Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

KCross

cubix wrote: »

;)Yeah had seen the previous C rating. The house was built in 2000 and would expect it to reach a C after PV install as boiler/ controls were upgraded along with with some wall & attic insulation but not sure if it would get a B

There is no B requirement at the moment. The consulation document talks about possibly increasing it to a B over time but that might not happen. Its a consulation document, not policy yet so object if you think B is not reasonable.

cubix

Can anyone give a ball figure of what is a reasonable price based on a 12 panel/4.2KW system, no battery or diverter, on the roof for a standard 2 storey house, just a standard use it or loose setup until the FIT comes in of course . I have priced up the same kit required in SC and comes to approx 3K+vat if I was to go the self install route. So looking what the difference would be if I went the contractor/grant route. Thanks

KCross

cubix wrote: »

Can anyone give a ball figure of what is a reasonable price based on a 12 panel/4.2KW system, no battery or diverter, on the roof for a standard 2 storey house, just a standard use it or loose setup until the FIT comes in of course . I have priced up the same kit required in SC and comes to approx 3K+vat if I was to go the self install route. So looking what the difference would be if I went the contractor/grant route. Thanks

€4500-€5000 after grant is what you should be aiming at via an SEAI registered installer.

raytaxi

I have a quote of 4200 for 7 panels, less grant its 2400 have ask how much for extra panels was thinking of 10 panels myself. Think with covid everything is stopped at the moment.

Bobeagleburger

Get a quote with and without battery. Sometimes the difference is tiny when you take into account the extra battery grant.

cubix

KCross wrote: »

€4500-€5000 after grant is what you should be aiming at via an SEAI registered installer.

Thanks, is that' plus or Inc vat

KCross

cubix wrote: »

Thanks, is that' plus or Inc vat

Thats all in... actual money out of your pocket.

cubix

👍

slave1

I ended up with a higher install in the end but from memory had a 4.1kWh with inverter, install all the cables/switches etc quote for €4,200 (net cost to me after grant)

stiofan85

I've been lurking on this forum for ages and think we're now getting serious about Solar PV after buying an EV & Zappi charger.

As we're in an A3 new build with a heat pump, no grant for us. We've a due south facing, steep roof, and could get quite a number of panels up there. Without the grant it's impossible to justify so would have to look at a direct labour approach and hire roofer & electrician separately. Has anyone done this? I ran all the wiring for the Zappi and a local electrician terminated it for me and signed it off, so I'd be comfortable running what I can in terms of the electrics and might be able to save a few quid there. Getting up on the roof is out of the question for me though.

any insight would be appreciated. How much did it cost? Difficulty finding a decent roofer? is it even advisable?

Alkers

stiofan85 wrote: »

I've been lurking on this forum for ages and think we're now getting serious about Solar PV after buying an EV & Zappi charger.

As we're in an A3 new build with a heat pump, no grant for us. We've a due south facing, steep roof, and could get quite a number of panels up there. Without the grant it's impossible to justify so would have to look at a direct labour approach and hire roofer & electrician separately. Has anyone done this? I ran all the wiring for the Zappi and a local electrician terminated it for me and signed it off, so I'd be comfortable running what I can in terms of the electrics and might be able to save a few quid there. Getting up on the roof is out of the question for me though.

any insight would be appreciated. How much did it cost? Difficulty finding a decent roofer? is it even advisable?

I tried this approach for a good while and could not get any traction at all, the roofer being more of a stumbling block than the electrician. I found it next to impossible to get a reputable roofer who didn't have extortionate prices (even with needing some other roofing work done also).

I found prices from electricians very high also but the roofer was such a non runner I didn't put as much effort into them.

Deagol

Alkers wrote: »

I tried this approach for a good while and could not get any traction at all, the roofer being more of a stumbling block than the electrician. I found it next to impossible to get a reputable roofer who didn't have extortionate prices (even with needing some other roofing work done also).

I found prices from electricians very high also but the roofer was such a non runner I didn't put as much effort into them.

I think you could do the roofing yourself if you could borrow a roof ladder - plenty videos on how to do it. But for me, the risk of causing serious damage to a roof just isn't worth it, I'd rather pay a pro.

I guess you could just pay for the hardware to be installed though? And then put up the panels yourself? Might save a little doing that? But again, is it worth it to have to go find ladders etc?

It does seem short sighted not to give the grant to people in newer houses. Surely running the heatpumps and ventilators from solar + battery would make sense?

stiofan85

Deagol wrote: »

I think you could do the roofing yourself if you could borrow a roof ladder - plenty videos on how to do it. But for me, the risk of causing serious damage to a roof just isn't worth it, I'd rather pay a pro.

I guess you could just pay for the hardware to be installed though? And then put up the panels yourself? Might save a little doing that? But again, is it worth it to have to go find ladders etc?

It does seem short sighted not to give the grant to people in newer houses. Surely running the heatpumps and ventilators from solar + battery would make sense?

I'd be up for the DIY, not sure the wife would be tbh. We've two young kids and live near the coast. It's quite windy here more often than it is calm, so the risk of me taking a spill would be enough to discourage her.

I think I can get the electrical costs right down if the Zappi is anything to go by. Roofer is the key question. I got a couple of PMs with phone numbers so will chase those up.

You're right though, the lack of grants for new builds is more than frustrating. Better still, you'd think Solar PV would be mandatory on new builds. It would add just a small amount to the price relatively speaking, but anyway...that's another conversation.

KCross

stiofan85 wrote: »

As we're in an A3 new build with a heat pump, no grant for us.

I'd approach an SEAI registered installer and ask for a quote ensuring that you impress on them that you have no access to the grant. That should give a more competitive quote (but you need to ask alot of them as there are loads of cowboy prices) to the point that it wont make much sense to go the direct labour route unless you are doing the work yourself.

stiofan85 wrote: »

Without the grant it's impossible to justify so would have to look at a direct labour approach and hire roofer & electrician separately.

Its one thing to get a roofer, its another thing entirely to get one that has done Solar PV. I struggled to find one and when I did he wouldnt do it as he was doing work for one of the registered installers and didnt want to go behind their backs!

I'd rather not be the guinea pig for a roofer to be learning how to install Solar PV for the first time on my roof (especially slate). Its not rocket science but it still has to be 100% and use the best materials, brackets, flashing etc. You cant afford any slip ups on the integrity of your roof.... hence why I'm saying go with an established outfit if you are not willing to go up there yourself.

It also means you have one companty to deal with if anything goes wrong from panels on the roof, electrical, inverter etc... there is alot to be said for that too.

garo

You do need somebody you can call on to fix things if the install is not 100% right. Even if its something small. As you said you can handle the electrics but the brackets, the flashing etc. need someone who can stand over their work.

slave1

I'd DIY install on a shed roof etc but not on a house

championc

I did a complete self install. It might have taken twice as long, but it was all checked and double checked. So in my opinion, the only problem I might likely encounter is a failed inverter - which could happen anyone. But I do have a warranty straight with the retaillers, for the panels too.

IMO, you only need a roofer to install the mounting rails. If panels were installed portrait, you need rails about a quarter of the length of the panel up from the bottom and down from the top of where they will be positioned. The cables are straight forward, and with panels having male and female MC4 connectors, it's impossible to not string them together.

A tiled roof is way simpler than a slate roof, I don't think I would have tackled a slate roof.

Caspero

Regarding the requirement for grid-tied solar PV systems to auto shut-off when the grid power is down, in this thread a while back if I understood correctly people mentioned that it would be possible to install a manual switch to move the solar system off its grid connection to power the house in the event of a power outage.

Would that only be feasible for a system with a battery?

I asked my installer about this and he thought that since the solar PV inverter itself requires AC power to function, such a switch couldn't be installed without a battery to supply that power to the inverter in the event of a grid outage.

So I guess another way of asking this is: can the inverter be powered from the DC coming in from the panels?

KCross

Caspero wrote: »

Regarding the requirement for grid-tied solar PV systems to auto shut-off when the grid power is down, in this thread a while back if I understood correctly people mentioned that it would be possible to install a manual switch to move the solar system off its grid connection to power the house in the event of a power outage.

Would that only be feasible for a system with a battery?

I asked my installer about this and he thought that since the solar PV inverter itself requires AC power to function, such a switch couldn't be installed without a battery to supply that power to the inverter in the event of a grid outage.

So I guess another way of asking this is: can the inverter be powered from the DC coming in from the panels?

Even if it were possible without a battery I dont think you want to be powering your house directly from the panels during a power cut.

Unless it was a cloudless July day you would run the risk of damaging your electronic devices with repeated "power cuts" as the clouds rolled over.

You would need a battery to keep a steady power source.

Alkers

Deagol wrote: »

I think you could do the roofing yourself if you could borrow a roof ladder - plenty videos on how to do it. But for me, the risk of causing serious damage to a roof just isn't worth it, I'd rather pay a pro.

I guess you could just pay for the hardware to be installed though? And then put up the panels yourself? Might save a little doing that? But again, is it worth it to have to go find ladders etc?

It does seem short sighted not to give the grant to people in newer houses. Surely running the heatpumps and ventilators from solar + battery would make sense?

The panels are quite large, it's an excercise in itself in getting them up onto the roof even with two people

DrPhilG

Just saw a lady on Facebook announce very proudly how pleased she was with her €600 a year saving on electricity.

All thanks to her top notch 5kwp solar PV system that after grants only cost her...

€12k!

There have to be some absolute cowboys out there but that's the worst I've seen.

Deagol

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just saw a lady on Facebook announce very proudly how pleased she was with her €600 a year saving on electricity.

All thanks to her top notch 5kwp solar PV system that after grants only cost her...

€12k!

There have to be some absolute cowboys out there but that's the worst I've seen.

That's sad - and this will limit the interest people take in solar. I've already had two friends say they have zero interest in solar because they've been told it has a ridiculous pay back - I couldn't get them to listen to any arguments countering it because they've seen and heard too many stories.

Caspero

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just saw a lady on Facebook announce very proudly how pleased she was with her €600 a year saving on electricity.

All thanks to her top notch 5kwp solar PV system that after grants only cost her...

€12k!

There have to be some absolute cowboys out there but that's the worst I've seen.

Prices of any kind of construction/home improvement jobs etc are going up I think. Very hard to even find people. Took us 4 months to get piers for a gate installed and the gate guys haven't even finished their work. A PV contractor we were trying to get to quote spent months messing around and then told us he didn't have time. About 12 others we contacted for a quote didn't even reply. Finally we found 1 good person to work with through this board but still...goes to show why prices are going up.

In terms of payback discussions with friends...tough to get people without financial training to understand this but payback isn't the theoretically correct way to look at the maths of any project because it doesn't adequately take into account opportunity cost and time value of money. You need to do an IRR or NPV calculation. Her 5% return on asset (600/12000) might even be OK (i.e. pass the go/no go test by having a positive IRR) despite the high install cost if she financed a good chunk of the purchase price with low-cost debt...e.g. by doing a mortgage topup at today's sub-3% rates. Obviously that introduces risk which has to be taken into consideration but still...it's the correct way to think about it.

slave1

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just saw a lady on Facebook announce very proudly how pleased she was with her €600 a year saving on electricity.

All thanks to her top notch 5kwp solar PV system that after grants only cost her...

€12k!

There have to be some absolute cowboys out there but that's the worst I've seen.

Deagol wrote: »

That's sad - and this will limit the interest people take in solar. I've already had two friends say they have zero interest in solar because they've been told it has a ridiculous pay back - I couldn't get them to listen to any arguments countering it because they've seen and heard too many stories.

Touched base with a mate I hadn't chatted to properly since I got my PV install in Nov, he told me I was "mad throwing €15k away like that", "only works in Spain" etc comments.
Huge information gap out there

slave1

Caspero wrote: »

In terms of payback discussions with friends...tough to get people without financial training to understand this but payback isn't the theoretically correct way to look at the maths of any project because it doesn't adequately take into account opportunity cost and time value of money. You need to do an IRR or NPV calculation. Her 5% return on asset (600/12000) might even be OK (i.e. pass the go/no go test by having a positive IRR) despite the high install cost if she financed a good chunk of the purchase price with low-cost debt...e.g. by doing a mortgage topup at today's sub-3% rates. Obviously that introduces risk which has to be taken into consideration but still...it's the correct way to think about it.

IRR is a hugely incorrect concept due to the incorrect maths that any positive cash flows are reinvested in the same project which creates a circular reference error. IRR also fails with variable positive cash flows, in this case variable electricity savings over time as rates/generation etc constantly change.
Folk in work think it's a percentage return on the project, it is not.

NPV is also incorrect because you have to take a line in the sand for project completion e.g. 5 years, 10 years when in reality the panels will be creating savings well past the 20/25 year mark.

Keep it simple folks, Payback is your only man

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

That's sad - and this will limit the interest people take in solar. I've already had two friends say they have zero interest in solar because they've been told it has a ridiculous pay back - I couldn't get them to listen to any arguments countering it because they've seen and heard too many stories.

If people are paying 12k for a 5kwp system, the payback would be v long.

600 euro on a 5kwp, would be a generous number.. Edge case would be if they had an old meter and it went backwards.. and put nothing into the batteries.

Poked about JRC and with optimal slope and angle, theres a 1000kwh difference between the sunny south east and the nw of ireland on a 5kwp system.

slave1 wrote: »

Keep it simple folks, Payback is your only man

yeah, cos what you said above that, went whoosh over my head!

DrPhilG

Caspero wrote: »

Prices of any kind of construction/home improvement jobs etc are going up I think.

The lady who spent €12k on a 5kwp system did so a few months before I spent €7.5k on a 6kwp one.

Same battery amount and same water diverter.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

The lady who spent €12k on a 5kwp system did so a few months before I spent €7.5k on a 6kwp one.

Same battery amount and same water diverter.

Thats a nice extra €5k profit for that installer. Good money if you can get it.

There are no end of uninformed people in the world.... or as the saying goes... more money than sense!

championc

To be honest, there were a few on here who weren't far off paying similar amounts until they consulted more informed folk on here.

MAULBROOK

Should we not up date this thread to 2021 Quotes? keep it fresh and so on