COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Wolf359f · 25-03-2021 02:54PM

11521323 wrote: »

There's a never-ending stream of excuses on this thread that relieve the HSE of any responsibility here. It's baffling.

People quote the 170k as if they to this day are still sitting in a distribution facility. The HSE are not responsible for vials in doctors fridges that haven't been used yet (that's mainly Pfizer).
Moderna has a buffer, looks to be like 12k and their deliveries are sketchy.
It has also been reported that so far 10k doses have be spoilt, so immediately that 170k drops right down.

The main issue is AZ, there's quite a lot there because of the pause, some people expected that to be all gone on Monday it seems. I'm not defending the HSE, but getting pissy over a single days figures is stupid, wait and see how the week goes. I would be dissapointed if they didn't use up nearly all the supply this week. If not, then they, the HSE deserve critisism.

But if AZ fall short on the next delivery, you can't then start bitching and moaning at the HSE because they used up all the supply this week and now they have nothing next week (cancelled appointments etc....)

RavenBea17b · 25-03-2021 02:55PM

eeepaulo wrote: »

Regardless of what is decided at the summit, I'd love to hear ursula von der leyen start the press conference with either

Due to the c*ntish behaviour of britian......

Or

Inspite of the c*ntish behaviour of britian......

You clearly have an issue with Brits - by calling Britain's behaviour and therefore defacto British people the C word - its a company!!!

I do not agree with what AZUK are doing - but it's not a people - its a company.

Why then didn't the EU contract stipulate differently?

UK has, along with EU and others supplied materials, finances, people power to get a vaccine for COVAX as well as supply chain supplier.
Why don't you start holding the Irish political parties accountable??

What was Ireland doing for vaccine procurement - before the EC took over. I have yet to read anything about that.

Yes, AZUK plants should send some serum, but from what I have been reading UK was also down on what AZUK had promised before Christmas and continues to be.
Why don't Ireland politician grow a pair and order direct?

Pablo Escobar · 25-03-2021 02:58PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Why the need to send out notices?

My cousin got a phonecall from his consultant and a text with his appointment

Is that not a notice?

astrofool · 25-03-2021 02:58PM

titan18 wrote: »

If we're supply not vaccinator limited, and we've a good 90k or so of AZ vaccines that can be used up (I know Moderna and Pfizer we're keeping some back) should that not be used up this week rather than over several weeks. If we can't do that in one week, then it does look like we are vaccinator eliminated.

AdamD wrote: »

Well we can agree to disagree because I'd argue its far more cost-effective for the country to ramp up vaccinators for several days, even if they're idle afterwards, to ensure vaccines aren't left unused. Lockdowns are an economic black hole, the cost of having idle vaccinators is significantly less than the cost of slower rollouts.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Are you comfortable with the fact that even though we had 170k in stock on Sunday we administered just 7k first doses this Monday gone and just 3k first does on the Sunday? You seem happy regardless of what gets administered and always have excuses ready to go.

11521323 wrote: »

There's a never-ending stream of excuses on this thread that relieve the HSE of any responsibility here. It's baffling.

To all these, as long as we're back to 95% of vaccines used in a couple of weeks, then everything is going to plan, if we're not, then then the HSE has messed up.

The HSE is crap at many things, but has been very good at getting vaccinations done, both historically and with the COVID vaccines.

But at least we're off talking about basic maths, and now looking into the logistics of the rollout, which again, a lot of people can't seem to fathom. I don't think people understand the work that went into getting the GP ready for Pfizer vaccines, and getting the MVC organised and in place, and later on, getting pharmacists and dentists setup to vaccinate if needed, it doesn't just happen overnight, it is being planned for, and there will be schedules for everything that is purely driven by supply, and it's no coincidence that where supply is bumpy, logistics is also bumpy, where supply is smooth, see Pfizer, logistics is also smooth.

namloc1980 · 25-03-2021 03:01PM

astrofool wrote: »

To all these, as long as we're back to 95% of vaccines used in a couple of weeks, then everything is going to plan, if we're not, then then the HSE has messed up.

The HSE is crap at many things, but has been very good at getting vaccinations done, both historically and with the COVID vaccines.

But at least we're off talking about basic maths, and now looking into the logistics of the rollout, which again, a lot of people can't seem to fathom. I don't think people understand the work that went into getting the GP ready for Pfizer vaccines, and getting the MVC organised and in place, and later on, getting pharmacists and dentists setup to vaccinate if needed, it doesn't just happen overnight, it is being planned for, and there will be schedules for everything that is purely driven by supply, and it's no coincidence that where supply is bumpy, logistics is also bumpy, where supply is smooth, see Pfizer, logistics is also smooth.

Why are you happy to give them 2-3 weeks to catch up? Surely we should be expecting much much better than that. If we can't expect them to get through a backup of stock then we're truly screwed when it'll come to mass vaccinations.

astrofool · 25-03-2021 03:07PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why are you happy to give them 2-3 weeks to catch up? Surely we should be expecting much much better than that. If we can't expect them to get through a backup of stock then we're truly screwed when it'll come to mass vaccinations.

Because all the detailed reasons I listed in the previous posts?

They are working through a backup of stock, we'll continue to be ahead of most other EU countries, and we'll quickly get back to 95% of vaccines delivered being used. When the supply comes along, the MVC will also open and vaccinate on a schedule based on the supply they have (which if it's like today, will mean they'll be closed on Sunday due to lack of vaccines, you can then work yourself into a rage on a weekly basis).

Nqp15hhu · 25-03-2021 03:09PM

17,124 vaccines in Northern Ireland yesterday. 48.4% of adults have received their first dose.

namloc1980 · 25-03-2021 03:10PM

astrofool wrote: »

Because all the detailed reasons I listed in the previous posts?

They are working through a backup of stock, we'll continue to be ahead of most other EU countries, and we'll quickly get back to 95% of vaccines delivered being used. When the supply comes along, the MVC will also open and vaccinate on a schedule based on the supply they have (which if it's like today, will mean they'll be closed on Sunday due to lack of vaccines, you can then work yourself into a rage on a weekly basis).

Detailed excuses you mean. If you're happy to give up to 3 weeks for them to catch up on the missed AZ doses for just 1 week then fair enough. Meanwhile the economy is tanking and we're in crisis mode. Not like we need a bit of urgency or anything.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 25-03-2021 03:20PM

Juncker coming out today against blocking exports. This is a critical moment in von der Leyen's premiership - if the supply chain grinds to a halt as a result she's done.

Economics101 · 25-03-2021 03:20PM

From to-day's Indo on the low delivery of AX vaccines over the past week.

The most interesting part of this article on a slightly different aspect: the following from Dr Colm Henry of the HSE: "As of March 21 over 204,000 frontline healthcare workers had received their first dose vaccination. We have now significantly exceeded the original estimation of this group by more than 50,000 and are now in a position to begin to close out dose 1 vaccinations for this group"

So the HSE underestimated the number of front line health workers by 50,000? Truly awful incompetence, but quite in keeping with the HSE track record. The information they provide to the Covid Data Hub is just the total vaccinations to date (with a 2 or 3 day lag). I have had to down load the numbers to a spreadsheet each day to get some idea of a time-series of daily or weekly vaccinations.

The same HSE seems to be incapable of counting the numbers of over-70s. I know this directly as my GP has been undersupplied, most probably because the HSE did not have good data on the numbers in the older age-groups (for whom they presumably have issued medical cards).

Apogee · 25-03-2021 03:21PM

HSE Briefing:
-17,500 AZ administered since Sunday to Today
-Estimate of 200-230k in Cohort 4
-Will take until end April/early May to do Cohort 4

Apogee · 25-03-2021 03:23PM

Next week:
-95k-105k total
-75k-80k Cohort 3
-15-20k Cohort 4
-5k Cohort 1

Large delivery still expected from AZ next week.

Stark · 25-03-2021 03:25PM

Economics101 wrote: »

The most interesting part of this article on a slightly different aspect: the following from Dr Colm Henry of the HSE: "As of March 21 over 204,000 frontline healthcare workers had received their first dose vaccination. We have now significantly exceeded the original estimation of this group by more than 50,000 and are now in a position to begin to close out dose 1 vaccinations for this group"

So the HSE underestimated the number of front line health workers by 50,000? Truly awful incompetence, but quite in keeping with the HSE track record. The information they provide to the Covid Data Hub is just the total vaccinations to date (with a 2 or 3 day lag). I have had to down load the numbers to a spreadsheet each day to get some idea of a time-series of daily or weekly vaccinations.

I think he means that they're ahead of expected schedule for frontline workers group.

astrofool · 25-03-2021 03:29PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Detailed excuses you mean. If you're happy to give up to 3 weeks for them to catch up on the missed AZ doses for just 1 week then fair enough. Meanwhile the economy is tanking and we're in crisis mode. Not like we need a bit of urgency or anything.

We're not getting out of crisis mode until we get to 80% vaccine rollout (June/July timeframe), as was pointed out many multiple of times on this thread, the AZ pause does not change the timeline to herd immunity, or change the timeline to the economy reopening, the supply of vaccine is the constraint, as the supply comes in, it gets used. The UK is weeks ahead of us in vaccination % due to their large supply, and are still just as locked down as we are.

Wolf359f · 25-03-2021 03:30PM

Economics101 wrote: »

From to-day's Indo on the low delivery of AX vaccines over the past week.

The most interesting part of this article on a slightly different aspect: the following from Dr Colm Henry of the HSE: "As of March 21 over 204,000 frontline healthcare workers had received their first dose vaccination. We have now significantly exceeded the original estimation of this group by more than 50,000 and are now in a position to begin to close out dose 1 vaccinations for this group"

So the HSE underestimated the number of front line health workers by 50,000? Truly awful incompetence, but quite in keeping with the HSE track record. The information they provide to the Covid Data Hub is just the total vaccinations to date (with a 2 or 3 day lag). I have had to down load the numbers to a spreadsheet each day to get some idea of a time-series of daily or weekly vaccinations.

The same HSE seems to be incapable of counting the numbers of over-70s. I know this directly as my GP has been undersupplied, most probably because the HSE did not have good data on the numbers in the older age-groups (for whom they presumably have issued medical cards).

The HSE wouldn't really know how many private doctor's, dentists, nurses there are in the country though.
All they would know would be those directly employed by the HSE. They did also tend to just go and vaccinated all HCW's rather then taking time identifying the key Frontline ones. I think that was a better choice.

25-03-2021 03:31PM

Economics101 wrote: »

From to-day's Indo on the low delivery of AX vaccines over the past week.

The most interesting part of this article on a slightly different aspect: the following from Dr Colm Henry of the HSE: "As of March 21 over 204,000 frontline healthcare workers had received their first dose vaccination. We have now significantly exceeded the original estimation of this group by more than 50,000 and are now in a position to begin to close out dose 1 vaccinations for this group"

So the HSE underestimated the number of front line health workers by 50,000? Truly awful incompetence, but quite in keeping with the HSE track record. The information they provide to the Covid Data Hub is just the total vaccinations to date (with a 2 or 3 day lag). I have had to down load the numbers to a spreadsheet each day to get some idea of a time-series of daily or weekly vaccinations.

The same HSE seems to be incapable of counting the numbers of over-70s. I know this directly as my GP has been undersupplied, most probably because the HSE did not have good data on the numbers in the older age-groups (for whom they presumably have issued medical cards).

The HSE would not have the employment records of healthcare workers employed in the private sector

Apogee · 25-03-2021 03:39PM

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1375094514315104263

KrustyUCC · 25-03-2021 03:40PM

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Is that not a notice?

Yes but the other poster said "well it takes a few days to send out notices"

It doesn't

josip · 25-03-2021 03:42PM

astrofool wrote: »

Arranging vaccines takes time per person, but seems to be about 1-2 days, most vaccinations are mid-week as this is the time by which deliveries into the country have occurred, so final numbers are in place, that amount going to each GP has been figured out, and then actually driven to that location to be administered, the GP then usually get through the doses over the few days.

What you've described above makes complete sense, but if we have an effective hiatus on vaccinating on Monday and Tuesday, that will be a big impediment to scaling up the vaccinations in May-June when supply has massively increased.

wadacrack · 25-03-2021 03:44PM

More evidence of the Vaccine preventing infection

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1375095487594950670

RavenBea17b · 25-03-2021 03:47PM

How many larger vaccine centres are the HSE vaccinating at?
Does anyone have a current record. Surely village sports halls, pitch up commercial type tents/temporary buildings to get as many people thru at supermarkets. Free up Dr surgeries for our elderly, and for other medical appointments too.
If the vaccines ramp up, get the numbers up.

astrofool · 25-03-2021 03:47PM

josip wrote: »

What you've described above makes complete sense, but if we have an effective hiatus on vaccinating on Monday and Tuesday, that will be a big impediment to scaling up the vaccinations in May-June when supply has massively increased.

The hiatus only occurs because vaccine supply has ran out, so it is in fact a really good thing right now.

When supply increases and there isn't a hiatus (due to ample supply) it will mean our time from delivery to arm is over 7 days, people will complain about that as well

ek motor · 25-03-2021 03:50PM

Apogee wrote: »

HSE Briefing:
-17,500 AZ administered since Sunday to Today
-Estimate of 200-230k in Cohort 4
-Will take until end April/early May to do Cohort 4

So about mid-may then to do cohort 4

Economics101 · 25-03-2021 03:50PM

A few quick phonecalls to private hospitals and organisations representing GPs, nursing homes etc would get an estimate that was a heck of a lot closer to the true number than the HSE seems to have got.

Also on the number of over 70s, I am sure that the CSO could provide quite good data within
a few hours: what are census data and mortality/life-expectancy tables for? And errors due to emigration or immigration would be low for the over 70s.

The more one looks into it the more of a total shambles is the HSE.

RavenBea17b · 25-03-2021 03:52PM

I notice that Norway health authority is saying blood clots 'unlikely' over two weeks after AZ. Will see if I can find the article again.

Apogee · 25-03-2021 03:56PM

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1375099009736577033

25-03-2021 03:58PM

https://twitter.com/med_indonews/status/1375094916741799939?s=19

Hopefully this is correct and it will be put in place asap. Gp to begin vaccinating those in Cohort 4 who are not linked to hospitals.

Red Silurian · 25-03-2021 04:05PM

ek motor wrote: »

Apogee wrote: »

HSE Briefing:
-17,500 AZ administered since Sunday to Today
-Estimate of 200-230k in Cohort 4
-Will take until end April/early May to do Cohort 4
So about mid-may then to do cohort 4

So about mid-may then to do cohort 4

230k with a million doses in April, May and June would suggest Cohor 4 will be given their first dose during the first week of April and the second dosage 4-12 weeks later depending on the vaccine

badger54 · 25-03-2021 04:07PM

Do we have up to date information on the status of one million per month deliveries expected for April, May and June?

Have any deliveries relating to April been confirmed to be lower? Or is it the case, that today, as things stand, we still expect to receive supply of one million doses this April?

Danzy · 25-03-2021 04:09PM

RavenBea17b wrote: »

How many larger vaccine centres are the HSE vaccinating at?
Does anyone have a current record. Surely village sports halls, pitch up commercial type tents/temporary buildings to get as many people thru at supermarkets. Free up Dr surgeries for our elderly, and for other medical appointments too.
If the vaccines ramp up, get the numbers up.

There will never be enough vaccines sent so quickly as to need that.

1.5mn flu vaccines in 6 weeks with no pressure.

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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