Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

growleaves

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Never been accused of being left wing on boards before! Slightly left of center once now that I think of it.

I prefer to be on the right or wrong scale rather than the left or right scale myself.

Politics is nothing to do with it.

The restrictions enjoy widespread political support. It's not left or right.

I agree its not primarily left or right.

But a poster who is enraged by wokeness can surely see that all the left-authoritarian people in society will be hoping to use the precedents set by restrictions later on.

These people are all about exercising control over people.

themacattack.

Enter name here wrote: »

Agreed they are not working as I have said many times before, because the Irish as far to intelligent and know much more than anyone else on how to control it. How do you think countries like Australia and New Zealand controlled it so easily compared to us?

have you been to australia? anyone thats been would understand why they have it controlled better than ireland

Enter name here

themacattack. wrote: »

have you been to australia? anyone thats been would understand why they have it controlled better than ireland

You could say that. I can assure you I have a far more knowledge on how Australia controlled it. But please go ahead and enlighten me.

themacattack.

Enter name here wrote: »

You could say that. I can assure you I have a far more knowledge on how Australia controlled it. But please go ahead and enlighten me.

you didnt answer....have you been to australia? after you answer please enlighten me how they controlled it better

ypres5

Enter name here wrote: »

You could say that. I can assure you I have a far more knowledge on how Australia controlled it. But please go ahead and enlighten me.

I would imagine it's due to australia and new zealand being much more self sufficient and remote than ireland but then you wouldn't be able to rant about wokeness or whatever

mightyreds

ypres5 wrote: »

I would imagine it's due to australia and new zealand being much more self sufficient and remote than ireland but then you wouldn't be able to rant about wokeness or whatever

Heard australia don't have any woke people too far to travel.

ceadaoin.

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I think so, yeah.

There are shared negatives either way. Opening up would obviously improve the prospects of many businesses, but it wouldn't be a return to 2019.
There are a lot of people, like me, who would not partake in any of it until it's safe to do so. Whether that's because they're vulnerable, or they want to protect the vulnerable.

Many businesses would likely find that even though they can now operate again, they no longer have a viable business because they don't have enough customers.

So those places absolutely need to be shut down to stop people going there and possibly spreading the virus, but at the same time, if they were open no one would go there and they would be in trouble anyway? OK, makes perfect sense lol.

Enter name here

themacattack. wrote: »

you didnt answer....have you been to australia? after you answer please enlighten me how they controlled it better

I hold dual citizenship to Australia and Ireland, I have lived in both countries extensively. For one Australia has a police force that carry weapons and enforce the law, they don't have a force to simply act as a community guardian and help little old ladies across the road or pull cats of out trees. They also implemented a heavy fine system if you were caught breaking covid protocols, they closed the borders down, if people considered them self above the law like some did they were physically dragged from their houses or vehicles and arrested. And yes through my employment I am in contact with Australia on an almost daily zoom calls, so yes I have a full understanding of whats going on back there. Need anything else while I'm here?

walus

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So those places absolutely need to be shut down to stop people going there and possibly spreading the virus, but at the same time, if they were open no one would go there and they would be in trouble anyway? OK, makes perfect sense lol.

Exactly. We were fcuked anyway the moment that virus left the Petri dish or jumped the species. Lol.

RobitTV

52 deaths today in the UK which is down significantly on a typical Sunday. The impressive vaccine rollout is having a real impact.

4,618 cases. Which is the lowest in a long time.

themacattack.

Enter name here wrote: »

I hold dual citizenship to Australia and Ireland, I have lived in both countries extensively. For one Australia has a police force that carry weapons and enforce the law, they don't have a force to simply act as a community guardian and help little old ladies across the road or pull cats of out trees. They also implemented a heavy fine system if you were caught breaking covid protocols, they closed the borders down, if people considered them self above the law like some did they were physically dragged from their houses or vehicles and arrested. And yes through my employment I am in contact with Australia on an almost daily zoom calls, so yes I have a full understanding of whats going on back there. Need anything else while I'm here?

wow well done see now we are getting somewhere...do you see the common denominator here?its the government that do all these things...so maybe you can stop blaming the people...the only way we could have been like australia was for the uk and ireland to close our borders back in march and that horse has bolted...lockdown as a way of controlling a virus once it is rampant will not work

RobitTV

Vaccine Table UK - (Doses per 100 adults)

Wales: 54.3 (+1.4)
England: 49.0 (+1.1)
N. Ireland: 46.6 (+0.4)
Scotland: 46.2 (+0.6)

The rest of Europe can only dream of this.

Enter name here

themacattack. wrote: »

wow well done see now we are getting somewhere...do you see the common denominator here?its the government that do all these things...so maybe you can stop blaming the people...the only way we could have been like australia was for the uk and Ireland to close our borders back in march and that horse has bolted...lockdown as a way of controlling a virus once it is rampant will not work

Totally agree, yes the borders should have been shut down. But we have been far too lenient on those who choose to ignore the restrictions in place. A heavy fine/imprisonment should have been implemented also. The Gardi should have been given far greater powers to detain and arrest rule breakers. Protests should have been closed down immediately, college kids ignoring rules should have been expelled and thrown out on their arses. But no we continue to allow certain sections of the community to do as they please and as long as that continues we are going to be in an endless cycle of lockdowns. The time to get tough has already passed but it doesn't mean we cant at least try to regain some control.

walus

Enter name here wrote: »

I hold dual citizenship to Australia and Ireland, I have lived in both countries extensively. For one Australia has a police force that carry weapons and enforce the law, they don't have a force to simply act as a community guardian and help little old ladies across the road or pull cats of out trees. They also implemented a heavy fine system if you were caught breaking covid protocols, they closed the borders down, if people considered them self above the law like some did they were physically dragged from their houses or vehicles and arrested. And yes through my employment I am in contact with Australia on an almost daily zoom calls, so yes I have a full understanding of whats going on back there. Need anything else while I'm here?

There have been over 190 countries who implemented lockdown-until-vaccine strategy. Two countries were successful. The remaining countries are still trying to emulate the 2. Unsuccessfully. What does that tell you about this approach?

gozunda

RobitTV wrote: »

It really is astonishing to see the level of middle class snobbery that still remains within our society. I come from a middle class background, and it's truly sad to see the level of snobbery and begrudgery that runs within the blood of Irish society and on this thread.

As long as you have your life sorted out and have a family, house and a car then some people don't care about other people. They don't share the same life experiences as many younger people or less well off families.

They despise surrounding themselves with ordinary people. They despise Irish culture. The true colours of the snobbery brigade have been shown throughout this last year.

Don't expect any sympathy or compassion from these people. They have been exposed. They are the true definition of selfish and self absorbed.

Mental health is not important to these people.

RobitTV wrote: »

Shocking level snobbery on here today. This has got to be a new record. Awful.

Wtf? Eh what "snobbery"? Are all those who you disagree with "snobs" or is that just simply more
bizarre and lazy name calling?

RobitTV - have you've invested in a crystal ball and now know everyone's socio-economic class and whether they have a "car" or a "house" or otherwise????

And that these self same "middle class" snobs who God forbid own a 'house' and a 'car' are ALL of a hive mind but do not "share the same life experiences as many younger people or less well off families. ..."They despise surrounding themselves with ordinary people" and "Irish culture"

Jayzus just when I thought the last bus to Hyperbole Land had already departed :rolleyes:

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

It has been deliberately derailed in a blatant effort to antagonise posters and get the thread locked. Don't engage inflammatory drivel.

To be fair BH, both sides of the debate are as bad as each other for the last long time. The name calling and labelling completely drowns out any coherent point either side might have.
For every poster like yer man a few pages back that doesn’t give a fcuk about a stranger dying (I genuinely feel sorry for him and hope he hangs in there, vaccines WILL end this thing), there’s another who equally doesn’t give a fcuk about a stranger losing their job as long as their own family is safe. The only ones I’ve really no time for are the ones that think it’s all a conspiracy and that anyone actually wants or likes any of this.

RobitTV

gozunda wrote: »

Wtf? Eh what "snobbery"? Are all those who you disagree with "snobs" or is that just simply more
bizarre lazy name calling?

RobitTV - have you've invested in a crystal ball and now know everyone's socio-economic class and whether they have a "car" or a "house" or otherwise????

And that these self same "middle class" snobs who God forbid own a 'house' and a 'car' are ALL of a hive mind but do not "share the same life experiences as many younger people or less well off families. ..."They despise surrounding themselves with ordinary people" and "Irish culture"

Jayzus just when I thought the last bus to Hyperbole Land had already departed :rolleyes:

Gozunda, after the last time we interacted I or both of us were advised to place one another on the ignore list by the moderator. Let's leave it be.

Thanks.

Enter name here

walus wrote: »

There have been over 190 countries who implemented lockdown-until-vaccine strategy. Two countries were successful. The remaining countries are still trying to emulate the 2. Unsuccessfully. What does that tell you about this approach?

It tells me that we and others have been far too lenient and trusting of their populations. Also China would make a 3rd country and a few more to your list. They did it by controlling their populations. They didn't pander to the left. They created rules and protocols and enforced them whole heartedly unlike us and others who created protocols as a guide yet failed to enforce them.

We could start by having a 1000 euro fine for rule breakers and increasing the fines if they reoffend. Also enforcing the fine if they don't pay up then they are thrown in prison until such time as the debt is worked off.

Russman

walus wrote: »

There have been over 190 countries who implemented lockdown-until-vaccine strategy. Two countries were successful. The remaining countries are still trying to emulate the 2. Unsuccessfully. What does that tell you about this approach?

That doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a better way. Global pandemics don’t rock around every few years for us to learn what works. Maybe there is no other way to deal with one that doesn’t condemn X number of people to death/serious illness ?

walus

Enter name here wrote: »

It tells me that we and others have been far too lenient and trusting of their populations. Also China would make a 3rd country and a few more to your list. They did it by controlling their populations. They didn't pander to the left. They created rules and protocols and enforced them whole heartedly unlike us and others who created protocols as a guide yet failed to enforce them.

The only information that is there to take is that this strategy has only 1% success rate.

Turning most countries into totalitarian or police states thankfully was not an option for most countries.

walus

Russman wrote: »

That doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a better way. Global pandemics don’t rock around every few years for us to learn what works. Maybe there is no other way to deal with one that doesn’t condemn X number of people to death/serious illness ?

What is interesting though that we did not see governments thinking individually and working out their own specific strategies. I recon at this stage we would have had a handful working strategies.

There was only one strategy from the beginning, calling for lockdowns in anticipation of a vaccine. Who came up with that. Surely not 195 governments thinking independently.

bb1234567

RobitTV wrote: »

52 deaths today in the UK which is down significantly on a typical Sunday. The impressive vaccine rollout is having a real impact.

4,618 cases. Which is the lowest in a long time.

Yeh it's really amazing to see how dramatic the drop is! Deaths in the US are also dropping like a stone

Enter name here

walus wrote: »

The only information that is there to take is that this strategy has only 1% success rate.

Turning most countries into totalitarian or police states thankfully was not an option for most countries.

So are you trying to say Australia and New Zealand are police states for enforcing the rules lol?

thebaz

bb1234567 wrote: »

Yeh it's really amazing to see how dramatic the drop is! Deaths in the US are also dropping like a stone

all the more reason for Ireland to up ther vaccination program - yet it is hampered and sluggish due to the bureaucracy of our EU masters; so little confidence in Martin, but sadly opposition seam little better.

walus

Enter name here wrote: »

So are you trying to say Australia and New Zealand are police states for enforcing the rules lol?

That is not what I’m saying. This strategy requires a number of conditions to be right for it to work. Natural and/or enforceable (human made). You cannot simply take it and implement just because it worked in i.e. New Zealand etc.

Russman

walus wrote: »

What is interesting though that we did not see governments thinking individually and working out their own specific strategies. I recon at this stage we would have had a handful working strategies.

There was only one strategy from the beginning, calling for lockdowns in anticipation of a vaccine. Who came up with that. Surely not 195 governments thinking independently.

They may have done, health experts the world over regularly talk to each other, I take your point though. But if we take the varying degrees of lockdown as separate strategies...?
I dunno, I mean, it’s a respiratory illness and pretty much the only way it can spread is with people being in close contact. The way to stop it spreading hasn’t changed and won’t ever change. Unfortunately for us, while most get it mild, it’s just serious enough to cause havoc in our healthcare system (while obviously not being the Black Plague), and it’s just virulent enough to spread like crazy when people mix (while not being measles).
I honestly, hand on heart, can’t see what else we could realistically have done here in terms of a broad strategy. Aspects of it of course, should have been better, like the airports etc.

walus

Russman wrote: »

They may have done, health experts the world over regularly talk to each other, I take your point though. But if we take the varying degrees of lockdown as separate strategies...?
I dunno, I mean, it’s a respiratory illness and pretty much the only way it can spread is with people being in close contact. The way to stop it spreading hasn’t changed and won’t ever change. Unfortunately for us, while most get it mild, it’s just serious enough to cause havoc in our healthcare system (while obviously not being the Black Plague), and it’s just virulent enough to spread like crazy when people mix (while not being measles).

I get your point. Lockdown as a method has been only a theory prior to 2020. Countries had pandemic strategies in place for many years prior to this, and all chose to flush them down the toilet at the same time? They worked to put them in place for months or years on end only to scrap them altogether? That is just bizarre.

Neagra

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Any chance of being more specific? Isnt there a US embargo on exporting vaccines for a start?

well this does not help

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/30000-vaccination-appointments-for-high-risk-groups-cancelled-due-to-suspension-of-astrazeneca-jab-40195227.html

i want you and graham and a few other posters here who refuse to open their eyes, to justify the stopping of astraZeneca vaccines without sounding like an idiot.
the average person in this country dont give a **** anymore.
the jig is up.

Russman

walus wrote: »

I get your point. Lockdown as a method has been only theory prior to 2020. Countries had pandemic strategies in place for many years prior to this, and all chose to flush them down the toilet at the same time? They worked to put them in place for months or years on end only to scrap them altogether? That is just bizarre.

Agree. I’ve no knowledge at all of any of these plans, at a complete guess I’d say they were probably aimed at something way more serious, Ebola or something akin to bio warfare maybe. For whatever reason covid is mild enough that most will be fine, but serious enough that systems will be overloaded if let rip. It’s weird as fcuk, even when people in the same house sometime don’t even get it when another member does. My friend has 3 teenagers, one of them got it, rest of the family all tested negative twice. Another family I know, the mother in her 60s got it and was fine, the healthy daughter in her 20s spent a week in hospital with it at the same time.

TonyMaloney

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So those places absolutely need to be shut down to stop people going there and possibly spreading the virus, but at the same time, if they were open no one would go there and they would be in trouble anyway? OK, makes perfect sense lol.

If a large cohort don't partake in society as before, of course there will be economic consequences.
It's a really simple point and I don't see what you're laughing at.

In short what I'm saying is that opening up is not the panacea to our economic woes that many of you think it would be.