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Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

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Comments

  • #2342
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    CryoSat wrote: »
    After getting some recommendations off of here (thanks again) I think I have narrowed it down to 2 quotes so any input on these would be appreciated.

    1) €6500 - after SEAI grant, 4.2kW

    12 x 340 watt JA panels
    3.6kW Solis Inverter (should I be trying to get a 5Kw?)
    2 x 2.4 kW battery
    Water diverter (in both quotes, I will be requesting to remove this from whichever system I decide on)
    WiFi dongle

    2) €7650 - after SEAI grant, 4.36kW

    13 x 335w Qcells All blk
    Solis Hybrid Inverter w/ energy monitoring app
    PureDrive 5kW
    Marlec Solar iboost

    Still seems pricey, I got a 18 panel 7.4kWp system with 5kW Solis (other posters are bang on, don't restrict yourself to a 3.6kW inverter) and just the one Pylontech battery for €5.6k after grant.
    Looking at both quotes there is still vast room for you to negotiate lower price e.g. comparing quote 1, much bigger array, larger inverter, granted an extra battery and diverter in your quote but this does not account for such a cost difference

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



  • #2343
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    championc wrote: »
    I'd be gobsmacked if we all have the same panels in 10 years time. I reckon that we'll get 33% more output from the same footprint within 5 years

    I don't have the data to hand but from memory efficiency gains are incremental at best and nowhere near 33% over a 5 year timeframe.
    If you can show a trend that there's been a linear homeowner improvement at that rate over the last 5years or projection into the future please share as I would be very interested.
    The larger rated panels we see now are more related to their physical size rather than their efficiency.
    2m x 1m are the guys hitting the 400w mark now, not the smaller ones

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



  • #2344
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    championc wrote: »
    Search for "CALB 200A LiFePO4"

    They have, by far, the sturdiest connectors and bolt sizes, in addition to good strong cases

    Now i know this is probably a stupid question but I will ask anyway
    On this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774602706.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.31.555d7f0cTdNopZ&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.177756.0&scm_id=1007.13338.177756.0&scm-url=1007.13338.177756.0&pvid=90a4402f-0ccb-4ac6-892b-1476a5d108f0&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.13338.177756.0,pvid:90a4402f-0ccb-4ac6-892b-1476a5d108f0,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2347_668%23888%233325%2319_3338%230%23177756%230_3338%233142%239890%237_668%232846%238114%231999_668%232717%237566%23852_668%231000022185%231000066058%230_668%233422%2315392%23239?

    If I search I get
    8pcs new 3.2V 200Ah lifepo4 Battery pack DIY12V 24V 200Ah Electric vehicle golf car Inverter Solar Energy Storage EU US TAX FREE

    Am I correct if I go 8PCS 200Ah that is a total of 9.6kWh?

    Or am I doing this wrong?


  • #2345
    samdeluxjones
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭samdeluxjones


    https://www.bsl-battery.com/powerwalls.html This crowd doing 10kW powerwall for €1770 + €250 shipping.

    Anyone use them?


  • #2346
    caycro
    Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭caycro


    samdeluxjones wrote: »
    https://www.bsl-battery.com/powerwalls.html This crowd doing 10kW powerwall for €1770 + €250 shipping.

    Anyone use them?

    Did you get a quote directly from them or through a supplier? Thanks


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  • #2347
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    sebdavis wrote: »
    Now i know this is probably a stupid question but I will ask anyway
    On this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774602706.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.31.555d7f0cTdNopZ&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.177756.0&scm_id=1007.13338.177756.0&scm-url=1007.13338.177756.0&pvid=90a4402f-0ccb-4ac6-892b-1476a5d108f0&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.13338.177756.0,pvid:90a4402f-0ccb-4ac6-892b-1476a5d108f0,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2347_668%23888%233325%2319_3338%230%23177756%230_3338%233142%239890%237_668%232846%238114%231999_668%232717%237566%23852_668%231000022185%231000066058%230_668%233422%2315392%23239?

    If I search I get
    8pcs new 3.2V 200Ah lifepo4 Battery pack DIY12V 24V 200Ah Electric vehicle golf car Inverter Solar Energy Storage EU US TAX FREE

    Am I correct if I go 8PCS 200Ah that is a total of 9.6kWh?

    Or am I doing this wrong?

    to work out the kwh, its Nominal Voltage[3.2] x Capacity [200] x Number of cells [8] = 5.12kWh

    Normally you need 15 or 16 cells for a 48V system that most inverters run on.

    What sort of setup do you currently have?


  • #2348
    championc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,059 ✭✭✭championc


    sebdavis wrote: »
    Now i know this is probably a stupid question but I will ask anyway
    On this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774602706.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.31.555d7f0cTdNopZ&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.177756.0&scm_id=1007.13338.177756.0&scm-url=1007.13338.177756.0&pvid=90a4402f-0ccb-4ac6-892b-1476a5d108f0&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.13338.177756.0,pvid:90a4402f-0ccb-4ac6-892b-1476a5d108f0,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2347_668%23888%233325%2319_3338%230%23177756%230_3338%233142%239890%237_668%232846%238114%231999_668%232717%237566%23852_668%231000022185%231000066058%230_668%233422%2315392%23239?

    If I search I get
    8pcs new 3.2V 200Ah lifepo4 Battery pack DIY12V 24V 200Ah Electric vehicle golf car Inverter Solar Energy Storage EU US TAX FREE

    Am I correct if I go 8PCS 200Ah that is a total of 9.6kWh?

    Or am I doing this wrong?

    If you searched with the word CALB, you cannot have got the link you gave here.

    Here is the link and the proper cells

    € 1.389,00 30%OFF | NEW 16PCS CALB 3.2v 200Ah LiFePO4 Rechargeable Battery brand new 200AH 24V 48V 200AH Lithium iron Phosphate Packs Solar Battery
    https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtLHTeb


  • #2349
    gomamochi1
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    championc wrote: »
    Search for "CALB 200A LiFePO4"

    They have, by far, the sturdiest connectors and bolt sizes, in addition to good strong cases

    Is it possible to mix a 5kw pylontech system with these 10kw aliexpress batteries or do I need an independent bms for the ali batteries prior to the hybrid inverter? Thanks


  • #2350
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    Is it possible to mix a 5kw pylontech system with these 10kw aliexpress batteries or do I need an independent bms for the ali batteries prior to the hybrid inverter? Thanks

    Don't think it's possible to mix batteries.


  • #2351
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    graememk wrote: »
    to work out the kwh, its Nominal Voltage[3.2] x Capacity [200] x Number of cells [8] = 5.12kWh

    Normally you need 15 or 16 cells for a 48V system that most inverters run on.

    What sort of setup do you currently have?

    I have the max panels and a 2kWh battery hooked up to it. Off one of the main suppliers with the equipment coming from GivEnergy


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  • #2352
    championc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,059 ✭✭✭championc


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    Is it possible to mix a 5kw pylontech system with these 10kw aliexpress batteries or do I need an independent bms for the ali batteries prior to the hybrid inverter? Thanks

    Theoritically you could although you must remember that Pylontech use a 15s setup in their batteries, so you would only need 15 AliExpress cells and a 15s BMS

    HOWEVER, while the inverters will "talk" directly to the Pylontech BMS, they can't "talk" to the AliExpress cells, But the two sets in parallel may work once you then set the Pylontechs to have a capacity of about 15kW. The power should equally be drawn off both sets and in the same way, charge both sets.

    So the important part is that all cells must be of the same battery chemistry and the same number of cells per string.


  • #2353
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    sebdavis wrote: »
    I have the max panels and a 2kWh battery hooked up to it. Off one of the main suppliers with the equipment coming from GivEnergy

    Time to get the manual out for what the batteries are connected to.

    You need full manual control of the system, ie max charge voltage, minimum voltage, charging/discharging current to name a few.


  • #2354
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    graememk wrote: »
    Time to get the manual out for what the batteries are connected to.

    You need full manual control of the system, ie max charge voltage, minimum voltage, charging/discharging current to name a few.

    GIV-BAT-ECO-2.6

    https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/pdfs/giv-battery-eco-datasheet.pdf

    I have the 5kWh invertor Giv-HY5.0


  • #2355
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,191 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    championc wrote: »
    HOWEVER, while the inverters will "talk" directly to the Pylontech BMS, they can't "talk" to the AliExpress cells.

    That was my next question, presumably connecting any unsupported batteries, whether DIY EV cells, or cheap import Chinese cells, wouldn't be supported by the inverter companies and therefore would technically invalidate the warranty?


  • #2356
    samdeluxjones
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭samdeluxjones


    caycro wrote: »
    Did you get a quote directly from them or through a supplier? Thanks

    Direct.

    When you inquire about a battery they ask for you number then a sales dolly bird sends you all the info on whatsapp.


  • #2357
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    That was my next question, presumably connecting any unsupported batteries, whether DIY EV cells, or cheap import Chinese cells, wouldn't be supported by the inverter companies and therefore would technically invalidate the warranty?


    No different to lead acid, as long as you operate within specifications it's fine.

    You'd be far more likely to hurt the batteries than the inverter, if you put incorrect settings in.


  • #2358
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,191 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    graememk wrote: »
    No different to lead acid, as long as you operate within specifications it's fine.

    You'd be far more likely to hurt the batteries than the inverter, if you put incorrect settings in.

    Oh yeah I'm not worried about cooking the inverter, just pointing out that your warranty would be void as soon as you hook them up.

    So if the inverter did go wonky a year down the line for something unrelated, they would probably try and wriggle out of it because your warranty is dead.


  • #2359
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,191 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Ps I figured that this question is a bit off topic for the general solar PV quotes thread so I started a thread specific to the large scale battery expansion.

    Come join in!

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058165926/1/#post116485917


  • #2360
    samdeluxjones
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭samdeluxjones


    samdeluxjones wrote: »
    https://www.bsl-battery.com/powerwalls.html This crowd doing 10kW powerwall for €1770 + €250 shipping.

    Orders of 10 or more and they will pay for shipping.


  • #2361
    championc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,059 ✭✭✭championc


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    That was my next question, presumably connecting any unsupported batteries, whether DIY EV cells, or cheap import Chinese cells, wouldn't be supported by the inverter companies and therefore would technically invalidate the warranty?

    The inverters are not sold as only supporting particular battery modules, but they are sold to be connected to batteries. In general, you can see that inverter manufacturers will sell inverters with profiles for linking specifically to certain types of known battery modules.

    However, they also supply the "Default" option which allows you to attach your own build (once it's around the 48v mark). So this can be made up of

    4 x 12v Lead Acids
    8 x 6v Lead Acids

    14 x 3.7v Li-ion Cells

    7 x 7.6v Leaf Modules

    15 x 3.2v LiFePO4 Cells
    or
    16 x 3.2v LiFePO4 Cells

    So you cannot invalidate the warranty. You are using them for the purpose it was intended and since it is not packaged with any particular store, then it's perfectly OK. If you bought the likes of a GivEnergy Inverter, then maybe this is particularly destigned to be used with only a GivEnergy Battery Pack. However, even with going with a 3rd party solution with this, you are more likely to be in an "unsupported" situation rather than any warranty issue

    Actually, these inverters are very clever really, and will more likely just shut down if they sense any over or under voltage.

    Of course, you will invalidate the warranty if you open the unit up !!!


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  • #2362
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,191 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    championc wrote: »
    So you cannot invalidate the warranty.

    Lol, Solis tech support told me that using "unsupported" batteries would invalidate the warranty. I did email back to ask for clarification on what counted as unsupported.

    Ps I started another thread around the subject of big battery expansion. Your expertise would be more than welcome!


  • #2363
    MAULBROOK
    Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    Lads is this battery topic not better suited to trouble shooting page
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101518


  • #2364
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,191 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    MAULBROOK wrote: »
    Lads is this battery topic not better suited to trouble shooting page
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101518

    I'd say its more suited to the battery thread!

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058165926/1/#post116491473


  • #2365
    MAULBROOK
    Registered Users Posts: 1,470 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    I'd say its more suited to the battery thread!

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058165926/1/#post116491473

    Man you have your fingers in many pies, nice one :P:P:P


  • #2366
    Tuttlinghorn
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Tuttlinghorn


    Hi Folks,
    If anyone has the patience I'd appreciate any advice - not just to compare pricing but more to know what spec I should go for, so I can balance vs proposals I'll get from installers.

    Detached house with plenty of south facing roof space. 2 adults and 2 young teens. Mix of underfloor heating and radiators. Oil fired central heating. House very well insulated following big refurb couple of years back.

    Currently have a PHEV and expect to go full EV with next car. Low enough mileage on average.
    annual Electric consumption = 7,700 KWH

    Quoted EUR 10,000 including vat and after allowing for the grant for Supply and install as below, though this is before any site survey (Lockdown)

    4.48 kwp system = 14 x 320w amerisolar panels. 20 Yr warranty
    Solis Hybrid inverter (pay 96 quid to extend warranty from 5 to 10 yrs). Unclear if I'd get 3 or 5k model)
    2.4 KWH pylon tech battery (offered free upgrade to 3.55 if I place order in x weeks etc). 10yr warranty
    Power diverted to water heating (we have a 300l twin coil cylinder)

    Questions are ( I think)
    whether I should go for more panels or different spec of panel or is
    and is there any point getting a battery if I've a PHEV which spends most of its time plugged in during the day?

    Thanks in advance!


  • #2367
    Deagol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Deagol


    Tuttlinghorn wrote: »
    Hi Folks,
    If anyone has the patience I'd appreciate any advice - not just to compare pricing but more to know what spec I should go for, so I can balance vs proposals I'll get from installers.

    Detached house with plenty of south facing roof space. 2 adults and 2 young teens. Mix of underfloor heating and radiators. Oil fired central heating. House very well insulated following big refurb couple of years back.

    Currently have a PHEV and expect to go full EV with next car. Low enough mileage on average.
    annual Electric consumption = 7,700 KWH

    Quoted EUR 10,000 including vat and after allowing for the grant for Supply and install as below, though this is before any site survey (Lockdown)

    4.48 kwp system = 14 x 320w amerisolar panels. 20 Yr warranty
    Solis Hybrid inverter (pay 96 quid to extend warranty from 5 to 10 yrs). Unclear if I'd get 3 or 5k model)
    2.4 KWH pylon tech battery (offered free upgrade to 3.55 if I place order in x weeks etc). 10yr warranty
    Power diverted to water heating (we have a 300l twin coil cylinder)

    Questions are ( I think)
    whether I should go for more panels or different spec of panel or is
    and is there any point getting a battery if I've a PHEV which spends most of its time plugged in during the day?

    Thanks in advance!

    Hi, that's a crazy quote - way overpriced. Wouldn't worry about the make of panels, they are mostly similar enough and they aren't a serious part of the expense.

    Go for as many panels (limited I think to 6.2kw) as you can, the panels are cheap in comparison to the labour to fit them so while they're up on the roof get as many as you can!

    Don't bother with paying for extra warranty for anything - it won't pay you as their will still probably be a charge for fitting etc. Extended warranties are never worth it in my opinion.

    DOn't have an electric car so can't comment that authoritively but for me, I would expect you need a higher rated battery - would have thought minimum 5kw. And I don't know if the current output matters with PHEV etc, but the pylontech's are limited output - I would check if it makes sense to spend a little extra and go with a 'better' battery. EDIT: Just realised I didn't address your question. I'd guess your PHEV battery is about 6kw? If so, that would take a couple of hours in the summer/ nice weather to charge even if it was fully empty. After that you'll be sending any surplus to hot water diverter(?) or the grid. If you have a battery system you keep it for later use. Financially it's probably not going to pay over the life of the system. But once we are all smart metered up, you could potentially be able to charge that battery for free (Bord Gais already doing a tarriff with free power on Saturdays).

    The hot water diverter, I have one and I like it but the argument is made now that for the price of them and with FIT coming, they don't make sense. For me, I have the same setup as you (300litre tank with twin coils) and I like not having to turn on the immersion heaters to heat water on demand. With the diverter I can see what temperature is in my tank (i have an eddi with optional relay board and a couple of RTD's in the tank) remotely. So far this year I haven't turned on the immersions because the boiler either has made enough and the solar has topped it during the day once the battery is charged. I don't think the pure financial argument is always the right one.


  • #2368
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,191 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Tuttlinghorn wrote: »
    Quoted EUR 10,000 including vat and after allowing for the grant for Supply and install as below, though this is before any site survey (Lockdown)

    F**k a duck... That's a scandalous price. Nearly double what it should be.

    My advice is price around, don't be afraid to be a pain in the hole coming back here every whop round asking advice again.

    Plenty will attest that I did just that. Had about 6 quotes as far as I recall but when I eventually settled on one most here agreed that it was extremely competitive.

    As for the system you need, fit in as many panels as you can. Don't worry about going any higher for the battery than 2.4kWh as it starts to lose the financial benefit at that stage.


  • #2369
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,257 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    10k for that after grant? That quote should be halved.

    You should be paying 5k max there. Absolute max.

    Who's giving these crazy quotes?


  • #2370
    Deagol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Deagol


    6 wrote: »
    10k for that after grant? That quote should be halved.

    You should be paying 5k max there. Absolute max.

    Who's giving these crazy quotes?

    The installers who are getting plenty of business from people who are clueless I would guess.


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  • #2371
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    I got a quote similar from a company when I was getting mine done. Told him my target price and the answer was "I wouldn't get the panels out of the shed for that money". He wanted 10k+ AFTER grant.
    Some rip off merchants knocking around, it is a pity SEAI don't lock the system down


This discussion has been closed.
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