Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

walus

JRant wrote: »

Speaking of more debt Fintan, Nolan was on the radio Friday morning throwing out 10 week add-ons like they were confetti. At the current rates a further 10 weeks is 1.5 billion extra in PUP payments alone. Add in the additional 10 weeks he casually threw in and that's 3 billion that needs to be magiced up. All said without a care in the world I may add, like he was talking about going to the shops for a box of teebags.

After sinking 50bn in it, 3bn must seem like confetti to these guys.

CalamariFritti

bb1234567 wrote: »

But even stranger is the fact as more and more people of that small group who are at risk from death are vaccinated , the lockdowns only seem to be getting longer and more strict. Nursing home residents make up 50% of our deaths and are all safe bc of vaccine now and yet lockdown has not changed even slightly to reflect deaths have at least been slashed in half already. 'Ring of steel' with probably one of the largest gardai force deployments in state history descending on the city this week to stamp out any kind of possibility for the public to voice their concerns and woes in solidarity. I don't buy into any conspiracy theories but at this stage I'm nearly a bit more sympathetic to those who have resorted to them to make some kind of sense of this madness.

Not only that but they still have the fully vaccinated nursing home residents locked up with full PPE. Also interactions with the fully vaccinated staff only in full PPE. And they are now allowed a visit (or two?) a week also with full PPE and no touching.

If we needed any idea about the nphet mindset and whats in stock for us in their future, there it is.

FintanMcluskey

JRant wrote: »

Speaking of more debt Fintan, Nolan was on the radio Friday morning throwing out 10 week add-ons like they were confetti. At the current rates a further 10 weeks is 1.5 billion extra in PUP payments alone. Add in the additional 10 weeks he casually threw in and that's 3 billion that needs to be magiced up. All said without a care in the world I may add, like he was talking about going to the shops for a box of teebags.

It’s a frightening disconnection from reality the way 3 billion can be so frivolously spent.

We have diabolical infrastructure for our position on the global debt league.

We aren’t using the money for any investment, it’s just keeping the lights on.

In business it would be reckless trading, the IMF or an EU appointed management group need to take charge in Ireland to sort this.

It’s reckless use of funding, especially so with tens of thousands of construction workers receiving PUP

What will the health service look like when the ground staff like nurses receive pay cuts, higher tax rate’s and recruitment is frozen?

stargazer 68

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Not only that but they still have the fully vaccinated nursing home residents locked up with full PPE. Also interactions with the fully vaccinated staff only in full PPE. And they are now allowed a visit (or two?) a week also with full PPE and no touching.

If we needed any idea about the nphet mindset and whats in stock for us in their future, there it is.

Not quite accurate. Our residents do not wear any ppe and are free to go around the unit as usual - as they always have been. Activities have recommenced with staff in masks only. Visitors will have to wear masks only but be temperature checked on arrival. Now we could be different to other places but on speaking to staff in other nursing homes I dont think we are.

TheDoctor

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Not quite accurate. Our residents do not wear any ppe and are free to go around the unit as usual - as they always have been. Activities have recommenced with staff in masks only. Visitors will have to wear masks only but be temperature checked on arrival. Now we could be different to other places but on speaking to staff in other nursing homes I dont think we are.

What percentage of your residents/staff have now received a vaccine?

JRant

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s a frightening disconnection from reality the way 3 billion can be so frivolously spent.

We have diabolical infrastructure for our position on the global debt league.

We aren’t using the money for any investment, it’s just keeping the lights on.

In business it would be reckless trading, the IMF or an EU appointed management group need to take charge in Ireland to sort this.

It’s reckless use of funding, especially so with tens of thousands of construction workers receiving PUP

What will the health service look like when the ground staff like nurses receive pay cuts, higher tax rate’s and recruitment is frozen?

Never fear, our great leaders in the Dail gave themselves a nice little pay rise recently as they have done such a great job.

Remember, it's very easy to spend other people's money. Especially when there's no accountability. I feel there will be some serious investigations when this government are replaced. Has there been any oversight into the extraordinary sums of money paid to private hospitals, PPE contracts, etc.

Oh, and tax hikes are coming in both direct and indirect taxation. More than likely this October when we should be more or less fully open.

stargazer 68

TheDoctor wrote: »

What portion of your residents/staff have now received a vaccine?

95% of residents and 90+% staff. But our residents never wore PPE, not even masks. It's their home. Staff wore full PPE if a resident has covid. Other than that just masks around the unit and gloves if giving personal care.

SnuggyBear

bb1234567 wrote: »

Ah, there's only so much that can be said about the virus itself. Think everyones bored of it nearly at this stage. Anyway it hardly even feels like it's just about the virus anymore, today when I was walking to the shop feeling agry about the current near endless feeling of limits on my life I actually forgot momentarily about the virus itself and it just felt like it was strife against these restrictions that exist for no reason to no real benefit. At this stage I'd say majority of people are more concerned about damage caused by ongoing lockdowns itself thn the health risk or risk to healthcare system from the virus.

Ye your right I never actually think of getting the virus or am I scared of it. I just worry about the future of living with these restrictions and not the virus itself. I honestly couldn't care less about catching the virus.

gozunda

suicide_circus wrote: »

The social contract was this;

We'll stay in our homes until vulnerable people start being vaccinated and at that stage the restrictions need to start to evaporate.

This has not happened, in fact all the recent messaging has been quite the opposite.

It's piss poor people management.

First - where is this 'social contract' of which you speak?

Secondly - this:

We'll stay in our homes until vulnerable people start being vaccinated and at that stage the restrictions need to start to evaporate.

As far as I aware - the original plan was to stop case numbers rising so that our health care resources would not be overrun. With one near exception we've managed to largely dodge that.

As for vaccines - it appears that the early development of at least 4 different vaccines means that the world is well ahead of being able to manage future outbreaks by getting a critical mass of people vaccinated than was believed possible

In Ireland atm - we are still working our way through the vaccination of those most likley to become seriously ill. We have by no means all those in those categories vaccinated at this point in time. Even the UK who are way ahead with vaccinations have yet to roll back anything.

So where we are atm with regard to restrictions - has absolutely nothing to do with bizarrely wanting to throw everything out the window the minute those who are vulnerable "start being vaccinated"

Do you really believe that people need to be "managed" rather than accepting that the absolute majority of people actually have a decent amount of cop on?

growleaves

Fintan,

We are the third most indebted country in the world like you say.

The first is the US which, because the dollar is the international reserve currency, has unique opportunities to deflate costs. Even now a person can live cheaply in the US if they don't take on a lot of personal debt. Many American cities have the best price to income ratio for housing in the world.

The second is Japan which has already been engaged in a form of QE since the 1990s, inflating asset prices and strangling economic activity. Result: People working themselves to death, collapsed birth rates, tiny pods for rent in Tokyo in lieu of affordable housing. Disaster.

Then us. Nothing particularly unique about us that should put in this company except, oh wait, "caution". We're too 'risk-averse' to forgo financial ruin.

growleaves

gozunda wrote: »

First - where is this 'social contract' of which you speak?

They're posted out based on the electoral register. Did you not get yours?

TheDoctor

growleaves wrote: »

Fintan,

We are the third most indebted country in the world like you say.

The first is the US which, because the dollar is the international reserve currency, has unique opportunities to deflate costs. Even now a person can live cheaply in the US if they don't take on a lot of personal debt. Many American cities have the best price to income ratio for housing in the world.

The second is Japan which has already been engaged in a form of QE since the 1990s, inflating asset prices and strangling economic activity. Result: People working themselves to death, collapsed birth rates, tiny pods for rent in Tokyo in lieu of affordable housing. Disaster.

Then us. Nothing particularly unique about us that should put in this company except, oh wait, "caution". We're too 'risk-averse' to forgo financial ruin.

Nice to be on the podium

CalamariFritti

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Not quite accurate. Our residents do not wear any ppe and are free to go around the unit as usual - as they always have been. Activities have recommenced with staff in masks only. Visitors will have to wear masks only but be temperature checked on arrival. Now we could be different to other places but on speaking to staff in other nursing homes I dont think we are.

Thank you, I read otherwise but gladly accept to be corrected from someone first hand.

Having said that, if staff and residents are vaccinated I wonder why the masks? Is that a direction from above or is that something ye are doing yourselves?

stargazer 68

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thank you, I read otherwise but gladly accept to be corrected from someone first hand.

Having said that, if staff and residents are vaccinated I wonder why the masks? Is that a direction from above or is that something ye are doing yourselves?

Direction from above. In all public areas and in meetings as well as if working in close proximity with another member of staff.

Penfailed

JRant wrote: »

Speaking of more debt Fintan, Nolan was on the radio Friday morning throwing out 10 week add-ons like they were confetti. At the current rates a further 10 weeks is 1.5 billion extra in PUP payments alone. Add in the additional 10 weeks he casually threw in and that's 3 billion that needs to be magiced up. All said without a care in the world I may add, like he was talking about going to the shops for a box of teebags.

Did he actually say anything about restrictions easing after 10 weeks or being extended by ten weeks? ...or did he actually say things would be different in 10 weeks? They're two completely different things.

bb1234567

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Ye your right I never actually think of getting the virus or am I scared of it. I just worry about the future of living with these restrictions and not the virus itself. I honestly couldn't care less about catching the virus.

It's funny after I said that I went on a jog and was approaching these two young lads with masks on from the back. They both nearly killed themselves jumping out onto the road when my footsteps got close! Gave me a fright it was so sudden. Was weird seeing Two guys that age so startled by people , haven't seen stuff like that since last summer

JRant

Penfailed wrote: »

Did he actually say anything about restrictions easing after 10 weeks or being extended by ten weeks? ...or did he actually say things would be different in 10 weeks? They're two completely different things.

Trying my best to remember exactly what he said Pen but from what I recall he said no easing of restrictions in any "meaningful way" (whatever that means, probably level 5) for the next 10 weeks and we may be in a different place 10 weeks after that again. Could mean absolutely anything but using past actions to try determine future ones I would hazord a guess that he isn't talking about opening everything up. Could be wrong though (wouldn't be the first time either )

gozunda

growleaves wrote: »

They're posted out based on the electoral register. Did you not get yours?

What was posted about Covid-19 certainly did not state

"We'll stay in our homes until vulnerable people start being vaccinated and at that stage the restrictions need to start to evaporate"

Stheno

JRant wrote: »

Trying my best to remember exactly what he said Pen but from what I recall he said no easing of restrictions in any "meaningful way" (whatever that means, probably level 5) for the next 10 weeks and we may be in a different place 10 weeks after that again. Could mean absolutely anything but using past actions to try determine future ones I would hazord a guess that he isn't talking about opening everything up. Could be wrong though (wouldn't be the first time either )

This is what he said

"What concerns us is that as things begin to open, it's not so much the opening of that thing itself, it's the signal that we all read into it. The lockdown is very hard on all of us, it's a very long period and it's going to continue for further weeks until we're closer to the disease being under control. The first thing we're concerned about is the increased mobility and tendency to return to the workplace and increased social mixing that occurs around schools reopening - not the opening of schools themselves.

"What I worry about is if we rush. In 10 weeks time, we'll be in quite a different scenario.

"10 weeks after that, we'll be in a different scenario again. I worry that we might literally squander the sacrifice of thousands of people over the last year if we rush to do things too quickly over the next 10-20 weeks. It's not that nothing can happen until everybody is vaccinated, that's not true.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/coronavirus-ireland-nphet-expert-prof-20099259.amp

JRant

Stheno wrote: »

This is what he said



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/coronavirus-ireland-nphet-expert-prof-20099259.amp

Thanks for the link Stheno. I'm not sure what he's getting at with those comments to be honest. How will we be in a worse position in 10 weeks when the over 70's and a good chunk of high risk will be done by then. 10 weeks after that we are supposed to have a first dose into everyone who wants one. There's being cautious and then there's being downright reckless with the economy and country as a whole.

Penfailed

Stheno wrote: »

This is what he said



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/coronavirus-ireland-nphet-expert-prof-20099259.amp

Cheers. So he didn't say anything whatsoever about restrictions in relation to 10 weeks.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

Cheers. So he didn't say anything whatsoever about restrictions in relation to 10 weeks.

Did you read the article

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Did you read the article

I read the quote above.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

This is what he said



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/coronavirus-ireland-nphet-expert-prof-20099259.amp

But why isn’t Michael coming out and telling all of this, he’s our leader, tis bonkers and no wonder people are confused about where it’s going,

JRant

Penfailed wrote: »

Cheers. So he didn't say anything whatsoever about restrictions in relation to 10 weeks.

He does though. He said we ease restrictions we'll be in a bad place in 10 weeks time, ergo no easing of restrictions.

Graham

JRant wrote: »

He does though. He said we ease restrictions we'll be in a bad place in 10 weeks time, ergo no easing of restrictions.

"What I worry about is if we rush. In 10 weeks time, we'll be in quite a different scenario."

ergo, don't rush.

JRant

Graham wrote: »

"What I worry about is if we rush. In 10 weeks time, we'll be in quite a different scenario."

ergo, don't rush.

He's acting as if we haven't given out over 500,000 doses already. 10 weeks from now the cohort that accounts for 92% of deaths will be completed.
We can't be afraid of opening up some aspects of society in the meantime though. Gyms, hairdressers, barbers and retail can all start to be opened up from April 5th. It's madness to keep lockdown going past that date.

Loafing Oaf

JRant wrote: »

He's acting as if we haven't given out over 500,000 doses already. 10 weeks from now the cohort that accounts for 92% of deaths will be completed.
We can't be afraid of opening up some aspects of society in the meantime though. Gyms, hairdressers, barbers and retail can all start to be opened up from April 5th. It's madness to keep lockdown going past that date.

They can but they won't

TonyMaloney

JRant wrote: »

He's acting as if we haven't given out over 500,000 doses already. 10 weeks from now the cohort that accounts for 92% of deaths will be completed.
We can't be afraid of opening up some aspects of society in the meantime though. Gyms, hairdressers, barbers and retail can all start to be opened up from April 5th. It's madness to keep lockdown going past that date.

And you're acting like the only bad outcome from getting covid is death.
And this misunderstanding of what is going on right now colours everything else you say.

I don't necessarily disagree that restrictions should be loosened in April, but it should be done from an honest appraisal of where we are.

Monster249

TonyMaloney wrote: »

And you're acting like the only bad outcome from getting covid is death.
And this misunderstanding of what is going on right now colours everything else you say.

I don't necessarily disagree that restrictions should be loosened in April, but it should be done from an honest appraisal of where we are.

Are you for one second suggesting that we should be in lockdown to prevent illness?

Once the at-risk groups that form 92% of the deaths are vaccinated, we have to be fully open. Suggesting we should still have restrictions because people will still get sick is laughable.