoing thing. Lots of people have jobs doing this, it's not a one off, they do it 24/7 .

And that makes it alright? I loved the Australian attitude. We were getting a map of the Noosa Everglades and the man giving it to us said "if you bring it in to this park, you bring it back out with you".

A friend of mine was told going in to Kakadu "you leave no rubbish in this park, we've had problems with your countrymen before in this regard".

If only we could have that level of civic pride and realise our rubbish is not somebody else's problem.

Antares35 · 02-04-2021 8:53am

Here they are saying it's the pandemic's fault, it's the good weather's fault, it's the infrastructure's fault. No...it's the scumbags' fault.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/its-about-personal-responsibility-increase-in-dublin-littering-linked-to-pandemic-and-good-weather/ar-BB1fecqu?li=BBr5HCU

malinheader · 02-04-2021 9:17am

This is what the green party should be tackling at the moment. This is a massive problem throughout the whole country cities and rural.
No point having to wade through dirty streets, parks and beaches to shout about omissions, turf cutting and car sharing etc. When we can't solve an issue that is affecting
a lot more people and hasn't been given a serious thought.
If they can't come up with a solution for this not much hope with the rest.
As I have said time to target the businesses who churn out totally ott packaging as well as the litter louts.

Antares35 · 02-04-2021 9:42am

Like many things it just comes down to money at the end of the day. You need to hit people where it hurts. It costs 15euro to bring an entire car full of rubbish to Ballymount amenity, but they'd rather drive up the Dublin mountains and dump their rubbish there. I've seen bathroom suites, mattresses etc all dumped. For the sake of fifteen euro. Maddening.

02-04-2021 11:10am

malinheader wrote: »

This is what the green party should be tackling at the moment. This is a massive problem throughout the whole country cities and rural.
No point having to wade through dirty streets, parks and beaches to shout about omissions, turf cutting and car sharing etc. When we can't solve an issue that is affecting
a lot more people and hasn't been given a serious thought.
If they can't come up with a solution for this not much hope with the rest.
As I have said time to target the businesses who churn out totally ott packaging as well as the litter louts.

On a sunny day in Clontarf there will often be Beshoff packaging and wrapping littered along the seafront, however sometimes this is because sea gulls take the packaging out of bins that are left out by Dublin City Council that aren't fit for purpose (they are like big oil drums with no lids on). I can't stand litter but do think it would be unfair on this business to be fined because the bins aren't adequate. And if they are paying rates to the Council then a contribution has been made by them.

It seems like a catch 22 though, if the council put out more bins then some individuals might start using them to dispose of household waste rather than pay bin charges.

I like the earlier suggestion of incorporating waste charges into local property tax and then people may not go out of their way to dump rubbish in ditches, public bins etc as they have a paid for option sitting outside their house. I think my bin charges are €20 a month which is great value for a weekly collection that is far more convenient than filling the car with rubbish to dispose of up the Dublin mountains.

In St Anne's this morning I saw a pile of empty cans and bottles left beside a bin from last night's drinking. The bin was full but at least those people left the area as tidy as possible (obviously they could have brought the rubbish home or to the next bin) but it was a lot better than the same field I saw on Tuesday morning which resembled the UK video linked a few posts above.

More bins!

malinheader · 02-04-2021 11:44am

downtheroad wrote: »

On a sunny day in Clontarf there will often be Beshoff packaging and wrapping littered along the seafront, however sometimes this is because sea gulls take the packaging out of bins that are left out by Dublin City Council that aren't fit for purpose (they are like big oil drums with no lids on). I can't stand litter but do think it would be unfair on this business to be fined because the bins aren't adequate. And if they are paying rates to the Council then a contribution has been made by them.

It seems like a catch 22 though, if the council put out more bins then some individuals might start using them to dispose of household waste rather than pay bin charges.

I like the earlier suggestion of incorporating waste charges into local property tax and then people may not go out of their way to dump rubbish in ditches, public bins etc as they have a paid for option sitting outside their house. I think my bin charges are €20 a month which is great value for a weekly collection that is far more convenient than filling the car with rubbish to dispose of up the Dublin mountains.

In St Anne's this morning I saw a pile of empty cans and bottles left beside a bin from last night's drinking. The bin was full but at least those people left the area as tidy as possible (obviously they could have brought the rubbish home or to the next bin) but it was a lot better than the same field I saw on Tuesday morning which resembled the UK video linked a few posts above.

More bins!

I agree not always can you blame the source of rubbish for turning up as you say as a result of gulls,but the amount of packaging is ludicrous. If they were penalized for the Amount of waste they generate would be a sensible thing to do and it would also lead to less rubbish being discarded.
The only reason for the amount of boxes and wrappers is to attract and advertise.
As I have said go to the drive through in McDonald's and get two big mac meals. Afterwards your rubbish will hardly fit through the gap of the bin outside. Totally no need for half of it.

Thelonious Monk · 02-04-2021 2:10pm

Yes the promenade in Clontarf can get bad, what I hate most about it is that most of it probably ends up in the sea eventually. I wish we had some kind of litter wardens for popular sites that could hand out fines and direct them to take their rubbish home, although I'd rather it was the remit of the Garda as people might take them seriously and they'd be able to approach anti social groups.

02-04-2021 2:15pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

A friend of mine was told going in to Kakadu "you leave no rubbish in this park, we've had problems with your countrymen before in this regard".
.

I would have been raging at that, I’m not responsible for what any other Irish person does.

coolbeans · 02-04-2021 3:07pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It's normal, rubbish is only there for a few hours and it's all cleaned up, it's an ongoing thing. Lots of people have jobs doing this, it's not a one off, they do it 24/7 .

Very scummy attitude shared by many of our countrymen and women. Good man yourself.

coolbeans · 02-04-2021 3:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I would have been raging at that, I’m not responsible for what any other Irish person does.

I'd save the indignation and realise that they just want their parks kept pristine. We're particularly dirty, well some of us are, and that reputation precedes us where we're all tarred with the same brush. I wouldn't be getting all high and mighty like.

Ger Roe · 02-04-2021 3:15pm

downtheroad wrote: »

On a sunny day in Clontarf there will often be Beshoff packaging and wrapping littered along the seafront, however sometimes this is because sea gulls take the packaging out of bins that are left out by Dublin City Council that aren't fit for purpose (they are like big oil drums with no lids on). I can't stand litter but do think it would be unfair on this business to be fined because the bins aren't adequate. And if they are paying rates to the Council then a contribution has been made by them.

It seems like a catch 22 though, if the council put out more bins then some individuals might start using them to dispose of household waste rather than pay bin charges.

I like the earlier suggestion of incorporating waste charges into local property tax and then people may not go out of their way to dump rubbish in ditches, public bins etc as they have a paid for option sitting outside their house. I think my bin charges are €20 a month which is great value for a weekly collection that is far more convenient than filling the car with rubbish to dispose of up the Dublin mountains.

In St Anne's this morning I saw a pile of empty cans and bottles left beside a bin from last night's drinking. The bin was full but at least those people left the area as tidy as possible (obviously they could have brought the rubbish home or to the next bin) but it was a lot better than the same field I saw on Tuesday morning which resembled the UK video linked a few posts above.

More bins!

I disagree.... you will never have enough bins to solve a problem where people don't understand the issue or don't give a damn. I you bring it... you take it home, then full bins or no bins can't be used as an excuse.

02-04-2021 3:30pm

coolbeans wrote: »

I'd save the indignation and realise that they just want their parks kept pristine. We're particularly dirty, well some of us are, and that reputation precedes us where we're all tarred with the same brush. I wouldn't be getting all high and mighty like.

I’m not dirty and no way would I tolerate being scolded for the actions of other Irish people. There is a whiff of anti Irish prejudice of that park attendants statement. I doubt he’d say the same to the English or French.

Daragh1980 · 02-04-2021 3:43pm

malinheader wrote: »

I wonder would the way to go would be to fine the likes of McDonald's and KFC etc

No.
The solution would be for a vigilante group to kneecap anybody caught littering. It’s an anti-social activity. It was done to joyriders & drug dealers in the past; no reason why people can’t do it again and sort out the litter louts.

MAULBROOK · 02-04-2021 3:57pm

Along with the rubbish left behind im amazed by the amount of full cans and bottles,
Im going to start bring a bag and pick them up.
Free beer, thank you to the light weight scum bags.

02-04-2021 4:09pm

Probably mentioned before but some of the mess left behind in the English parts was crazy too.

PhilOssophy · 02-04-2021 4:16pm

I am convinced though that if everybody had to pay for bins to be picked up as part of property tax, the incentive to leave your rubbish in the park is gone. Many people are decent and would bring it home if it wasn't costing them to do so.
In addition, you can provide lots more bins because the incentive to deliver your household rubbish to the local street bin is gone. In addition, the bin collection service can be properly funded, rather than having a hodge podge approach where local councils spend 90m per county on cleaning up fly tipping. That's probably 250-300 quid per annum for every man/woman/child in Wexford and I would imagine the same is the case in every other county.
That to me is good money after bad.

BattleCorp · 02-04-2021 4:21pm

I'm saying this as an Irish person, an awful lot of Irish people are scummy, dirty fcuks who couldn't give a fcuk about our environment.

I'm well away from parks and beaches in a rural country area and sh1t is regularly dumped along my road, from matresses to tv's and household rubbish.

Strumms · 02-04-2021 4:23pm

1) They don’t give a shît...

And

2) There is zero deterrent...

Too..There is obviously a lack of parenting that influences this behavior.. probably at home their dîckhead parents wouldn’t dream of instilling the virtue of being a civil minded young adult, yes young adult, not children so there is no excuse... but 2021, where parenting is grossly unfashionable...as is taking responsibility for yourself...

Back home growing up we all took our turns doing washing up, setting the table, etc taking the bins out, even hoovering out the car.....cleaning up after yourself was basic, now ?

Pawwed Rig · 02-04-2021 4:29pm

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Along with the rubbish left behind im amazed by the amount of full cans and bottles,
Im going to start bring a bag and pick them up.
Free beer, thank you to the light weight scum bags.

It is usually the cheapest crap in the shop ime. Tesco brand beer? No thanks.

PhilOssophy · 02-04-2021 4:30pm

I would also add - I remember when I have left the cinema / fast food restaurant etc, the amount of people who leave their stuff behind, rather than bringing it over/out to the bin, is unreal.
That is where lessons start, i.e. you aren't at home now - clean up after yourself.

Biker79 · 02-04-2021 4:40pm

Might have already posted this but worth a re-read:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/07/18/628364015/how-rwanda-tidied-up-its-streets-and-the-rest-of-the-country-too?t=1617381613435

MAULBROOK · 02-04-2021 4:41pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is usually the cheapest crap in the shop ime. Tesco brand beer? No thanks.

No yellow pack. Heineken. Bulmers I will draw the line at Bud, caus thats piss

JP Liz V1 · 02-04-2021 4:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You should take a walk in our glorious countryside. The amount of discarded coffee cups and drinks cans and bottles is staggering.

I'm sick of seeing the disposable blue masks on the ground, disgraceful

whisky_galore · 02-04-2021 5:35pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Here’s an idea.

Just leave the parks and other areas that are trashed as they are for a couple of weeks after.

Let people go nuts about it and it might start to sink in about their behaviour.

That never works.

Crap attracts more crap.

The trashing of our parks and beaches

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