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Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

1454648505199

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭championc


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    Is it possible to mix a 5kw pylontech system with these 10kw aliexpress batteries or do I need an independent bms for the ali batteries prior to the hybrid inverter? Thanks

    Theoritically you could although you must remember that Pylontech use a 15s setup in their batteries, so you would only need 15 AliExpress cells and a 15s BMS

    HOWEVER, while the inverters will "talk" directly to the Pylontech BMS, they can't "talk" to the AliExpress cells, But the two sets in parallel may work once you then set the Pylontechs to have a capacity of about 15kW. The power should equally be drawn off both sets and in the same way, charge both sets.

    So the important part is that all cells must be of the same battery chemistry and the same number of cells per string.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    sebdavis wrote: »
    I have the max panels and a 2kWh battery hooked up to it. Off one of the main suppliers with the equipment coming from GivEnergy

    Time to get the manual out for what the batteries are connected to.

    You need full manual control of the system, ie max charge voltage, minimum voltage, charging/discharging current to name a few.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    graememk wrote: »
    Time to get the manual out for what the batteries are connected to.

    You need full manual control of the system, ie max charge voltage, minimum voltage, charging/discharging current to name a few.

    GIV-BAT-ECO-2.6

    https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/pdfs/giv-battery-eco-datasheet.pdf

    I have the 5kWh invertor Giv-HY5.0


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    championc wrote: »
    HOWEVER, while the inverters will "talk" directly to the Pylontech BMS, they can't "talk" to the AliExpress cells.

    That was my next question, presumably connecting any unsupported batteries, whether DIY EV cells, or cheap import Chinese cells, wouldn't be supported by the inverter companies and therefore would technically invalidate the warranty?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭samdeluxjones


    caycro wrote: »
    Did you get a quote directly from them or through a supplier? Thanks

    Direct.

    When you inquire about a battery they ask for you number then a sales dolly bird sends you all the info on whatsapp.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    That was my next question, presumably connecting any unsupported batteries, whether DIY EV cells, or cheap import Chinese cells, wouldn't be supported by the inverter companies and therefore would technically invalidate the warranty?


    No different to lead acid, as long as you operate within specifications it's fine.

    You'd be far more likely to hurt the batteries than the inverter, if you put incorrect settings in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    graememk wrote: »
    No different to lead acid, as long as you operate within specifications it's fine.

    You'd be far more likely to hurt the batteries than the inverter, if you put incorrect settings in.

    Oh yeah I'm not worried about cooking the inverter, just pointing out that your warranty would be void as soon as you hook them up.

    So if the inverter did go wonky a year down the line for something unrelated, they would probably try and wriggle out of it because your warranty is dead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Ps I figured that this question is a bit off topic for the general solar PV quotes thread so I started a thread specific to the large scale battery expansion.

    Come join in!

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058165926/1/#post116485917


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭samdeluxjones


    https://www.bsl-battery.com/powerwalls.html This crowd doing 10kW powerwall for €1770 + €250 shipping.

    Orders of 10 or more and they will pay for shipping.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭championc


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    That was my next question, presumably connecting any unsupported batteries, whether DIY EV cells, or cheap import Chinese cells, wouldn't be supported by the inverter companies and therefore would technically invalidate the warranty?

    The inverters are not sold as only supporting particular battery modules, but they are sold to be connected to batteries. In general, you can see that inverter manufacturers will sell inverters with profiles for linking specifically to certain types of known battery modules.

    However, they also supply the "Default" option which allows you to attach your own build (once it's around the 48v mark). So this can be made up of

    4 x 12v Lead Acids
    8 x 6v Lead Acids

    14 x 3.7v Li-ion Cells

    7 x 7.6v Leaf Modules

    15 x 3.2v LiFePO4 Cells
    or
    16 x 3.2v LiFePO4 Cells

    So you cannot invalidate the warranty. You are using them for the purpose it was intended and since it is not packaged with any particular store, then it's perfectly OK. If you bought the likes of a GivEnergy Inverter, then maybe this is particularly destigned to be used with only a GivEnergy Battery Pack. However, even with going with a 3rd party solution with this, you are more likely to be in an "unsupported" situation rather than any warranty issue

    Actually, these inverters are very clever really, and will more likely just shut down if they sense any over or under voltage.

    Of course, you will invalidate the warranty if you open the unit up !!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    championc wrote: »
    So you cannot invalidate the warranty.

    Lol, Solis tech support told me that using "unsupported" batteries would invalidate the warranty. I did email back to ask for clarification on what counted as unsupported.

    Ps I started another thread around the subject of big battery expansion. Your expertise would be more than welcome!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    Lads is this battery topic not better suited to trouble shooting page
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101518


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    MAULBROOK wrote: »
    Lads is this battery topic not better suited to trouble shooting page
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101518

    I'd say its more suited to the battery thread!

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058165926/1/#post116491473


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    I'd say its more suited to the battery thread!

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058165926/1/#post116491473

    Man you have your fingers in many pies, nice one :P:P:P


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Tuttlinghorn


    Hi Folks,
    If anyone has the patience I'd appreciate any advice - not just to compare pricing but more to know what spec I should go for, so I can balance vs proposals I'll get from installers.

    Detached house with plenty of south facing roof space. 2 adults and 2 young teens. Mix of underfloor heating and radiators. Oil fired central heating. House very well insulated following big refurb couple of years back.

    Currently have a PHEV and expect to go full EV with next car. Low enough mileage on average.
    annual Electric consumption = 7,700 KWH

    Quoted EUR 10,000 including vat and after allowing for the grant for Supply and install as below, though this is before any site survey (Lockdown)

    4.48 kwp system = 14 x 320w amerisolar panels. 20 Yr warranty
    Solis Hybrid inverter (pay 96 quid to extend warranty from 5 to 10 yrs). Unclear if I'd get 3 or 5k model)
    2.4 KWH pylon tech battery (offered free upgrade to 3.55 if I place order in x weeks etc). 10yr warranty
    Power diverted to water heating (we have a 300l twin coil cylinder)

    Questions are ( I think)
    whether I should go for more panels or different spec of panel or is
    and is there any point getting a battery if I've a PHEV which spends most of its time plugged in during the day?

    Thanks in advance!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    Hi Folks,
    If anyone has the patience I'd appreciate any advice - not just to compare pricing but more to know what spec I should go for, so I can balance vs proposals I'll get from installers.

    Detached house with plenty of south facing roof space. 2 adults and 2 young teens. Mix of underfloor heating and radiators. Oil fired central heating. House very well insulated following big refurb couple of years back.

    Currently have a PHEV and expect to go full EV with next car. Low enough mileage on average.
    annual Electric consumption = 7,700 KWH

    Quoted EUR 10,000 including vat and after allowing for the grant for Supply and install as below, though this is before any site survey (Lockdown)

    4.48 kwp system = 14 x 320w amerisolar panels. 20 Yr warranty
    Solis Hybrid inverter (pay 96 quid to extend warranty from 5 to 10 yrs). Unclear if I'd get 3 or 5k model)
    2.4 KWH pylon tech battery (offered free upgrade to 3.55 if I place order in x weeks etc). 10yr warranty
    Power diverted to water heating (we have a 300l twin coil cylinder)

    Questions are ( I think)
    whether I should go for more panels or different spec of panel or is
    and is there any point getting a battery if I've a PHEV which spends most of its time plugged in during the day?

    Thanks in advance!

    Hi, that's a crazy quote - way overpriced. Wouldn't worry about the make of panels, they are mostly similar enough and they aren't a serious part of the expense.

    Go for as many panels (limited I think to 6.2kw) as you can, the panels are cheap in comparison to the labour to fit them so while they're up on the roof get as many as you can!

    Don't bother with paying for extra warranty for anything - it won't pay you as their will still probably be a charge for fitting etc. Extended warranties are never worth it in my opinion.

    DOn't have an electric car so can't comment that authoritively but for me, I would expect you need a higher rated battery - would have thought minimum 5kw. And I don't know if the current output matters with PHEV etc, but the pylontech's are limited output - I would check if it makes sense to spend a little extra and go with a 'better' battery. EDIT: Just realised I didn't address your question. I'd guess your PHEV battery is about 6kw? If so, that would take a couple of hours in the summer/ nice weather to charge even if it was fully empty. After that you'll be sending any surplus to hot water diverter(?) or the grid. If you have a battery system you keep it for later use. Financially it's probably not going to pay over the life of the system. But once we are all smart metered up, you could potentially be able to charge that battery for free (Bord Gais already doing a tarriff with free power on Saturdays).

    The hot water diverter, I have one and I like it but the argument is made now that for the price of them and with FIT coming, they don't make sense. For me, I have the same setup as you (300litre tank with twin coils) and I like not having to turn on the immersion heaters to heat water on demand. With the diverter I can see what temperature is in my tank (i have an eddi with optional relay board and a couple of RTD's in the tank) remotely. So far this year I haven't turned on the immersions because the boiler either has made enough and the solar has topped it during the day once the battery is charged. I don't think the pure financial argument is always the right one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Quoted EUR 10,000 including vat and after allowing for the grant for Supply and install as below, though this is before any site survey (Lockdown)

    F**k a duck... That's a scandalous price. Nearly double what it should be.

    My advice is price around, don't be afraid to be a pain in the hole coming back here every whop round asking advice again.

    Plenty will attest that I did just that. Had about 6 quotes as far as I recall but when I eventually settled on one most here agreed that it was extremely competitive.

    As for the system you need, fit in as many panels as you can. Don't worry about going any higher for the battery than 2.4kWh as it starts to lose the financial benefit at that stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,735 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    10k for that after grant? That quote should be halved.

    You should be paying 5k max there. Absolute max.

    Who's giving these crazy quotes?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    6 wrote: »
    10k for that after grant? That quote should be halved.

    You should be paying 5k max there. Absolute max.

    Who's giving these crazy quotes?

    The installers who are getting plenty of business from people who are clueless I would guess.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    I got a quote similar from a company when I was getting mine done. Told him my target price and the answer was "I wouldn't get the panels out of the shed for that money". He wanted 10k+ AFTER grant.
    Some rip off merchants knocking around, it is a pity SEAI don't lock the system down


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    sebdavis wrote: »
    I got a quote similar from a company when I was getting mine done. Told him my target price and the answer was "I wouldn't get the panels out of the shed for that money". He wanted 10k+ AFTER grant.
    Some rip off merchants knocking around, it is a pity SEAI don't lock the system down

    Free market - Caveat Emptor!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 agencydude


    Hi guys
    I'm considering getting some electric PV panels where I'd be able to get a SEAI grant.
    My current usage over 12 months is about 4000 Kwh on Daytime tariff and 4000 KWH on night time tariff. I charge an electric car at night time.

    One EV panel installation supplier offered the following 3 options:
    Option 1

    8 Longi Solar (360 W panels) generating 2.9 kwp
    3.0 kVA TSUN Microinverter
    Mounting system : K2 Solidrail
    NO Battery
    Cost After Grant : 3990 euros

    Option 2
    10 TrinaSolar (370 W panels ) generating 3.7 KWp
    Huawai Hybrid inverter 3.3 KVA
    Battery : Huawei LUNA 2000 5.0 KWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 7080 euros

    Option 3
    12 Q CELLS (390 W panels) generating 4.7 KWp
    Sonnen Hybrid inverted 4.6 kVA
    Battery : Sonnen 9.53 7.5 kWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 10390 euros


    On top of these costs if I want an immersion diverter it would be an extra 490 euros
    And a monitoring system from my phone would be 240 euros.

    How do the above figures look to you guys?
    Would any of these options be worth going for?


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Tuttlinghorn


    sebdavis wrote: »
    I got a quote similar from a company when I was getting mine done. Told him my target price and the answer was "I wouldn't get the panels out of the shed for that money". He wanted 10k+ AFTER grant.
    Some rip off merchants knocking around, it is a pity SEAI don't lock the system down


    Thanks - the quote came from a company registered with SEAI.
    I’ll keep shopping.
    Interested in any other viewpoints on the size / capacity / brand of the panels
    And On the battery vs diverted vs EV ...
    thanks All!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    agencydude wrote: »
    Hi guys
    I'm considering getting some electric PV panels where I'd be able to get a SEAI grant.
    My current usage over 12 months is about 4000 Kwh on Daytime tariff and 4000 KWH on night time tariff. I charge an electric car at night time.

    One EV panel installation supplier offered the following 3 options:
    Option 1

    8 Longi Solar (360 W panels) generating 2.9 kwp
    3.0 kVA TSUN Microinverter
    Mounting system : K2 Solidrail
    NO Battery
    Cost After Grant : 3990 euros

    Option 2
    10 TrinaSolar (370 W panels ) generating 3.7 KWp
    Huawai Hybrid inverter 3.3 KVA
    Battery : Huawei LUNA 2000 5.0 KWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 7080 euros

    Option 3
    12 Q CELLS (390 W panels) generating 4.7 KWp
    Sonnen Hybrid inverted 4.6 kVA
    Battery : Sonnen 9.53 7.5 kWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 10390 euros


    On top of these costs if I want an immersion diverter it would be an extra 490 euros
    And a monitoring system from my phone would be 240 euros.

    How do the above figures look to you guys?
    Would any of these options be worth going for?

    Pretty awful figures again. What water diverter are they offering at nearly €500? For that price you'd need to be getting an Eddi. If it's a Solic or whatever they're called, then they're charging double what they should.

    And €240 for use of an app? Da fuk???

    Ask yourself if you really need that much storage. If payback time is important then anything over 2.4kWh is unnecessary.

    Is 12 panels the most you can fit? Far better to get more panels and less battery.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭Alkers


    agencydude wrote: »
    Hi guys
    I'm considering getting some electric PV panels where I'd be able to get a SEAI grant.
    My current usage over 12 months is about 4000 Kwh on Daytime tariff and 4000 KWH on night time tariff. I charge an electric car at night time.

    One EV panel installation supplier offered the following 3 options:
    Option 1

    8 Longi Solar (360 W panels) generating 2.9 kwp
    3.0 kVA TSUN Microinverter
    Mounting system : K2 Solidrail
    NO Battery
    Cost After Grant : 3990 euros

    Option 2
    10 TrinaSolar (370 W panels ) generating 3.7 KWp
    Huawai Hybrid inverter 3.3 KVA
    Battery : Huawei LUNA 2000 5.0 KWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 7080 euros

    Option 3
    12 Q CELLS (390 W panels) generating 4.7 KWp
    Sonnen Hybrid inverted 4.6 kVA
    Battery : Sonnen 9.53 7.5 kWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 10390 euros


    On top of these costs if I want an immersion diverter it would be an extra 490 euros
    And a monitoring system from my phone would be 240 euros.

    How do the above figures look to you guys?
    Would any of these options be worth going for?

    Even that smallest system is at least 1000e overpriced


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭championc


    Get a rough price of a similar system from pricing up the bits on midsummer.ie or solartricity.ie. installers would typically get at least a 20% discount on the prices you see on those websites.

    That will tell you if you are being taken for a ride


  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Patmwgs


    In reference to immersion or power diverter, i have installed the solic 200 wireless for €245. No bells and whistles. It works well . Its connected to a 500 litre tank. With 3kw immersion at the bottom. Needed wireless as my meter box is in workshop about 25 metres away.
    Im not sure if a battery storage system is the way to go for everyone. If you plan on getting an electric vehicle at some time i would use that as my battery system. It would cut down alot of the outlay. As far as monitoring the system goes, it is great at the beginning but you slowly let it get on with things itself, so i would not spend a fortune on it either. You can check the inverter to make sure most of it is working okay. I have a system installed for about 14 years now so this is only my 2 cents.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Hi Folks,
    If anyone has the patience I'd appreciate any advice - not just to compare pricing but more to know what spec I should go for, so I can balance vs proposals I'll get from installers.

    Detached house with plenty of south facing roof space. 2 adults and 2 young teens. Mix of underfloor heating and radiators. Oil fired central heating. House very well insulated following big refurb couple of years back.

    Currently have a PHEV and expect to go full EV with next car. Low enough mileage on average.
    annual Electric consumption = 7,700 KWH

    Quoted EUR 10,000 including vat and after allowing for the grant for Supply and install as below, though this is before any site survey (Lockdown)

    4.48 kwp system = 14 x 320w amerisolar panels. 20 Yr warranty
    Solis Hybrid inverter (pay 96 quid to extend warranty from 5 to 10 yrs). Unclear if I'd get 3 or 5k model)
    2.4 KWH pylon tech battery (offered free upgrade to 3.55 if I place order in x weeks etc). 10yr warranty
    Power diverted to water heating (we have a 300l twin coil cylinder)

    Questions are ( I think)
    whether I should go for more panels or different spec of panel or is
    and is there any point getting a battery if I've a PHEV which spends most of its time plugged in during the day?

    Thanks in advance!
    agencydude wrote: »
    Hi guys
    I'm considering getting some electric PV panels where I'd be able to get a SEAI grant.
    My current usage over 12 months is about 4000 Kwh on Daytime tariff and 4000 KWH on night time tariff. I charge an electric car at night time.

    One EV panel installation supplier offered the following 3 options:
    Option 1

    8 Longi Solar (360 W panels) generating 2.9 kwp
    3.0 kVA TSUN Microinverter
    Mounting system : K2 Solidrail
    NO Battery
    Cost After Grant : 3990 euros

    Option 2
    10 TrinaSolar (370 W panels ) generating 3.7 KWp
    Huawai Hybrid inverter 3.3 KVA
    Battery : Huawei LUNA 2000 5.0 KWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 7080 euros

    Option 3
    12 Q CELLS (390 W panels) generating 4.7 KWp
    Sonnen Hybrid inverted 4.6 kVA
    Battery : Sonnen 9.53 7.5 kWh
    Mounting system : ValkPitch
    Cost After Grant : 10390 euros


    On top of these costs if I want an immersion diverter it would be an extra 490 euros
    And a monitoring system from my phone would be 240 euros.

    How do the above figures look to you guys?
    Would any of these options be worth going for?


    As others have said those are loopy prices, please shop around, you can look back on this thread and see the pricing DrPhil got.

    As another comparison I got 18 Canadian Solar 410w Poly panels, a BPE 5 KW Hybrid Dual MPPT inverter, a Pylon tec 2.4 kw including mounting bracket and all the required cables/switches etc.

    I should point out I've poor aspect and heavy tree shading on my main string so hence oversized panels vs inverter

    Gross cost of €8,620, less grant of €3,000, net cost of €5,620
    Shop around, don't feed the cowboys


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    Thanks - the quote came from a company registered with SEAI.
    I’ll keep shopping.
    Interested in any other viewpoints on the size / capacity / brand of the panels
    And On the battery vs diverted vs EV ...
    thanks All!

    They are all registered now with SEAI. Quality control or pricing is not anything SEAI will help you with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    slave1 wrote: »
    As others have said those are loopy prices, please shop around, you can look back on this thread and see the pricing DrPhil got.

    As another comparison I got 18 Canadian Solar 410w Poly panels, a BPE 5 KW Hybrid Dual MPPT inverter, a Pylon tec 2.4 kw including mounting bracket and all the required cables/switches etc.

    I should point out I've poor aspect and heavy tree shading on my main string so hence oversized panels vs inverter

    Gross cost of €8,620, less grant of €3,000, net cost of €5,620
    Shop around, don't feed the cowboys

    Now that is excellent value. Goes to show that some folks are simply pulling figures out of the air and preying on those who don't have the time or the knowledge to go look in the right places.

    Can you pm me details of your installer?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    deravarra wrote: »
    Now that is excellent value. Goes to show that some folks are simply pulling figures out of the air and preying on those who don't have the time or the knowledge to go look in the right places.

    Can you pm me details of your installer?

    Similiar route I went with also= havn't seen it beaten price wise yet!!

    -Solis Hybrid inverter 5kw to future proof extra panels later date and wifi dongle for inverter app
    -4.8KW battery
    -14 panels JA solar 330w on a west facing roof
    -Eddi water heater for immersion
    -Zappi 2 car charger untethered and myenergie hub
    Fair bit of shading due to trees so hope to lash more panels on east roof and maybe ground mount south facing later .

    7000e after grant - cost to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Some of these quotes are out of this world. 4K after grant for about 1750 worth of stuff. If a qualified installer is getting 1 or 2 of those jobs a week he can do the final commissioning in a day or so and spend the rest of the week driving a black S-Class Merc and stuffing his gob in the Shelbourne once it reopens. Perhaps playing golf with a few TDs while praising how great these SEAI schemes are and gently putting out a few feelers for some of the juicier public tenders coming along. All he needs is a couple of Polish lads he pays 350 a week and treats like sh1t to do all the work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    Similiar route I went with also= havn't seen it beaten price wise yet!!

    -Solis Hybrid inverter 5kw to future proof extra panels later date and wifi dongle for inverter app
    -4.8KW battery
    -14 panels JA solar 330w on a west facing roof
    -Eddi water heater for immersion
    -Zappi 2 car charger untethered and myenergie hub
    Fair bit of shading due to trees so hope to lash more panels on east roof and maybe ground mount south facing later .

    7000e after grant - cost to me.

    That is just amazing!

    What were/are your electricity bills - please include your bill frequency if possible. We're paying about 154 per month with the heavily discounted energia plan. We have no ev at the moment, but will definitely want to go down the road of an Eddi :)
    How has the Eddi been? I will be getting a 300l cylinder in soon, replacing my old tiny cylinder. I am hoping the Eddi will sort out most of my dhw needs. 2-3 showers per day (long shower lovers in this house)


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    deravarra wrote: »
    That is just amazing!

    What were/are your electricity bills - please include your bill frequency if possible. We're paying about 154 per month with the heavily discounted energia plan. We have no ev at the moment, but will definitely want to go down the road of an Eddi :)
    How has the Eddi been? I will be getting a 300l cylinder in soon, replacing my old tiny cylinder. I am hoping the Eddi will sort out most of my dhw needs. 2-3 showers per day (long shower lovers in this house)

    Payback/Savings have been discussed in the monthly stats thread, but going on bills alone can be misleading (due to a better knowledge of energy use, heavily discounted energia rates, etc)

    eg, from my system in feburary (Remember, just coming out of dark winter) I "saved" €19 from the solar power used directly, and battery (capturing excess) saved €9. Only have 2 months under my belt yet so Looking forward to the summer.

    As for the eddi, if there is a battery in the system, this time of year very little if any will be going into it.

    My dad's system doesnt have any (5.6kwp) and in march so far, 34kwh has went into the hot water tank, which would heat 600l of water up by 50C.

    some days nothing goes into it, good days (end of feb), 5-7kw went in.

    I assume you have another way of heating your DHW? oil/gas?

    as your getting a new tank in, will you be able to have that independently control your oil/gas and only heat hot water when needed (ie the heat for the rest of the house doesn't need to be on to heat your hot water)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    graememk wrote: »
    I assume you have another way of heating your DHW? oil/gas?

    as your getting a new tank in, will you be able to have that independently control your oil/gas and only heat hot water when needed (ie the heat for the rest of the house doesn't need to be on to heat your hot water)

    I had a Grant vortex installed just two years ago. At the same time, I got the whole system zoned, and everything is now controlled by an app called Alarm.com via a company based in Cork. Excellent system, and amazing benefits all round. I now spend much less per year in terms of oil fills, but have greater comfort.

    I would be delighted to make the savings in the summer more so than the winter. I would like to think that I would save something on my oil through the year :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    deravarra wrote: »
    That is just amazing!

    What were/are your electricity bills - please include your bill frequency if possible. We're paying about 154 per month with the heavily discounted energia plan. We have no ev at the moment, but will definitely want to go down the road of an Eddi :)
    How has the Eddi been? I will be getting a 300l cylinder in soon, replacing my old tiny cylinder. I am hoping the Eddi will sort out most of my dhw needs. 2-3 showers per day (long shower lovers in this house)

    My bills vary from ~200euro bi-monthly in winter (Nov-Feb) to 80euro or less in summer. Vast majority of that 80 euro is the service charges.

    Very happy with my Eddi. In winter I have the boiler on going through 300l twin coil tank anyway so don't need it. In the last week it's just started getting enough extra power (Monday for instance I got 21kw total, >8kw went to the Eddi and brought the water up to ~65C) to start using = just as the boiler starts to be used less.

    Come summer, boiler won't need to be used at all for the hot water tank - bar the odd sequence of days that we could have consistent dark clouds.

    Other good use I get from the Eddi is I have the relay board fitted and two RTD's so at any time I can check the tank upper and lower temps and decide if it needs a wee boost. Can be boosted then from the mobile phone. (Handy on the mornings I don't want to get out of the bed until there's water for the shower :) ) .

    I would say 2-3long showers a day might be pushing it for the solar depending on size of battery and base load of house, even a full 300l tank will struggle with that if they are all at the same time or directly one after another. TBH, I tend to have them in the evening and herself in the morning so not sure exactly how it would work.

    PM me if you need any extra detail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    Deagol wrote: »
    My bills vary from ~200euro bi-monthly in winter (Nov-Feb) to 80euro or less in summer. Vast majority of that 80 euro is the service charges.

    Very happy with my Eddi. In winter I have the boiler on going through 300l twin coil tank anyway so don't need it. In the last week it's just started getting enough extra power (Monday for instance I got 21kw total, >8kw went to the Eddi and brought the water up to ~65C) to start using = just as the boiler starts to be used less.

    Come summer, boiler won't need to be used at all for the hot water tank - bar the odd sequence of days that we could have consistent dark clouds.

    Other good use I get from the Eddi is I have the relay board fitted and two RTD's so at any time I can check the tank upper and lower temps and decide if it needs a wee boost. Can be boosted then from the mobile phone. (Handy on the mornings I don't want to get out of the bed until there's water for the shower :) ) .

    I would say 2-3long showers a day might be pushing it for the solar depending on size of battery and base load of house, even a full 300l tank will struggle with that if they are all at the same time or directly one after another. TBH, I tend to have them in the evening and herself in the morning so not sure exactly how it would work.

    PM me if you need any extra detail.

    Thank you for the info :)

    When I said long showers, I meant about 5 mins most days before work - and an odd day when I'd be closer to 10 mins. If the shower is being used one after the other, we're either off out somewhere or in a hurry to do something - so that would be the shorter showers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Deagol


    deravarra wrote: »
    Thank you for the info :)

    When I said long showers, I meant about 5 mins most days before work - and an odd day when I'd be closer to 10 mins. If the shower is being used one after the other, we're either off out somewhere or in a hurry to do something - so that would be the shorter showers.

    Me and you have differing definition of long showers :) My after cycle showers are 20mins - sore muscles appreciate a good soak in a serious power shower!

    5 mins x 3 would be no issue with a full 300l tank. One thing to note though is it's amazing how much water stratifies in a tank. I often see top temp at 58C and the bottom at 20C. Without being able to see that i would say you could easily end up with the third shower being a bit cool :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    Deagol wrote: »
    Me and you have differing definition of long showers :) My after cycle showers are 20mins - sore muscles appreciate a good soak in a serious power shower!

    5 mins x 3 would be no issue with a full 300l tank. One thing to note though is it's amazing how much water stratifies in a tank. I often see top temp at 58C and the bottom at 20C. Without being able to see that i would say you could easily end up with the third shower being a bit cool :)

    Poor 3rd shower-haver


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    I dunno how anyone is running out of water for a shower with a 300L tank.

    Have never showered long enough to deplete a standard 150L one. In my day the 300L tank would suffice for an orphanage.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    I dunno how anyone is running out of water for a shower with a 300L tank.

    Have never showered long enough to deplete a standard 150L one. In my day the 300L tank would suffice for an orphanage.

    Punoed showers can use 15l per minute. That 300 litre cylinder could be gone in 20 minutes.
    That's a small orphanage you have there 🀣


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    deravarra wrote: »
    Punoed showers can use 15l per minute. That 300 litre cylinder could be gone in 20 minutes.
    That's a small orphanage you have there 🀣

    Orphanage would have a 5l/min shower head and a queue of orphans shouting at the user to hurry on.

    If I had a 300L tank id be sitting in a hot tub sipping a Singapore sling

    Have pumps on mine and id say they're not using more than 10L/min anyway but probably close to it


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    deravarra wrote: »
    Punoed showers can use 15l per minute. That 300 litre cylinder could be gone in 20 minutes.
    That's a small orphanage you have there ��

    Pure hot water shower for 20 minutes, want to have an ambulance on standby.
    I have pumped shower too but it mixes cold water don’t forget, so if the mixture is 50/50 then that’s 40 minutes.
    It will be shorter in Winter as the cold water from attic tank is colder, longer in Summer as the cold water temp from attic will be “warmer”.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    deravarra wrote: »
    That is just amazing!

    What were/are your electricity bills - please include your bill frequency if possible. We're paying about 154 per month with the heavily discounted energia plan. We have no ev at the moment, but will definitely want to go down the road of an Eddi :)
    How has the Eddi been? I will be getting a 300l cylinder in soon, replacing my old tiny cylinder. I am hoping the Eddi will sort out most of my dhw needs. 2-3 showers per day (long shower lovers in this house)

    As others have said the EDDI will do very little Nov-Feb, if you get a good day outside that then it can easily put a lot to hot water but this totally depends on your house load, battery levels, your potential generation and hot water usage.
    I can see my Eddi taking 1-3 kW a day here and there but this can be made up of streaks of 100-200w etc which in reality can’t be heating the water to a great extent.
    I’d say you’d need a good 1.5kW+ to truly heat water in a meaningful manner.
    EDDI is quite straightforward so a self install if you want to keep costs down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    slave1 wrote: »
    As others have said the EDDI will do very little Nov-Feb, if you get a good day outside that then it can easily put a lot to hot water but this totally depends on your house load, battery levels, your potential generation and hot water usage.
    I can see my Eddi taking 1-3 kW a day here and there but this can be made up of streaks of 100-200w etc which in reality can’t be heating the water to a great extent.
    I’d say you’d need a good 1.5kW+ to truly heat water in a meaningful manner.
    EDDI is quite straightforward so a self install if you want to keep costs down.

    The 1-3kW per day - would there be some occupancy in the home for a good part of the daytime?

    Since both my wife and I are shift workers, we can be away for long parts of the day. That should/could make a difference re: Eddi to dhw - well, I would hope it would.

    18 panels on a west facing roof ... I havent seen that many panels on any domestic roof before.
    We have a south facing roof at a 45 degree angle - no shading at any stage.
    Am looking forward to getting the engineer out for a consultation and seeing what they say/recommend


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    deravarra wrote: »
    The 1-3kW per day - would there be some occupancy in the home for a good part of the daytime?

    Since both my wife and I are shift workers, we can be away for long parts of the day. That should/could make a difference re: Eddi to dhw - well, I would hope it would.

    18 panels on a west facing roof ... I havent seen that many panels on any domestic roof before.
    We have a south facing roof at a 45 degree angle - no shading at any stage.
    Am looking forward to getting the engineer out for a consultation and seeing what they say/recommend

    I have 19 panels on my roof....

    If ESB would allow I would stick another 19 up as well


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,192 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    deravarra wrote: »
    The 1-3kW per day - would there be some occupancy in the home for a good part of the daytime?

    Since both my wife and I are shift workers, we can be away for long parts of the day. That should/could make a difference re: Eddi to dhw - well, I would hope it would.

    18 panels on a west facing roof ... I havent seen that many panels on any domestic roof before.
    We have a south facing roof at a 45 degree angle - no shading at any stage.
    Am looking forward to getting the engineer out for a consultation and seeing what they say/recommend

    If you have a South facing shadeless roof then just fill her up, I don't know why you need an engineer though, just a solar installer.
    If you are not at home then there will be less electricity in use but this depends on your usage pattern, we currently have four at home but our base load is currently 400-500w and that's two PCs and two laptops as well as lights, fridge, freezer etc.
    If you are at home then the only real impact will be anything with an element e.g. oven/shower/dryer/washing machine etc and the majority of these should be on during night rate.
    The weather has a huge part also, yesterday was gloomy from the word go so our generation was 2.8kWh with nothing to hot water, on March 1st I put 9kWh into the water as it was a great day...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭deravarra


    slave1 wrote: »
    If you have a South facing shadeless roof then just fill her up, I don't know why you need an engineer though, just a solar installer.
    If you are not at home then there will be less electricity in use but this depends on your usage pattern, we currently have four at home but our base load is currently 400-500w and that's two PCs and two laptops as well as lights, fridge, freezer etc.
    If you are at home then the only real impact will be anything with an element e.g. oven/shower/dryer/washing machine etc and the majority of these should be on during night rate.
    The weather has a huge part also, yesterday was gloomy from the word go so our generation was 2.8kWh with nothing to hot water, on March 1st I put 9kWh into the water as it was a great day...

    some companies use the term "engineer" for a pre-install inspection.

    I remember eir used it to describe their installers. No more an engineer than I am, and I work in the tech sector :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭idc


    Don't take what the first installer or your engineer tells you as the only way to do it. My SE roof is shaded in winter at different times of the day. Half the installers I spoke to just ignored it even when I suggested it they were like no too much shade don't bother! But the other installers agreed to include it in quotes and were happy once we both understood it might not perform to its optimal in winter. I'm glad I did this as i now have double the panels i would of had otherwise and in the winter i lost approx 30% based on estimates (without shade).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    deravarra wrote: »
    The 1-3kW per day - would there be some occupancy in the home for a good part of the daytime?

    Since both my wife and I are shift workers, we can be away for long parts of the day. That should/could make a difference re: Eddi to dhw - well, I would hope it would.

    18 panels on a west facing roof ... I havent seen that many panels on any domestic roof before.
    We have a south facing roof at a 45 degree angle - no shading at any stage.
    Am looking forward to getting the engineer out for a consultation and seeing what they say/recommend

    I have 20, south east facing.
    I envy your south facing 45dg roof (never thought i would say that) all i can say is plaster the roof with panels. You can never have too much of them.


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