Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

16 family members given vaccine

Options
1…3840424344

Comments

  • Options
    #1172
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    I think people need to calm down about this and also question whether we really need the hse to waste time drawing up back up lists for tiny numbers of doses. Let's trust our vaccinators and management to use up the left over doses. I was vaccinated yesterday. After nearly 200 ppl there were 3 doses left over. Staff from 2 local medical practice got the 3 of them.
    We don't need media outrage and more micro management when we need the hse focused on the bigger picture.


  • Options
    #1173
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,251 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    plodder wrote: »
    Well I think the idea that hospitals wouldn't have the same flexibility as GP surgeries sounds daft and not credible, for the sake of re-organising a few refrigerators.

    As regards the dregs after 6 doses are extracted, then they should be binned unless there is enough remaining for a seventh dose. It's what Pfizer has said ... unless they have qualified that advice since..

    I could use harsher words but you have a complete miss understanding of medical logistics.

    You want to clear out a pharmaceutical fridge which contains thousands of euro worth of drugs some that are controlled substances and redistribute them among other storage fridge's.

    All this would need to be logged and manifests for each fridge updated. For what two unopened vials. You would still have to use up the extra doses on third open vial. That is idiotic.

    As regards the 6/7 dose senario. The vials are 40% overfill. Now if reconstitution is done superbly there is 7 doses in theory. In practice there is probably a strong 6.5 doses.

    You have three methods of achieving extra doses neither is drawing dregs. Take six doses out of one vial and draw a half a dose out of a new vial and complete the dose out of the old vial. This gives you 6.5 doses per vial.

    The second every time a pair of vials is finished you draw a full dose from the two and discard. Third method is to check every vial to see if there is a full dose remaining and use that dose if there is.

    The first two are outside Phizer's guidelines. They give you a static number of doses per vial accross a batch. You could also finish a vial and draw any remaining product and complete the dose from a new vial. This might give you very near to 7 doses per vial but it would vary with the skill of the vacinator

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Options
    #1174
    wheresthebeef
    Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭wheresthebeef


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    I could use harsher words but you have a complete miss understanding of medical logistics.

    You want to clear out a pharmaceutical fridge which contains thousands of euro worth of drugs some that are controlled substances and redistribute them among other storage fridge's.

    All this would need to be logged and manifests for each fridge updated. For what two unopened vials. You would still have to use up the extra doses on third open vial. That is idiotic.

    As regards the 6/7 dose senario. The vials are 40% overfill. Now if reconstitution is done superbly there is 7 doses in theory. In practice there is probably a strong 6.5 doses.

    You have three methods of achieving extra doses neither is drawing dregs. Take six doses out of one vial and draw a half a dose out of a new vial and complete the dose out of the old vial. This gives you 6.5 doses per vial.

    The second every time a pair of vials is finished you draw a full dose from the two and discard. Third method is to check every vial to see if there is a full dose remaining and use that dose if there is

    You aren't allowed to draw an extra dose between two vials, if there is a 7th dose it has come from a single vial that 6 other doses have already come out of. They are very strict about this.

    Every vial contains a minimum of 6. If you use a low dead volume syringe with a luer lock connector combined with impeccable technique you can often obtain a 7th dose but it's not guaranteed. We had 23 vials for our clinic and we got a 7th dose out of 6 of the 23. The other 17 vials did have some liquid left in them after use, but not enough to make up 0.3ml and so those vials had to be discarded with whatever leftovers were in them.


  • Options
    #1175
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭plodder


    From attached FDA doc:
    If the amount of vaccine remaining in the vial cannot provide a full dose of 0.3 mL, discard the vial and any excess volume.
    Couldn't be clearer.


  • Options
    #1176
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,251 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    wheresthebeef wrote: »
    You aren't allowed to draw an extra dose between two vials, if there is a 7th dose it has come from a single vial that 6 other doses have already come out of. They are very strict about this.

    Every vial contains a minimum of 6. If you use a low dead volume syringe with a luer lock connector combined with impeccable technique you can often obtain a 7th dose but it's not guaranteed. We had 23 vials for our clinic and we got a 7th dose out of 6 of the 23. The other 17 vials did have some liquid left in them after use, but not enough to make up 0.3ml and so those vials had to be discarded with whatever leftovers were in them.

    So you averaged about 6.25 doses per vial accross a 23 vial batch which is a hundred odd doses. Did the extra doses happen more at the end of the vaccination clinic as the skillset of the vacinator improved. Was it a first time product use for the nurse/doctor carrying out the vacination program

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1177
    wheresthebeef
    Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭wheresthebeef


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    So you averaged about 6.25 doses per vial accross a 23 vial batch which is a hundred odd doses. Did the extra doses happen more at the end of the vaccination clinic as the skillset of the vacinator improved. Was it a first time product use for the nurse/doctor carrying out the vacination program

    Unfortunately I can’t tell exactly when the doses arose during the day. They just took as many as they could get as they went along. We only started counting carefully as we were getting to the end so we’d know how many people to call in from the reserve list.


  • Options
    #1178
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,582 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Something similar happened in Houston Texas. Doctor with 10 doses of vaccine left drove round vaccinating strangers with health conditions, and with minutes until the vaccine would become useless and the final intended recipient not able to make it in time, he gave it to his wife. The doctor was fired and charged with theft of the vaccine, which was since thrown out of court:


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/doctor-who-gave-nearly-expired-vaccine-to-his-wife-fired-and-charged-with-theft-1.4482292


  • Options
    #1179
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,730 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    osarusan wrote: »
    Something similar happened in Houston Texas. Doctor with 10 doses of vaccine left drove round vaccinating strangers with health conditions, and with minutes until the vaccine would become useless and the final intended recipient not able to make it in time, he gave it to his wife. The doctor was fired and charged with theft, which was thrown out of court:


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/doctor-who-gave-nearly-expired-vaccine-to-his-wife-fired-and-charged-with-theft-1.4482292
    A bed-bound nonagenarian. A woman in her 80s with dementia. A mother with a child who uses a ventilator.

    Chaps a ****ing legend


  • Options
    #1180
    Morries Wigs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 199 ✭✭Morries Wigs


    PO!NT wrote: »
    Tip of the sword stuff imo.

    I have 0 proof but I dont believe this is an isolated event.

    i know someone who got it as they know a doctor -ireland is a very corrupt country it has never changed from its who you know politics


  • Options
    #1181
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭circadian


    lucernarian wrote: »
    This is faulty logic. May as well bring Brexit up and the fact that they're a monarchy in why we shouldn't follow practices from the UK.




    Neither of those things would be particularly good for the country either in fairness.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1182
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,274 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    osarusan wrote: »
    and with minutes until the vaccine would become useless and the final intended recipient not able to make it in time, he gave it to his wife.

    And his wife has serious respiratory problems so should have been prioritised anyway.
    Fcukin' crazy.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #1183
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    votecounts wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0118/1190394-coombe-virus/


    People like myself waiting patiently for my parents to get the vaccine and low risk people get it simply because they have a family member in the know. If they were going to run out why did they order so many or give them to more deserving cases. Sackable offence for Donnolly and the staff members involved.
    No wonder the rollout will takes ages:(

    Reminds me of the auld jobs for the lads craic. Hardly surprising unfortunately.


  • Options
    #1184
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Nothing to see here. Master is a great guy. How dare you question his actions? Outrage for outrages sake? He had no other option. Would you prefer if it went into the bin? Bla, bla, bla......

    "Coombe master did not vaccinate students on standby, inquiry hears".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coombe-master-did-not-vaccinate-students-on-standby-inquiry-hears-1.4497566


  • Options
    #1185
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Nothing to see here. Master is a great guy. How dare you question his actions? Outrage for outrages sake? He had no other option. Would you prefer if it went into the bin? Bla, bla, bla......

    "Coombe master did not vaccinate students on standby, inquiry hears".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coombe-master-did-not-vaccinate-students-on-standby-inquiry-hears-1.4497566
    Two months on there is nothing to see, but they need to tick boxes on the process or lack thereof. At most he'll get a sharp rebuke for something he's already had to apologise for.


  • Options
    #1186
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,266 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Who could possibly have predicted that...


  • Options
    #1187
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,266 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Two months on there is nothing to see

    Of course, nothing to see here.

    Except that people got lambasted in this thread for daring to suggest that perhaps not everything was above aboard in this case, for daring to suggest that our front line hero was anything but honest in all of his dealings.


  • Options
    #1188
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Of course, nothing to see here.

    Except that people got lambasted in this thread for daring to suggest that perhaps not everything was above aboard in this case, for daring to suggest that our front line hero was anything but honest in all of his dealings.
    Oh, I don't think it was above board at all but this is really a box ticking exercise in transparency and a further opportunity for some public embarrassment of the man who caused the hospital embarrassment. Now that we have a system in place it will never happen again.


  • Options
    #1189
    phill106
    Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭phill106


    rather see it in someones arm then in the bin.
    they should have had a backup list though.


  • Options
    #1190
    ypres5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    phill106 wrote: »
    rather see it in someones arm then in the bin.
    they should have had a backup list though.

    they did have a backup list but the good doctor felt it was more important that he vaccinate his kids than the students working in the hospital for free.


  • Options
    #1191
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Of course, nothing to see here.

    Except that people got lambasted in this thread for daring to suggest that perhaps not everything was above aboard in this case, for daring to suggest that our front line hero was anything but honest in all of his dealings.
    Nobody in this thread said that there were students waiting on standby.

    They suggested that doctors should be rushed in halfway across the country to get it or that they should have been going around to Garda and Fire stations to offer it out.

    On the information provided at the time, the indication was that all avenues had been exhausted to find suitable recipients (by the HSE and the hospital), and that ultimately the 16 selected were of sufficiently high priority.

    Kind of incredible that there were 40 people actually working on the front line and ready and waiting that were completely skipped over.

    I'd love to hear what the explanation is here. I accept that they may not have put them in the queue earlier in the day, but surely when there were 100-odd doses to be distributed, these 40 students should have been top of the list.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1192
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,464 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Oh, I don't think it was above board at all but this is really a box ticking exercise in transparency and a further opportunity for some public embarrassment of the man who caused the hospital embarrassment. Now that we have a system in place it will never happen again.

    With people like that in positions of responsibility there will be more mistakes, maybe not the same mistake, but different avenues for them to abuse their power.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #1193
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,464 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    seamus wrote: »
    Nobody in this thread said that there were students waiting on standby.

    They suggested that doctors should be rushed in halfway across the country to get it or that they should have been going around to Garda and Fire stations to offer it out.

    On the information provided at the time, the indication was that all avenues had been exhausted to find suitable recipients (by the HSE and the hospital), and that ultimately the 16 selected were of sufficiently high priority.

    Kind of incredible that there were 40 people actually working on the front line and ready and waiting that were completely skipped over.

    I'd love to hear what the explanation is here. I accept that they may not have put them in the queue earlier in the day, but surely when there were 100-odd doses to be distributed, these 40 students should have been top of the list.

    I think we were all a bit surprised the backup list was so short.
    But then, if you want to abuse your power and engage in a bit of nepotism, that's what you would do.
    So now we know why the backup list was so inadequate, when higher priority staff were overlooked.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #1194
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    seamus wrote: »
    Nobody in this thread said that there were students waiting on standby.

    They suggested that doctors should be rushed in halfway across the country to get it or that they should have been going around to Garda and Fire stations to offer it out.

    On the information provided at the time, the indication was that all avenues had been exhausted to find suitable recipients (by the HSE and the hospital), and that ultimately the 16 selected were of sufficiently high priority.

    Kind of incredible that there were 40 people actually working on the front line and ready and waiting that were completely skipped over.

    I'd love to hear what the explanation is here. I accept that they may not have put them in the queue earlier in the day, but surely when there were 100-odd doses to be distributed, these 40 students should have been top of the list.

    No, but plenty of people pointed out that the likelihood of more suitable, contactable groups being available, would have been be very high. A basic understanding of hospital environments and common logic would suggest as much.


  • Options
    #1195
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    With people like that in positions of responsibility there will be more mistakes, maybe not the same mistake, but different avenues for them to abuse their power.
    It's always about proper systems and processes to protect everyone.


  • Options
    #1196
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,310 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Wombatman wrote: »
    No, but plenty of people pointed out that the likelihood of more suitable, contactable groups being available, would have been be very high. A basic understanding of hospital environments and common logic would suggest as much.
    Ah, but we didn't provide names and grades of those who may have been passed over for vaccines - therefore, Gotcha! :rolleyes:

    Unbelievable how posters will try to deflect. Well maybe not unbelievable if they have benefitted from nepotism themselves.

    The likes of steadyeddy (who says he worked for the HSE) was spot on. The HSE is an organisation with a long standing culture of bad management and nepotism dating back to the health board era. If the only sanction is embarrassment if an individual responsible is caught while the upside is vaccines, homecare packages, contracts and jobs for relatives and friends - well we can see the issue here.


  • Options
    #1197
    Miike
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Nothing to see here. Master is a great guy. How dare you question his actions? Outrage for outrages sake? He had no other option. Would you prefer if it went into the bin? Bla, bla, bla......

    "Coombe master did not vaccinate students on standby, inquiry hears".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coombe-master-did-not-vaccinate-students-on-standby-inquiry-hears-1.4497566

    I wish there was a way to like this comment a thousand times.


  • Options
    #1198
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Surely he has to resign now?


  • Options
    #1199
    BettyS
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭BettyS


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    Surely he has to resign now?

    Even during phase 5, the medical students within the vicinity of the hospital. The clinical years need face-to-face teaching for the accreditation of their degree. So, the medical students not being available at short notice doesn’t wash.

    There were 231 people who liked the post about “would they rather the vaccine in the toilet”. I wonder how they respond to Deirdre Murphy’s account.


  • Options
    #1200
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    seamus wrote: »
    Nobody in this thread said that there were students waiting on standby.

    BS Seamus. Multiple people, including myself and others pointed out both from personal experience and plain logic that every hospital and medical scheme has a standby list. Under no circumstances does a hospital which deals with life and death rush into a vaccination scheme in a pandemic to not knowing who comes next in case of no shows or extra vaccines.

    This was nepotism, pure and simple. You, along with others were defending that nepotism.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1201
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,144 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    So the story of the vaccines being disposed is a myth.

    He chose to vaccinate his own children first.


Advertisement