The trashing of our parks and beaches

PhilOssophy

But why doesn't it work? Are Irish people really so beyond education and civic pride that we have to treat the symptoms rather than the cause?
I don't believe its good enough to just shrug our shoulders and say "lets pay our way out of the problem".
I definitely don't agree that its a class, age or welfare issue, for me this is 100% about pride of place.

CrankyHaus

Grand so. Do nothing. Get outraged every summer and express that outrage online for internet points.

I'm interested in solutions instead. And any solutions will cost resources; whether that's stricter enforcement, public education, better facilities or any combination thereof.

piplip87

We should take a sensible approach to drinking outdoors. When we were younger we used to go drinking by the lake for example and we cleaned up after ourselves and carried out empties to the bins. We were often stopped by Gardai and they turned a blind eye to a bunch of drunk 17 year olds because we cleaned up after ourselves.

Now you could go to the exact same spot, clean up the exact same way and meet a Garda and get a 50 quid on the spot fine for drinking outdoors. The places we used to go are an absolute mess with cans so bad that I often go clean up the lake shore.

If they allowed outdoor drinking at night in well lit up areas of the shore, put in bins had a bit of love music and put in a chip van. They could have a fantastic atmosphere.

If they

Spanish Eyes

meeeeh wrote: »

We most certainly need more public bins. People wont bring cigarette buds or chewing gums home with them. At the same time paying for domestic refuse collection should be made mandatory and part of local property tax.

Property tax is not paid by renters be they private or council.

Fly tipping happens every day often under cover of other scumbags dumping their day trip rubbish.

Bring back bins on beaches etc. Empty them every day, encourage people to use them, shame them if they don't.

Other than that, there will always be scumbags with no respect for themselves, their surroundings, or anyone else. Quite depressing really.

PhilOssophy

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Grand so. Do nothing. Get outraged every summer and express that outrage online for internet points.

I'm interested in solutions instead. And any solutions will cost resources; whether that's stricter enforcement, public education, better facilities or any combination thereof.

I'm interested in solutions too (as in bring it home and a deposit on all bottles / cans) but I still think this is across our society, be it cinema / fast food restaurants / whatever.

Why is it that a German / Australian / whoever can clean up after themselves, but an Irish person can't?

If a smoker is being treated for lung cancer, the doctor doesn't say "see you next year for another round of chemo", does he?

Canyon86

The amount of rubbish left around the place is a disgrace,

I live in a popular seaside town and people think it is acceptable to leave rubbish "near" an already overflowing bin,

Take your rubbish home / and or other bin,

Granadino

With all the trash on our sidewalks, parks and freeways, and now the racial tension in Ireland, and the crooked cops, I feel like getting out of Ireland and going to Europe.:rolleyes:

dundalkfc10

StackSteevens wrote: »

But all of the pubs are closed. And Centra has a 'no skanger' policy.

Ya will find you will get a pint in Uncle Toms if you know the right people.

Seems you dont know Blackrock aswell as you do

Pawwed Rig

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Also to dis-prove the theory that it is only young people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=Ugkt8lgC-3w&feature=emb_title

So he could afford €30k+ for a 152 car somewhere between 2015 and 2016, and wouldn't pay €15 for a car load of rubbish but it was OK to go out to a bog and dump it.

Fair play to that guy. That is what it needs. People need to be called out on these things and shame them rather than looking the other way trying not to make eye contact.

Your man is probably highly respected GAA man. Cock

MetzgerMeister

If it's too much to ask of someone to bring a bag with them in order to bring their rubbish home then they lack the mental ability to be outside in the first place.

Biker79

Trips to the beach/ forest/ park etc require some planning. What will I wear, is there enough fuel, who is going..do I need to pick someone up... etc

Doesn't take a lot of extra work to factor in, how do we bring our rubbish back?

Truthvader

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

If it's too much to ask of someone to bring a bag with them in order to bring their rubbish home then they lack the mental ability to be outside in the first place.

Think the point is that there is a certain kind of person and it actually is too much to ask. They are out now watching their dog **** on the pavement while dropping their choc ice wrapper. For those people we need to provide bins that are emptied occasionally and litter wardens. The same reasons we have police. There are some people who don't know that it is not OK to steal from other people.

StackSteevens

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Ya will find you will get a pint in Uncle Toms if you know the right people.

Seems you dont know Blackrock aswell as you do

Of course not - I'm only an occasional visitor - and when there, the Neptune is my haunt.

Have you tried the new Larry Goodman restaurant yet - I hear the wagyu steaks are to die for!

PhilOssophy

Truthvader wrote: »

Think the point is that there is a certain kind of person and it actually is too much to ask. They are out now watching their dog **** on the pavement while dropping their choc ice wrapper. For those people we need to provide bins that are emptied occasionally and litter wardens. The same reasons we have police. There are some people who don't know that it is not OK to steal from other people.

The worst days work we did recently was not naming and shaming fly tippers - we should be naming and shaming litter bugs / dog foulers / fly tippers everywhere - I bet the lad in Galway was sorry he was caught more than anything, he was shamed in the most public manner.

But again, I don't know what is unique in the Irish psyche that these problems don't exist in other countries.

dundalkfc10

StackSteevens wrote: »

Of course not - I'm only an occasional visitor - and when there, the Neptune is my haunt.

Have you tried the new Larry Goodman restaurant yet - I hear the wagyu steaks are to die for!

Mullens on the wall does me, then leave the rubbish behind

fly_agaric

PhilOssophy wrote: »

But again, I don't know what is unique in the Irish psyche that these problems don't exist in other countries.

I think the problems are worse in many (even most?) other countries but not as bad in the ones we like to compare "ourselves" to (the rich European countries).

Waffling off the top of my head, there's a few Irish societal/social things that could be factors contributing to this problem.

Ireland was a very rural country with most people not living in cities until quite recently. Generally scratch any dub/city dweller find a "culchie" (...not meaning that term as insult before people pile on). There is a bit of a mindset/culture adjustment needed for living in a city.

Also was a fairly empty and very poor country so far less rubbish and much less of a problem if rural people just chuck the rubbish they do create to rot away slowly or burn it every so often.

A lot of people now live in cities/suburbs/exurbs, the country has become quite rich with people generating lots more waste and the population is also rising very rapidly so the problem becomes worse even if behaviour has not changed very much.

As for fixing it, ideas are in many other posts. Unfortunately it will be slow work I think.

corks finest

PhilOssophy wrote: »

The worst days work we did recently was not naming and shaming fly tippers - we should be naming and shaming litter bugs / dog foulers / fly tippers everywhere - I bet the lad in Galway was sorry he was caught more than anything, he was shamed in the most public manner.

But again, I don't know what is unique in the Irish psyche that these problems don't exist in other countries.

Yes but in britain they are named and shamed and fined

imfml

I love how this topic comes up every year. I walk the beach with my dog 365 days a year. Only days there are an issue are hot summer days when the littering masses flock to the place to leave their dirty nappies and empty 7up bottles behind. It's such a shame they feel they have the right to discard their rubbish in a place that belongs to us all.

CrankyHaus

fly_agaric wrote: »

I think the problems are worse in many (even most?) other countries but not as bad in the ones we like to compare "ourselves" to (the rich European countries).

Waffling off the top of my head, there's a few Irish societal/social things that could be factors contributing to this problem.

Ireland was a very rural country with most people not living in cities until quite recently. Generally scratch any dub/city dweller find a "culchie" (...not meaning that term as insult before people pile on). There is a bit of a mindset/culture adjustment needed for living in a city.

Also was a fairly empty and very poor country so far less rubbish and much less of a problem if rural people just chuck the rubbish they do create to rot away slowly or burn it every so often.

A lot of people now live in cities/suburbs/exurbs, the country has become quite rich with people generating lots more waste and the population is also rising very rapidly so the problem becomes worse even if behaviour has not changed very much.

As for fixing it, ideas are in many other posts. Unfortunately it will be slow work I think.

I was in Ukraine, one of Europe's poorest countries, and the lack of litter was remarkable.
The lack of civic pride in this country, from the top of society to the bottom, is a cultural issue that wealth alone will not fix.

Antares35

Mrsmum wrote: »

It's shocking how people can leave their rubbish behind them but I think it boils down to the fact, the next time they turn up, their rubbish has 'magically' disappeared. In a cruel to be kind kind of way, I actually think it should be just left there, especially now that it's ourselves alone and not tourists that will be seeing it. Let the culprits and they are in their hundreds come back and see the squalor piling up, smell the stinky smells, lay their rugs down in such conditions if they can bear it. When people see their lovely beaches and parks in such a state that they no longer enjoy being there, maybe only then will they 'get it'.

Wouldn't be sure that would work. Where I live people drive to it to fly tip. It isn't the locals. I'm sure their own streets are clean. It's the local residents here who would suffer if the council didn't clean up after these scumbags.

fly_agaric

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I was in Ukraine, one of Europe's poorest countries, and the lack of litter was remarkable.
The lack of civic pride in this country, from the top of society to the bottom, is a cultural issue that wealth alone will not fix.

Yes, I agree. As I posted, wealth is actually making the problem worse here IMO (more rubbish, therefore more littering and fly tipping).

Edgware

imfml wrote: »

I love how this topic comes up every year. I walk the beach with my dog 365 days a year. Only days there are an issue are hot summer days when the littering masses flock to the place to leave their dirty nappies and empty 7up bottles behind. It's such a shame they feel they have the right to discard their rubbish in a place that belongs to us all.

Not to forget all the dog **** left behind by Fluffy and Zitsy

boardise

SteM wrote: »

You seem intent on turning this into a dole bashing thread, littering is a problem that goes beyond people on social welfare I'm afraid.

Dole out the fines -that's what I say.

liamo77

Portmarknock beach earlier. Set on fire.

the purple tin

Granadino wrote: »

With all the trash on our sidewalks, parks and freeways, and now the racial tension in Ireland, and the crooked cops, I feel like getting out of Ireland and going to Europe.:rolleyes:

You ain't from around here, are you, boy?

boardise

MoashoaM wrote: »

I'm sorry for your condition.

Could be something like Irritable Vowel Syndrome.

Truthvader

imfml wrote: »

I love how this topic comes up every year. I walk the beach with my dog 365 days a year. Only days there are an issue are hot summer days when the littering masses flock to the place to leave their dirty nappies and empty 7up bottles behind. It's such a shame they feel they have the right to discard their rubbish in a place that belongs to us all.

I assume "walk the beach with my dog" is code for "bring my dog out for a **** on the beach" Prefer to deal with a discarded 7 Up bottle.

tritriagain

Or maybe he picks up the sh**e , as most responsible dog walkers do. I know where I walk my dogs the people who are on the beach all year round do more to keep it clean than the council. That includes a lot of dog walkers.

Edgware

the purple tin wrote: »

You ain't from around here, are you, boy?

"boy" You are either from Alabama or Cork

corks finest

Edgware wrote: »

"boy" You are either from Alabama or Cork

Everyone referred in Cork city as boy / girl always,no disrespect at all,I called my nana girl until she died over 100,quite normal and across all social divides,long may we stay unique