Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

TonyMaloney

Monster249 wrote: »

Are you for one second suggesting that we should be in lockdown to prevent illness?

Once the at-risk groups that form 92% of the deaths are vaccinated, we have to be fully open. Suggesting we should still have restrictions because people will still get sick is laughable.

That you can even ask that first question betrays a total lack of understanding about what's going on.
Yes, we should mitigate this virus even if it's not causing death because it can shut down our entire health service.

Twelve months in and you're still missing the basic understanding of why we're doing this. No wonder you're so angry.

Graces7

Graham wrote: »

"What I worry about is if we rush. In 10 weeks time, we'll be in quite a different scenario."

ergo, don't rush.

Graham; changing the emphasis?

Puzzled as to why there is so much written re the restrictions being solely or even primarily to " protect the vulnerable"?

We are cocooned. Many of us have been thus for years before covid arrived. we have almost if any contact with the world outside out homes and THAT is what protects us.

Nothing to do with the restrictions for the general public, so what is this " sacrifice" for us about please? Many of us are very isolated and alone and we have our own support systems in place already for provisions and care.

My awareness about restrictions has always been that this is all to prevent covid running riot and rampant through the general populations and thus threatening and overwhelming the health service.

So not to do with protecting us? We are well protected whatever happens re restrictions as we always have been wonderfully by the existing provisions that are in place. In some areas the Gardaí have helped also.

So if restrictions go? See the Mayo thread here on boards and read the details of what happened at Belmullet at Christmas .

On that issue too. One of the problems HSE faces is lack of trained staff to increase bed numbers ( which they already have done in many places) , Ireland trains excellent doctors and nurses but too many decide to go overseas as soon as they are qualified, and it takes years to fully train an ICU nurse. Some countries counteract this by making it mandatory to work a certain number of years here after qualifying. ( there have been similar issues in the UK and they are using student nurses widely now)

Just a couple of things ! Excuse me now a while please? Leaving these issues in your very capable hands. Stay well!

Graces7

TonyMaloney wrote: »

That you can even ask that first question betrays a total lack of understanding about what's going on.
Yes, we should mitigate this virus even if it's not causing death because it can shut down our entire health service.

Twelve months in and you're still missing the basic understanding of why we're doing this. No wonder you're so angry.

Thank you for this reality: I had already posted on this point before I read this. It was clear yesterday re the " sacrificing for the vulnerable" posts that there was serious misunderstanding on this. We are already safe and protected.

I wonder too how many here have lost loved ones of less than old age to covid? Or have folk disabled by it.

JRant

TonyMaloney wrote: »

And you're acting like the only bad outcome from getting covid is death.
And this misunderstanding of what is going on right now colours everything else you say.

I don't necessarily disagree that restrictions should be loosened in April, but it should be done from an honest appraisal of where we are.

Not at all Tony. HCWs were the first to receive vaccines and the majority have received at least one at this stage. That alone takes huge pressure off the hospital system as people off sick or isolating was a massive burden over January/February. Protecting the health system has been the number one priority. After this it's a numbers game on the daily deaths chart that's plastered all over the news every day. If the 70+ cohort are done that's an incredible positive and it needs to be acknowledged that we should see death numbers from COVID plummet and stay that way.

After this it's about the risk that's acceptable to society in general. Do we continue to trample all over our freedoms for the odd few who will get seriously sick because of COVID and stay in severe restrictions until 80% of people who can be vaccinated are? Or do we start to lift these draconian measures as quickly as possible, which will inevitably lead to some getting sick and dieing but I'm very small numbers.

Penfailed

JRant wrote: »

He does though. He said we ease restrictions we'll be in a bad place in 10 weeks time, ergo no easing of restrictions.

You've added the, "ergo..." bit yourself. He didn't say it.

JRant

Graces7 wrote: »

Thank you for this reality: I had already posted on this point before I read this. It was clear yesterday re the " sacrificing for the vulnerable" posts that there was serious misunderstanding on this. We are already safe and protected.

I wonder too how many here have lost loved ones of less than old age to covid? Or have folk disabled by it.

You have absolutely no idea of the personal circumstances of anyone else in this thread though. My family and I were very strict during the past 12 months as my own father was seriously I'll and would not have faired well if he caught COVID. That responsibility was on us to do and at no time did we expect society as a whole to lockdown though. Unfortunately he passed away in the last few weeks. Now let me tell you the real effects of these lockdowns, the last year of his life he didn't get to spend as much time with his family as he would have done normally. He spent 2 months in hospital and none of us could go and see him. Most of his family couldn't attend the funeral and we couldn't give him a traditional send off.

So maybe it's you who should take a look at the bigger picture here and realise how much people are being asked to sacrifice on a daily basis. There are worst things than COVID out there and having a myopic view on it only harms society in general.

JRant

Penfailed wrote: »

You've added the, "ergo..." bit yourself. He didn't say it.

I know I added that bit and I've explained why I think this will be the case. If you don't agree that's fine but from reading the article and judging on previous experience it's fairly clear to me what he means.

fred funk }{

Monster249 wrote: »

Are you for one second suggesting that we should be in lockdown to prevent illness?

Once the at-risk groups that form 92% of the deaths are vaccinated, we have to be fully open. Suggesting we should still have restrictions because people will still get sick is laughable.

There was someone on twitter the other day suggestion we should remain in level 5 indefinitely as they know of a few under 65's who are in hispital with Covid. The mind boggles.

Monster249

TonyMaloney wrote: »

That you can even ask that first question betrays a total lack of understanding about what's going on.
Yes, we should mitigate this virus even if it's not causing death because it can shut down our entire health service.

Twelve months in and you're still missing the basic understanding of why we're doing this. No wonder you're so angry.

My god, the fact you're coming out with this clearly displays a warped sense of reality. You understand that in this little world we live in, people are going to get sick and die, that's life and that's unavoidable. It's not the public's job to put out lives on hold for any longer to protect people who may become I'll (but survive). That's the job of the government and HSE. Lockdowns were employed because there WAS a risk of the HSE becoming overrun but that risk will be significantly mitigated by the time the at-risk groups are vaccinated. After that, they can't keep the economy shut just to save every last soul.

Our healthcare system won't be overrun once the vulnerable are vaccinated, it hasn't become overrun as-is with no one vaccinated. Stop scaremongering, it's just flat out untrue.

Luckily, the government won't entertain lockdowns for much longer because they simply can't afford it. If it was people like you in charge, our economy would severely crumble. I'm happily reminded sometimes that as conservative as the leaders of this country are right now, thank christ they are nothing like you.

daydorunrun

Indo going with end of lockdown depends on AstraZeneca getting the ok. We’ll end up looking back on last summer when restrictions were low and we had no vaccines available with envy!!!!

RGS

Monster249 wrote: »

Luckily, the government won't entertain lockdowns for much longer because they simply can't afford it.

I agree with the rest of your post but this bit I'm not confident on.


I really believe the government cant plot a way out until we have 80% of the adult population vaccinated.


If NPHET said reopen society on May 1st government would go for it.


If NPHET said state in level 5 till after the June bank holiday the government will do it.


IMO that's the level of government we currently have.

Boggles

RGS wrote: »

I agree with the rest of your post but this bit I'm not confident on.


I really believe the government cant plot a way out until we have 80% of the adult population vaccinated.


If NPHET said reopen society on May 1st government would go for it.


If NPHET said state in level 5 till after the June bank holiday the government will do it.


IMO that's the level of government we currently have.

NPHET take their remit from governance.

That current remit is schools back and non covid health care back functioning.

A further 350,000 kids went back to school this morning.

fred funk }{

RGS wrote: »

I agree with the rest of your post but this bit I'm not confident on.


I really believe the government cant plot a way out until we have 80% of the adult population vaccinated.


If NPHET said reopen society on May 1st government would go for it.


If NPHET said state in level 5 till after the June bank holiday the government will do it.


IMO that's the level of government we currently have.

Agree.

There was a power struggle last autumn between NPHET and government, NPHET won that and this is the result of that.

Government are terrified to go against them and won't say a word not in agreement with them. Every question they're asked is answered with a referral to NPHET.

Boggles

fred funk }{ wrote: »

There was someone on twitter the other day suggestion we should remain in level 5 indefinitely as they know of a few under 65's who are in hispital with Covid. The mind boggles.

The pulse of the nation right there.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

The pulse of the nation right there.

Indeed, Twitter is trash.

Now I have to go lie down, having agreed with Boggles about something.

dalyboy

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Agree.

There was a power struggle last autumn between NPHET and government, NPHET won that and this is the result of that.

Government are terrified to go against them and won't say a word not in agreement with them. Every question they're asked is answered with a referral to NPHET.

Monday morning rant.
Our government are spineless jellyfish
Not even a whimper from them ref a faster reopening regardless of the over 85’s & HCW vaccinated . We deserve a FULL precise plan of action. A full year of sacrifice deserves at least that.

These idiots are held hostage by fear.
Fear of future vote losses and opposition taking easy advantage of obvious deaths (albeit microscopic levels) upon lifting restrictions.

No plan. No talk of a plan. Just “hold tight” etc . Hold tight for what ??? What’s the end game and how will we know we are approaching it or at it?
Utter economic and societal carnage staring them in the face and they just stutter and meander from day to day , week - week , month - month. Shameful.

Saddened, embarrassing, fearful and overall depressing to be Irish atm

Don't Chute!

Graces7 wrote: »

Graham; changing the emphasis?

Puzzled as to why there is so much written re the restrictions being solely or even primarily to " protect the vulnerable"?

We are cocooned. Many of us have been thus for years before covid arrived. we have almost if any contact with the world outside out homes and THAT is what protects us.

Nothing to do with the restrictions for the general public, so what is this " sacrifice" for us about please? Many of us are very isolated and alone and we have our own support systems in place already for provisions and care.

My awareness about restrictions has always been that this is all to prevent covid running riot and rampant through the general populations and thus threatening and overwhelming the health service.

So not to do with protecting us? We are well protected whatever happens re restrictions as we always have been wonderfully by the existing provisions that are in place. In some areas the Gardaí have helped also.

So if restrictions go? See the Mayo thread here on boards and read the details of what happened at Belmullet at Christmas .

On that issue too. One of the problems HSE faces is lack of trained staff to increase bed numbers ( which they already have done in many places) , Ireland trains excellent doctors and nurses but too many decide to go overseas as soon as they are qualified, and it takes years to fully train an ICU nurse. Some countries counteract this by making it mandatory to work a certain number of years here after qualifying. ( there have been similar issues in the UK and they are using student nurses widely now)

Just a couple of things ! Excuse me now a while please? Leaving these issues in your very capable hands. Stay well!

Let me get this straight. So you are an elderly woman living on your own in a house on an island off the west coast of Ireland who probably has absolutely no sense of the day to day effect of lockdown and now you are saying that you have effectively been “cocooning” for years anyway but you STILL want the rest of us to put our lives on hold indefinitely to protect you? And also, you call anyone who wants to leave the country “rats”? I can’t even begin to understand your mindset.

Don't Chute!

dalyboy wrote: »

Monday morning rant.
Our government are spineless jellyfish
Not even a whimper from them ref a faster reopening regardless of the over 85’s & HCW vaccinated . We deserve a FULL precise plan of action. A full year of sacrifice deserves at least that.

These idiots are held hostage by fear.
Fear of future vote losses and opposition taking easy advantage of obvious deaths (albeit microscopic levels) upon lifting restrictions.

No plan. No talk of a plan. Just “hold tight” etc . Hold tight for what ??? What’s the end game and how will we know we are approaching it or at it?
Utter economic and societal carnage staring them in the face and they just stutter and meander from day to day , week - week , month - month. Shameful.

Saddened, embarrassing, fearful and overall depressing to be Irish atm

A full plan of action?! PAH! Away with you peasants we have no such thing!

Multipass

Don't Chute! wrote: »

A full plan of action?! PAH! Away with you peasants we have no such thing!

Oh they have plans alright. To retire young on their fat pensions, somewhere sunny and warm, leaving the country they destroyed far behind them. Their cheques will always keep coming.

Loafing Oaf

dalyboy wrote: »

No plan. No talk of a plan. Just “hold tight” etc . Hold tight for what ??? What’s the end game and how will we know we are approaching it or at it?

When the virus is suppressed to very low levels or when most of the vulnerable have been vaccinated, whichever comes first.

bb1234567

JRant wrote: »

Not at all Tony. HCWs were the first to receive vaccines and the majority have received at least one at this stage. That alone takes huge pressure off the hospital system as people off sick or isolating was a massive burden over January/February. Protecting the health system has been the number one priority. After this it's a numbers game on the daily deaths chart that's plastered all over the news every day. If the 70+ cohort are done that's an incredible positive and it needs to be acknowledged that we should see death numbers from COVID plummet and stay that way.

After this it's about the risk that's acceptable to society in general. Do we continue to trample all over our freedoms for the odd few who will get seriously sick because of COVID and stay in severe restrictions until 80% of people who can be vaccinated are? Or do we start to lift these draconian measures as quickly as possible, which will inevitably lead to some getting sick and dieing but I'm very small numbers.

I'm stunned by suggestions of continued lockdown of this severity once the elderly are vaccinated. Even as it was when they were unvaccinated rolling lockdowns like this were a difficult sales pitch to justify to much of the population.

Don't Chute!

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

When the virus is suppressed to very low levels or when most of the vulnerable have been vaccinated, whichever comes first.

Last summer is on the phone there, wants a word with you.....

Graham

bb1234567 wrote: »

I'm stunned by suggestions of continued lockdown of this severity once the elderly are vaccinated.

What gave you the impression the restrictions would be removed as soon as the elderly had been vaccinated?

The idea is a little odd to me, there's still a pandemic, there are negative outcomes other then death and we're still struggling to get our case numbers down.

bb1234567

Graham wrote: »

What gave you the impression the restrictions would be removed as soon as the elderly had been vaccinated?

The idea is a little odd to me, there's still a pandemic, there are negative outcomes other then death and we're still struggling to get our case numbers down.

Nothing gave me that impression I expected nothing less in Ireland, but it doesn't make me think it's less unacceptable to maintain current level 5 restrictions when the age group who make up 95% of deaths have been vaccinated . And I'm not saying all restrictions should be lifted but level 5 without a doubt

facehugger99

Multipass wrote: »

Oh they have plans alright. To retire young on their fat pensions, somewhere sunny and warm, leaving the country they destroyed far behind them. Their cheques will always keep coming.

I'm sure it's entirely coincidental, that the architects of this "plan" are wholly insulated and protected from its consequences.

If politicians and NPHET were put on the PUP payment for each week we were in a L3 lockdown and above, one wonders how the strategy would have changed.

Don't worry though, we're all in this together. Remember that over the next few years when taxes are raised and services cut.

Loafing Oaf

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Last summer is on the phone there, wants a word with you.....

Didn't know we had a vaccine last summer

SnuggyBear

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm sure it's entirely coincidental, that the architects of this "plan" are wholly insulated and protected from its consequences.

If politicians and NPHET were put on the PUP payment for each week we were in a L3 lockdown and above, one wonders how the strategy would have changed.

Don't worry though, we're all in this together. Remember that over the next few years when taxes are raised and services cut.

Imagine if even one of them came out and said they will take a pay cut while pip is going

j@utis

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Agree.

There was a power struggle last autumn between NPHET and government, NPHET won that and this is the result of that.

Government are terrified to go against them and won't say a word not in agreement with them. Every question they're asked is answered with a referral to NPHET.

They're not terrified. They're simply avoiding the responsibility. If something goes wrong, all they have to say "it wasn't our fault", easy!

Graces7

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Let me get this straight. So you are an elderly woman living on your own in a house on an island off the west coast of Ireland who probably has absolutely no sense of the day to day effect of lockdown and now you are saying that you have effectively been “cocooning” for years anyway but you STILL want the rest of us to put our lives on hold indefinitely to protect you? And also, you call anyone who wants to leave the country “rats”? I can’t even begin to understand your mindset.

No. what I said is that no one iS protecting "the vulnerable" by lockdown.

As we do not need you to. We are all protected by being cocooned. So no one is " sacrificing" anything for us.

What I said is that lockdown has nothing to do with "protecting the vulnerable" as others here are saying also. but is to prevent covid spreading in the general community.

So what happens now has nothing ever to do with "protecting" me or anyone, as we do not need protecting as we are protected already! OK? OK1!

So nothing will essentially change when " the vulnerable" are vaccinated ie lockdown does not hinge on protecting us, but on protecting society at large. So the vaccine is not a magic spell.

Please read what is written.

NB others are saying the same and getting anger also.

Nothing to do with what anyone wants. What we all want is for covid to vanish of the face of the earth without trace

I did not call anyone rats!!!! It was a metaphor! :eek:

PS why can you not present an argument without getting personal with insults etc?

the kelt

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Imagine if even one of them came out and said they will take a pay cut while pip is going

Imagine if one of them had the balls to come out and condemn the scenes around the country with traveller funerals and weddings etc. Nah wont touch that!!

Easier to scold Mary for visiting a friends house for a cup of team out of pure desperation for a bit of social interaction or a family for taking their family outside of their 5k for a walk on a beach