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    #3092
    daretodream
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭daretodream


    dragx wrote: »
    First was August 2020, second was January and third was today. Wait isn't as bad now with the essential test option. I was waiting over 9 months for my first test date and had two cancelled on me beforehand.

    It's just awful especially as you have to wait so long. Hopefully they'll invite you for another ASAP and you'll fly it. My brother failed 3 times and passed on 4th attempt. A horrible feeling but no stopping him now. You'll be the same. Onwards...


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    #3093
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Hold on the tester got out and told you to move on a public road?

    That's beyond bizarre and ridiculous at the same time....


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    #3094
    dragx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭dragx


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Hold on the tester got out and told you to move on a public road?

    That's beyond bizarre and ridiculous at the same time....

    Yep. So I was pulled in with my mam beside me, about to start the reverse when I saw a car coming up and park about 10 metres behind me. The corner is fairly popular for practicing the reverse and a lot of times people will pull up to it and then move on when they realise someone is there practicing or doing the test (myself included). But as I was already there, my mam said to continue and ignore them.

    I was about half way through when the beeping started. I'm not a confrontational person but equally as you said it's a public road and I thought they were just being a prick so I kept going. I was just finished it when the beeping got louder and then the driver (who was obviously told to) shot forward and pulled in to where I had begun the reverse.

    The tester then got out and stood staring at my car while I was straightening up and then started beckoning me to roll down my window. He said "I am a state official conducting a driving test and I need you to move on". Again, I was stunned and just muttered yeah no problem and went off. I've been told since he had no business asking me that and I should appeal it etc., but at the end of the day if I made a big stink of it the best I would have gotten was a free retest and it could have been his best mate in there doing it.

    I know it sounds like sour grapes but as I've said, I had no issues being failed on my second test, no problem acknowledging what I messed up today etc., but I do not believe I would have failed that test if it wasn't for that interaction the day before.


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    #3095
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    dragx wrote: »
    Yep. So I was pulled in with my mam beside me, about to start the reverse when I saw a car coming up and park about 10 metres behind me. The corner is fairly popular for practicing the reverse and a lot of times people will pull up to it and then move on when they realise someone is there practicing or doing the test (myself included). But as I was already there, my mam said to continue and ignore them.

    I was about half way through when the beeping started. I'm not a confrontational person but equally as you said it's a public road and I thought they were just being a prick so I kept going. I was just finished it when the beeping got louder and then the driver (who was obviously told to) shot forward and pulled in to where I had begun the reverse.

    The tester then got out and stood staring at my car while I was straightening up and then started beckoning me to roll down my window. He said "I am a state official conducting a driving test and I need you to move on". Again, I was stunned and just muttered yeah no problem and went off. I've been told since he had no business asking me that and I should appeal it etc., but at the end of the day if I made a big stink of it the best I would have gotten was a free retest and it could have been his best mate in there doing it.

    I know it sounds like sour grapes but as I've said, I had no issues being failed on my second test, no problem acknowledging what I messed up today etc., but I do not believe I would have failed that test if it wasn't for that interaction the day before.

    All Ill say is wow and how you didn't report that is beyond me, it's totally wrong to beep at a learner and a tester doing this.... Wow.

    That's terrible carry on, you could have asked for the test to be reviewed, I would have.

    Would you consider changing centre, get as much practice, do pre test see how get on...


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    #3096
    dragx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭dragx


    Yep I do regret not doing more about it it but honestly I was so prepared for the test and just stunned and annoyed after it. A few days later I copped that the form I was sent was completely blank (compared to the one I posted earlier). I also didn't get the paper form that I got today and back in January.

    I have considered changing centre but really I know Tallaght best and that has to count for something. I've got a pretest booked for Monday and will do plenty of driving over the weekend so fingers crossed... :)


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    #3097
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,164 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    dragx wrote: »
    Yep. So I was pulled in with my mam beside me, about to start the reverse when I saw a car coming up and park about 10 metres behind me. The corner is fairly popular for practicing the reverse and a lot of times people will pull up to it and then move on when they realise someone is there practicing or doing the test (myself included). But as I was already there, my mam said to continue and ignore them.

    I was about half way through when the beeping started. I'm not a confrontational person but equally as you said it's a public road and I thought they were just being a prick so I kept going. I was just finished it when the beeping got louder and then the driver (who was obviously told to) shot forward and pulled in to where I had begun the reverse.

    Just to clarify. You were ready to start your reversing manoeuvre. Somebody pulled in behind you. You seen this car but started reversing anyway. you only stopped because they beeped at you. do I have that right?


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    #3098
    dragx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭dragx


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Somebody pulled in behind you. You seen this car but started reversing anyway. you only stopped because they beeped at you. do I have that right?

    Not quite, that makes it sound like they were directly behind me and I was going to hit them. They didn't begin beeping until I was already reversing.

    I may have described the positioning badly so I've grabbed an image off Google maps to indicate the placement as best as I can remember. (Not the same corner but similar)
    https://i.imgur.com/BLRX4AE.png


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    #3099
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,164 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    dragx wrote: »
    Not quite, that makes it sound like they were directly behind me and I was going to hit them. They didn't begin beeping until I was already reversing.

    I may have described the positioning badly so I've grabbed an image off Google maps to indicate the placement as best as I can remember. (Not the same corner but similar)
    https://i.imgur.com/BLRX4AE.png

    I see what you mean now. they were on the far side of the junction.


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    #3100
    pm1977x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭pm1977x


    dragx wrote: »
    Yep I do regret not doing more about it it but honestly I was so prepared for the test and just stunned and annoyed after it. A few days later I copped that the form I was sent was completely blank (compared to the one I posted earlier). I also didn't get the paper form that I got today and back in January.

    I have considered changing centre but really I know Tallaght best and that has to count for something. I've got a pretest booked for Monday and will do plenty of driving over the weekend so fingers crossed... :)


    I'd hazard a guess you met 'that guy' from Tallaght - I had him for my first 2 failed tests. 1st one he put me off by flopping about like a salmon whenever I even gently touched the brakes, I thought he was having a fit until I realised he just wasn't the full shilling. I failed on a roundabout error which was fully my fault but his behaviour and demeanor really put me off. 2nd time I had the misfortune to get him again and felt I drove really well, he failed me saying I was dangerous and shouldn't be on the road because I was too cautious hanging back behind a cyclist who was coming to a parked bus, 3rd time I got a lovely sound tester who passed me with flying colours.


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    #3101
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    dragx wrote: »
    Yep. So I was pulled in with my mam beside me, about to start the reverse when I saw a car coming up and park about 10 metres behind me. The corner is fairly popular for practicing the reverse and a lot of times people will pull up to it and then move on when they realise someone is there practicing or doing the test (myself included). But as I was already there, my mam said to continue and ignore them.

    I was about half way through when the beeping started. I'm not a confrontational person but equally as you said it's a public road and I thought they were just being a prick so I kept going. I was just finished it when the beeping got louder and then the driver (who was obviously told to) shot forward and pulled in to where I had begun the reverse.

    The tester then got out and stood staring at my car while I was straightening up and then started beckoning me to roll down my window. He said "I am a state official conducting a driving test and I need you to move on". Again, I was stunned and just muttered yeah no problem and went off. I've been told since he had no business asking me that and I should appeal it etc., but at the end of the day if I made a big stink of it the best I would have gotten was a free retest and it could have been his best mate in there doing it.

    I know it sounds like sour grapes but as I've said, I had no issues being failed on my second test, no problem acknowledging what I messed up today etc., but I do not believe I would have failed that test if it wasn't for that interaction the day before.

    Hi,
    Don’t:

    Unnecessarily obstruct traffic or annoy other road users
    Practise on driving test routes for the most part; congestion on these routes causes inconvenience to residents and test applicants alike
    Above from

    RSA Pass the test

    Your driving instructor should have warned you that you must be extremely careful that you do not interfere with an examiner conducting a test.

    Several reasons. Main one, the examiner is greatly constrained by time And suppose the situation was reversed, you doing the test and you are being held up by some inconsiderate twit and you can see your examiner getting more and more irritated by the second.


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    #3102
    dragx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭dragx


    J_R wrote: »
    Your driving instructor should have warned you that you must be extremely careful that you do not interfere with an examiner conducting a test.

    I was not interfering with anyone, I was there first and he took it upon himself to interject. If I lived in the house opposite and was just parking up would the instructor be able to tell me to move?
    J_R wrote: »
    Several reasons. Main one, the examiner is greatly constrained by time

    An examiner should know more than one corner in one of the largest estates in Tallaght. Asking the person taking the test to move on and take another route would add maybe 5 minutes on, if that. In fact, it would have taken less time to do that than to make the production he did.
    J_R wrote: »
    And suppose the situation was reversed, you doing the test and you are being held up by some inconsiderate twit and you can see your examiner getting more and more irritated by the second.

    I'd be inconvenienced, but it's a public road and that comes with the territory. Several times during my EDT I had to find different corners and hill starts because the ones I was taken to were busy.

    The examiner should present as a professional and not show that sort of agitation to the person taking the test, in my opinion. And they certainly shouldn't be beeping at a car with L plates. But yeah, I'm an "inconsiderate twit" for practicing for my driving test.


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    #3103
    newmember2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭newmember2


    dragx wrote: »
    Yep I do regret not doing more about it it but honestly I was so prepared for the test and just stunned and annoyed after it. A few days later I copped that the form I was sent was completely blank (compared to the one I posted earlier). I also didn't get the paper form that I got today and back in January.

    I have considered changing centre but really I know Tallaght best and that has to count for something. I've got a pretest booked for Monday and will do plenty of driving over the weekend so fingers crossed... :)

    Are you saying here that you did a driving test and didn't get a points sheet at the end of the test??


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    #3104
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    dragx wrote: »
    I was not interfering with anyone, I was there first and he took it upon himself to interject. If I lived in the house opposite and was just parking up would the instructor be able to tell me to move?



    An examiner should know more than one corner in one of the largest estates in Tallaght. Asking the person taking the test to move on and take another route would add maybe 5 minutes on, if that. In fact, it would have taken less time to do that than to make the production he did.



    I'd be inconvenienced, but it's a public road and that comes with the territory. Several times during my EDT I had to find different corners and hill starts because the ones I was taken to were busy.

    The examiner should present as a professional and not show that sort of agitation to the person taking the test, in my opinion. And they certainly shouldn't be beeping at a car with L plates. But yeah, I'm an "inconsiderate twit" for practicing for my driving test.




    Hi,


    I am sure he gave you time to move off and leave the corner before he beeped at you. (Testers are easily spotted they wear those bright yellow Hi Vis jacket). When you did not take the hint he was forced to approach you in person.

    What makes you believe you can interfere with a Government official conducting an official driving test. ?? What if everyone had your attitude ?

    You believe an examiner unprofessionally failed you because you inconvenienced him the day before, yet an examiner will behalf professionally and not show irritation when greatly inconvenienced by someone refusing to leave the corner that he had selected on his test route. ??


  • Options
    #3105
    dragx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭dragx


    newmember? wrote: »
    Are you saying here that you did a driving test and didn't get a points sheet at the end of the test??

    I got e-mailed a completely blank sheet. Same as the sheet I posted a few pages back, but each grade box is empty.
    J_R wrote: »
    Hi,


    I am sure he gave you time to move off and leave the corner before he beeped at you. (Testers are easily spotted they wear those bright yellow Hi Vis jacket). When you did not take the hint he was forced to approach you in person.

    Plenty of people pull up at that corner. Like I said, it's very popular for practice. Should someone move on every time someone else wants to practice? If I arrive to the corner to practice and someone is there, I move on. I certainly do not wait behind them and stand on my horn. As I said, plenty of corners in Tallaght.

    I did not make out the hi-vis, neither did my accompanying driver. He did not give me plenty of time, if he had I would have completed the reverse and left.
    J_R wrote: »
    What makes you believe you can interfere with a Government official conducting an official driving test. ?? What if everyone had your attitude ?

    Again, I did not interfere. I was doing my own thing when he took it upon himself to involve me. In order for me to interfere I would have to have known a test was ongoing and go out of my way to impede it's progress.
    J_R wrote: »
    You believe an examiner unprofessionally failed you because you inconvenienced him the day before, yet an examiner will behalf professionally and not show irritation when greatly inconvenienced by someone refusing to leave the corner that he had selected on his test route. ??

    Yes, I believe examiners should behave professionally while at work. Regardless of the outcome of my test, repeatedly beeping at a learner because of a mild inconvenience is not professional behaviour. Not sure what you're confused about there.


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    #3106
    Posy
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 27,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭Posy


    Surely if a tester gets to a corner they plan to use for a test, and somebody is already on that corner doing a lesson/pre-test/practice, they should use another spot, rather than park behind the person and blow the horn at them until they move?

    That can't be professional protocol!


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    #3107
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    Posy wrote: »
    Surely if a tester gets to a corner they plan to use for a test, and somebody is already on that corner doing a lesson/pre-test/practice, they should use another spot, rather than park behind the person and blow the horn at them until they move?

    That can't be professional protocol!
    Hi,

    I believe this post and the ones by Dragx re. interfering with someone doing the driving test should be addressed by a Boards.ie moderator.


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    #3108
    dragx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭dragx


    J_R wrote: »
    I believe this post and the ones by Dragx re. interfering with someone doing the driving test should be addressed by a Boards.ie moderator.

    I have been perfectly civil to you, and Posy simply expressed their opinion. Hardly grounds for a moderator to review the posts.

    Perhaps you should just accept that you're wrong.


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    #3109
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭J_R


    dragx wrote: »
    I have been perfectly civil to you, and Posy simply expressed their opinion. Hardly grounds for a moderator to review the posts.

    Perhaps you should just accept that you're wrong.


    Hi,

    The reason I asked Boards to post a definitive reply from the RSA was to immediately squash your belief that learner drivers could with impunity interfere with examiners conducting a driving test, even to the point of accusing them of being unprofessional if they objected .

    If other learner drivers also started to believe that it was OK to interfere it would lead to utter mayhem.

    To me it is almost unbelievable that a learner driver would be willing to subject a fellow learner doing the test to extra stress, never mind interfering with an examiner doing their job.


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    #3110
    LorelaiG
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭LorelaiG


    I know when I was doing my pre tests and lessons that if we were practicing a reverse around a corner and an examiner arrived conducting a test we moved off immediately and found another corner to practice on. My instructor always told me that if I was out practicing with a sponsor that I should do this.

    It's because they are under time constraints to get the test done to get to the next test and may not have time to drive and find another suitable corner to do it.


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    #3111
    terminator74
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭terminator74


    LorelaiG wrote: »
    I know when I was doing my pre tests and lessons that if we were practicing a reverse around a corner and an examiner arrived conducting a test we moved off immediately and found another corner to practice on. My instructor always told me that if I was out practicing with a sponsor that I should do this.

    It's because they are under time constraints to get the test done to get to the next test and may not have time to drive and find another suitable corner to do it.

    I would have had a similar experience with my instructor where we often left the area if an instructor was about (also around Tallaght). Similarly she advised me to look elsewhere if there was a test in place. IMO, while the instructor may have displayed poor manners in the way he talked to you, it was fair enough for them to request you to move on.
    As you know driving tests are difficult enough and I'm sure most instructors want to give people a fair chance. Having to unnecessarily wait while someone practices a reverse around the corner is not ideal for the person sitting the test. Neither is it ideal for the tester who has time constraints. The option to look for another corner to reverse may not have been easy to do. (The test routes and parts of the test need to take place in specific testing environments i.e. estates, busy junctions etc). Not every corner in an estate is suitable to properly test someone.
    In any case, I would side with the view that's its better to let the tester and applicant do their thing and move on.


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    #3112
    dragx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭dragx


    J_R wrote: »
    your belief that learner drivers could with impunity interfere with examiners conducting a driving test, even to the point of accusing them of being unprofessional if they objected .

    If other learner drivers also started to believe that it was OK to interfere it would lead to utter mayhem.

    To me it is almost unbelievable that a learner driver would be willing to subject a fellow learner doing the test to extra stress, never mind interfering with an examiner doing their job.

    You keep using the word interfere. It's incredibly frustrating because I don't know how I can make it any clearer to you that I did not know the person was conducting a test.

    I would never want to put anyone completing the test under any undue stress, which is why I moved on immediately after the tester identified themselves. Whether they had the right to or not, I didn't argue their point and moved on.

    I never came into this thread to discuss my first test specifically, I mentioned it in passing as I maintain it was an unfair fail and elaborated when asked. You are going around in circles now and repeating yourself so I think we'll call it a day.

    LorelaiG wrote: »
    I know when I was doing my pre tests and lessons that if we were practicing a reverse around a corner and an examiner arrived conducting a test we moved off immediately and found another corner to practice on. My instructor always told me that if I was out practicing with a sponsor that I should do this.
    it.
    terminator74 wrote: »
    IMO, while the instructor may have displayed poor manners in the way he talked to you, it was fair enough for them to request you to move on.

    Absolutely no issue with being asked to move on and would have moved on if I had known it was an examiner, but as I said when I first brought this up, for all I knew it was just another learner wanting to practice. Other people in this thread and who I have spoken to about the issue believe he had no right to ask me to move on a public road, but again I did not protest once I realised what was going on. My issue was 100% to do with his attitude that day and my resulting test the following morning.


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    #3113
    codriscoll1
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭codriscoll1


    J_R wrote: »
    Hi,

    The reason I asked Boards to post a definitive reply from the RSA was to immediately squash your belief that learner drivers could with impunity interfere with examiners conducting a driving test, even to the point of accusing them of being unprofessional if they objected .

    If other learner drivers also started to believe that it was OK to interfere it would lead to utter mayhem.

    To me it is almost unbelievable that a learner driver would be willing to subject a fellow learner doing the test to extra stress, never mind interfering with an examiner doing their job.

    I have no information on the specific case mentioned in previous posts - but I will say that as an ADI, we (or examiners) have no right to tell someone to leave a specific spot/corner on a public road. Or to use the horn to express anger/frustration at another road user - which I would agree is unprofessional for an ADI or examiner.

    Any driver absolutely can "with impunity" reverse around a corner on a public road - and has no obligation to leave if they see an examiner approaching the same corner. It might be inconvenient for the examiner/candidate, and I think most people would try to avoid inconveniencing them if they noticed that it was someone taking a test, but the RSA do not own the corners/estates used in tests.


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    #3114
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,164 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    codriscoll1 wrote: »
    I have no information on the specific case mentioned in previous posts - but I will say that as an ADI, we (or examiners) have no right to tell someone to leave a specific spot/corner on a public road. Or to use the horn to express anger/frustration at another road user.

    Any driver absolutely can "with impunity" reverse around a corner on a public road - and has no obligation to leave if they see an examiner approaching the same corner. It might be inconvenient for the examiner/candidate, and I think most people would try to avoid inconveniencing them if they noticed that it was someone taking a test, but the RSA do not own the corners/estates used in tests.

    It falls under the "don't be a dick" rule.


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    #3115
    codriscoll1
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭codriscoll1


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It falls under the "don't be a dick" rule.

    I agree and I think most people would try to avoid it - though again this is a courtesy and not a legal obligation. But by the sounds of it dragx simply didn't notice it was someone taking their test (and has no obligation to check this).


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    #3116
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    I remember the RSA not to long ago had a memo up for driving instructors in Finglas not to use a certain estate for the purpose of lessons. They explained it was due to residents complaining. But it happened to be where they did reversing around a corner etc.

    On top of that I got the memo directly from my boss because they had sent it around to the driving schools also.

    Personally I've no problem with keeping a corner free if a student under test comes up, for me it's more about respect for the testers and as another said about , not being a dick about it.


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    #3117
    Johner
    Registered Users Posts: 21,625 ✭✭✭✭Johner


    They have a sign up in the Naas test centre to stop using an estate for the reverse around the corner as well.


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    #3118
    LorelaiG
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭LorelaiG


    dragx wrote: »
    You keep using the word interfere. It's incredibly frustrating because I don't know how I can make it any clearer to you that I did not know the person was conducting a test.

    I would never want to put anyone completing the test under any undue stress, which is why I moved on immediately after the tester identified themselves. Whether they had the right to or not, I didn't argue their point and moved on.

    I never came into this thread to discuss my first test specifically, I mentioned it in passing as I maintain it was an unfair fail and elaborated when asked. You are going around in circles now and repeating yourself so I think we'll call it a day.






    Absolutely no issue with being asked to move on and would have moved on if I had known it was an examiner, but as I said when I first brought this up, for all I knew it was just another learner wanting to practice. Other people in this thread and who I have spoken to about the issue believe he had no right to ask me to move on a public road, but again I did not protest once I realised what was going on. My issue was 100% to do with his attitude that day and my resulting test the following morning.

    I find it weird that you didn't know it was a tester because they're required to wear their high vis with the RSA logo on it. No driving instructor is allowed to do that.


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    #3119
    MascotDec85
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    I remember the RSA not to long ago had a memo up for driving instructors in Finglas not to use a certain estate for the purpose of lessons. They explained it was due to residents complaining. But it happened to be where they did reversing around a corner etc.

    On top of that I got the memo directly from my boss because they had sent it around to the driving schools also.

    Personally I've no problem with keeping a corner free if a student under test comes up, for me it's more about respect for the testers and as another said about , not being a dick about it.

    I didn’t realise you were an ADI


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    #3120
    daretodream
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭daretodream


    On a completely different note...

    Do testers have access to previous test report for subsequent retest? Be interested to know if they check and compare performance on the same fault areas or use as a tool to gauge driving ability overall. Or do they go in blind with a fresh, clean slate?


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    #3121
    lawless11
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭lawless11


    daretodream wrote: »
    On a completely different note...

    Do testers have access to previous test report for subsequent retest? Be interested to know if they check and compare performance on the same fault areas or use as a tool to gauge driving ability overall. Or do they go in blind with a fresh, clean slate?

    I believe they go "blind". Anyway that's how it was for my few attempts.


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