Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

walus · 14-03-2021 06:51PM

Russman wrote: »

Agree. I’ve no knowledge at all of any of these plans, at a complete guess I’d say they were probably aimed at something way more serious, Ebola or something akin to bio warfare maybe. For whatever reason covid is mild enough that most will be fine, but serious enough that systems will be overloaded if let rip. It’s weird as fcuk, even when people in the same house sometime don’t even get it when another member does. My friend has 3 teenagers, one of them got it, rest of the family all tested negative twice. Another family I know, the mother in her 60s got it and was fine, the healthy daughter in her 20s spent a week in hospital with it at the same time.

As far as I know UK had a strategy that was taking into account up to 750k deaths, so rather serious number. Lockdown was not a part of it. Life was to continue largely unchanged as the economic impact was to be avoided. They were willing to “sacrifice” 750k people for the good of the collective. It was deemed a reasonable price to pay. Wtf happened between then (2011) and now one should ask?

Russman · 14-03-2021 06:56PM

walus wrote: »

As far as I know UK had a strategy that was taking into account up to 750k deaths, so rather serious number. Lockdown was not a part of it. Life was to continue largely unchanged as the economic impact was to be avoided. They were willing to “sacrifice” 750k people for the good of the collective. It was deemed a reasonable price to pay. Wtf happened between then (2011) and now one should ask?

No idea. I’m not being flippant, but maybe that was fine to put in a notional plan, but a bit harder to stomach when it became a live decision that someone actually had to or might have to take ? Maybe Boris’ stint in ICU changed his mind. I mean, jaysus, three quarters of a million is a lot of bodies to write off.

themacattack. · 14-03-2021 07:11PM

Enter name here wrote: »

Totally agree, yes the borders should have been shut down. But we have been far too lenient on those who choose to ignore the restrictions in place. A heavy fine/imprisonment should have been implemented also. The Gardi should have been given far greater powers to detain and arrest rule breakers. Protests should have been closed down immediately, college kids ignoring rules should have been expelled and thrown out on their arses. But no we continue to allow certain sections of the community to do as they please and as long as that continues we are going to be in an endless cycle of lockdowns. The time to get tough has already passed but it doesn't mean we cant at least try to regain some control.

the only thing i agree with you is that australia controlled the virus by its strict border control...we could have done that with an agreement up north or the uk at the beginning but as everyone knows that would never in a million years happen ....the lockdown you want is in china where the government control the people and nobody even knows if their strict measures have worked as most likely their numbers are complete fabrication nevermind where the virus originated....once the virus was circulating in the community lockdown as a measure to control it should have been abandoned...you cant expect people to stay locked up in a free democracy as a means to control a relativley mild viris for most of the population for anymore than 12 months....

johndanielmoore · 14-03-2021 07:17PM

walus wrote: »

As far as I know UK had a strategy that was taking into account up to 750k deaths, so rather serious number. Lockdown was not a part of it. Life was to continue largely unchanged as the economic impact was to be avoided. They were willing to “sacrifice” 750k people for the good of the collective. It was deemed a reasonable price to pay. Wtf happened between then (2011) and now one should ask?

Social media. The plans also probably didn't take into account that politicians are spineless and can't make a tough decision when it's needed.

RGS · 14-03-2021 07:28PM

It's amazing some posters still trying to equate Ireland with Australia and New Zealand.

There are no similarities only differences.

Ireland a 2 state jurisdiction which needs to ro freight to survive and dependent on access to our European neighbours.
The others 2 independent landmasses where ro ro freight does not apply.

Melbourne to Christchurch is 1500 miles with only the ocean in between. We are only 75 miles from holyhead in Wales.

Necro · 14-03-2021 07:44PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Hold on while I reach for the world's smallest violin...

Threadbanned

acequion · 14-03-2021 07:44PM

RobitTV wrote: »

Shocking level snobbery on here today. This has got to be a new record.

Awful.

If only it were mere snobbery RobitTV. It's actually despotism by some. Notice the glee and enthusiasm as some post what they'd do to those breaking restrictions!

It's actually creepy that there are so many minded people in our midst, let's hope they never occupy a position of power!

themacattack. · 14-03-2021 07:51PM

Enter name here wrote: »

It tells me that we and others have been far too lenient and trusting of their populations. Also China would make a 3rd country and a few more to your list. They did it by controlling their populations. They didn't pander to the left. They created rules and protocols and enforced them whole heartedly unlike us and others who created protocols as a guide yet failed to enforce them.

We could start by having a 1000 euro fine for rule breakers and increasing the fines if they reoffend. Also enforcing the fine if they don't pay up then they are thrown in prison until such time as the debt is worked off.

comrade xi jinping is that you?

CalamariFritti · 14-03-2021 07:56PM

i'd just ignore that chap altogether. There are all sorts of 'hard men' appearing on these threads. Not worth it.

Naked Lepper · 14-03-2021 07:59PM

RGS wrote: »

It's amazing some posters still trying to equate
Melbourne to Christchurch is 1500 miles with only the ocean in between. We are only 75 miles from holyhead in Wales.

67 miles

14-03-2021 08:00PM

acequion wrote: »

If only it were mere snobbery RobitTV. It's actually despotism by some. Notice the glee and enthusiasm as some post what they'd do to those breaking restrictions!

It's actually creepy that there are so many minded people in our midst, let's hope they never occupy a position of power!

T’would make anyone glad we’re part of EU and more outward looking people because otherwise we’d be going back to dark times I’d say.

Necro · 14-03-2021 08:00PM

Mod: Can we get back on topic now please folks, the level of bitching and sniping over the last few pages is ridiculous, if I wanted to I could hand out multiple cards and possibly bans. Discuss the topic, not other users. Draw a line in the sand now and can we try and engage with some level of civility. Thanks

Aph2016 · 14-03-2021 08:04PM

The astounding thing about the lockdowns is, the approach hasn't changed even though we know who the vulnerable people are, and we know how to treat it better. Why are we still doing the same things when we have so much information about this virus. We know it's not a big risk to more than 99% of the population, why hasn't the approach changed!

walus · 14-03-2021 08:13PM

Aph2016 wrote: »

The astounding thing about the lockdowns is, the approach hasn't changed even though we know who the vulnerable people are, and we know how to treat it better. Why are we still doing the same things when we have so much information about this virus. We know it's not a big risk to more than 99% of the population, why hasn't the approach changed!

Agreed. Also we all know they are less and less effective, and need to be applied for longer, therefore bigger damage to the economy. Blaming people for this is just not acceptable.

suicide_circus · 14-03-2021 08:29PM

Aph2016 wrote: »

The astounding thing about the lockdowns is, the approach hasn't changed even though we know who the vulnerable people are, and we know how to treat it better. Why are we still doing the same things when we have so much information about this virus. We know it's not a big risk to more than 99% of the population, why hasn't the approach changed!

I think theyre afraid that any deviation from level 5 will lead to a snowball effect of people disregarding restrictions.

lee_baby_simms · 14-03-2021 08:32PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think theyre afraid that any deviation from level 5 will lead to a snowball effect of people disregarding restrictions.

It’s the fact that NPHET seem to be oblivious to the inherent diminishing returns that lockdowns produce over an extended period of time. Whipping a dead horse at this stage.

bb1234567 · 14-03-2021 08:33PM

Aph2016 wrote: »

The astounding thing about the lockdowns is, the approach hasn't changed even though we know who the vulnerable people are, and we know how to treat it better. Why are we still doing the same things when we have so much information about this virus. We know it's not a big risk to more than 99% of the population, why hasn't the approach changed!

But even stranger is the fact as more and more people of that small group who are at risk from death are vaccinated , the lockdowns only seem to be getting longer and more strict. Nursing home residents make up 50% of our deaths and are all safe bc of vaccine now and yet lockdown has not changed even slightly to reflect deaths have at least been slashed in half already. 'Ring of steel' with probably one of the largest gardai force deployments in state history descending on the city this week to stamp out any kind of possibility for the public to voice their concerns and woes in solidarity. I don't buy into any conspiracy theories but at this stage I'm nearly a bit more sympathetic to those who have resorted to them to make some kind of sense of this madness.

Coillte_Bhoy · 14-03-2021 08:34PM

Neagra wrote: »

well this does not help

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/30000-vaccination-appointments-for-high-risk-groups-cancelled-due-to-suspension-of-astrazeneca-jab-40195227.html

i want you and graham and a few other posters here who refuse to open their eyes, to justify the stopping of astraZeneca vaccines without sounding like an idiot.
the average person in this country dont give a **** anymore.
the jig is up.

Less of the personal stuff, dont dare call me an idiot, i havent said a word about AZ or stopping them

FintanMcluskey · 14-03-2021 08:45PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

But even stranger is the fact as more and more people of that small group who are at risk from death are vaccinated , the lockdowns only seem to be getting longer and more strict

It’s such a mindboggling paradox.

I can’t understand the logic of what’s happening

I remember Ryan Tubridy on the LLS pleading with viewers last September for one last push, the vaccine is coming.

The vaccine is here now, the first jab went in almost 3 months ago, and we are, 6 months on from Tubridy’s plea, now under stricter mitigation and plan to remain so for months.

I honestly believe it’s now a sunk cost fallacy. We are now the 3rd most indebted nation in the world, and of course will add greatly to that for the coming months with construction closed and many non essential businesses that remained opened across the EU.

PapaBill · 14-03-2021 08:50PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

But even stranger is the fact as more and more people of that small group who are at risk from death are vaccinated , the lockdowns only seem to be getting longer and more strict. Nursing home residents make up 50% of our deaths and are all safe bc of vaccine now and yet lockdown has not changed even slightly to reflect deaths have at least been slashed in half already. 'Ring of steel' with probably one of the largest gardai force deployments in state history descending on the city this week to stamp out any kind of possibility for the public to voice their concerns and woes in solidarity. I don't buy into any conspiracy theories but at this stage I'm nearly a bit more sympathetic to those who have resorted to them to make some kind of sense of this madness.

The WHO recommendation is for communities to show a positivity rate of 5% or below for 14 straight days prior to reopening.
Ireland today: 3.7% (7 day avg)

suicide_circus · 14-03-2021 08:53PM

The social contract was this;

We'll stay in our homes until vulnerable people start being vaccinated and at that stage the restrictions need to start to evaporate.

This has not happened, in fact all the recent messaging has been quite the opposite.

It's piss poor people management.

14-03-2021 08:54PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I honestly believe it’s now a sunk cost fallacy.

That is exactly what it is.

walus · 14-03-2021 08:58PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s such a mindboggling paradox.

I can’t understand the logic of what’s happening

I remember Ryan Tubridy on the LLS pleading with viewers last September for one last push, the vaccine is coming.

The vaccine is here now, the first jab went in almost 3 months ago, and we are, 6 months on from Tubridy’s plea, now under stricter mitigation and plan to remain so for months.

I honestly believe it’s now a sunk cost fallacy. We are now the 3rd most indebted nation in the world, and of course will add greatly to that for the coming months with construction closed and many non essential businesses that remained opened across the EU.

It has to be some sort of bias resulting from an ongoing commitment to this strategy of lockdowns. They are trying harder and harder for this to work with the opposite effect. At this stage it would take a change in the personnel at nphet and government to change the direction.

JRant · 14-03-2021 09:02PM

Aph2016 wrote: »

The astounding thing about the lockdowns is, the approach hasn't changed even though we know who the vulnerable people are, and we know how to treat it better. Why are we still doing the same things when we have so much information about this virus. We know it's not a big risk to more than 99% of the population, why hasn't the approach changed!

We also know hospital acquired infection was a huge problem over the winter. With HCWs vaccinated that takes a huge chunk off the hospital numbers. Add in nursing homes all have a vaccine in them and we are in really good shape. Yet the NPHET have decide 'thou shalt not pass" and it's a never ending lockdown until they say so.

niallo27 · 14-03-2021 09:06PM

This thread is way better in fairness than the main one, at least a bit of balance on here. Everyone is banned from main one.

JRant · 14-03-2021 09:06PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

It’s the fact that NPHET seem to be oblivious to the inherent diminishing returns that lockdowns produce over an extended period of time. Whipping a dead horse at this stage.

It's a couple of things really. First, they think everyone will just behave like their models do (models that are consistently wrong by the way). Second, like many academics they believe perfection is the only solution when in fact we just need a workable solution.

Both of these things seem to be completely lost on the wet slipper we have as a leader at the moment.

Neagra · 14-03-2021 09:08PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Less of the personal stuff, dont dare call me an idiot, i havent said a word about AZ or stopping them

you asked where we would get the vaccines from
i replied maybe banning what we have does not help and anyone who justifies the lockdown because we dont have vaccines has been neutered by todays decision.
the lockdown is now unjustifiable and only an idiot would do so.
i also said the jig is up and it is.

bb1234567 · 14-03-2021 09:14PM

niallo27 wrote: »

This thread is way better in fairness than the main one, at least a bit of balance on here. Everyone is banned from main one.

Ah, there's only so much that can be said about the virus itself. Think everyones bored of it nearly at this stage. Anyway it hardly even feels like it's just about the virus anymore, today when I was walking to the shop feeling agry about the current near endless feeling of limits on my life I actually forgot momentarily about the virus itself and it just felt like it was strife against these restrictions that exist for no reason to no real benefit. At this stage I'd say majority of people are more concerned about damage caused by ongoing lockdowns itself thn the health risk or risk to healthcare system from the virus.

JRant · 14-03-2021 09:14PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s such a mindboggling paradox.

I can’t understand the logic of what’s happening

I remember Ryan Tubridy on the LLS pleading with viewers last September for one last push, the vaccine is coming.

The vaccine is here now, the first jab went in almost 3 months ago, and we are, 6 months on from Tubridy’s plea, now under stricter mitigation and plan to remain so for months.

I honestly believe it’s now a sunk cost fallacy. We are now the 3rd most indebted nation in the world, and of course will add greatly to that for the coming months with construction closed and many non essential businesses that remained opened across the EU.

Speaking of more debt Fintan, Nolan was on the radio Friday morning throwing out 10 week add-ons like they were confetti. At the current rates a further 10 weeks is 1.5 billion extra in PUP payments alone. Add in the additional 10 weeks he casually threw in and that's 3 billion that needs to be magiced up. All said without a care in the world I may add, like he was talking about going to the shops for a box of teebags.

JRant · 14-03-2021 09:17PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The social contract was this;

We'll stay in our homes until vulnerable people start being vaccinated and at that stage the restrictions need to start to evaporate.

This has not happened, in fact all the recent messaging has been quite the opposite.

It's piss poor people management.

They know it as well. That's why they've organised a huge police presence to stop people exercising their constitutional right to free assembly on Paddy's day.

That social contract is well and truly in the bin, particularly when you hear talk of vaccine bonuses for those already given the jab.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings