Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

23-02-2021 01:22PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Hmm.. I wonder why people think that??

Very little of that out of you too.. and those are just the posts you made after your “sneering” one.

That was almost too easy :pac:

I think I maybe should address this.

This:

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, right. Spoofer

was in response to:

Until it is confirmed we can't say for sure, but what we can see, is that 2020 will most like not record any excess deaths, probably 2,000 below normal.

which is based on nothing and was response to factual data.

This:

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you guys even question this alternative universe you have created for yourselves

was in response to:

They were obviously bailed out by the government and used as an other arm of the propaganda machine to reach the younger demographic they cannot reach via RTE.

which is pure CT nonsense

This:

Deleted User wrote: »

Fantasy stuff. Keep it going

was in response to

You were the one caught exaggerating excess deaths

which never happened except in fantasy

This:

Deleted User wrote: »

Google translate returns language not detected

was possibly uncalled for. Mea culpa

Kiith · 23-02-2021 01:22PM

So hang on, the Government are saying they can't remove the 5km restriction because it's tied to the rent/eviction freeze in some way? Hopefully i'm misunderstanding that, as it makes no sense.

First of all, if that's true, they are ****ing idiots. Talk about incompetence.
Secondly, even if it is true, just change the rule to have them be completely separate.

They've quickly passed other laws to enforce the restriction, mandate masks, shut down businesses etc...so why not do it to remove the restriction?

Penfailed · 23-02-2021 01:23PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Johnson has an out in that he says that the reopening is based on a number of targets. Sturgeon has been playing this more cautiously throughout and seemingly has the support of her electorate for doing so. Her approval ratings are way above Johnson. I will be watching the whole thing with great interest.

On the point of targets, Johnson doesn't even say what the targets are. He's as bad as our lot in that regard.

Sturgeon is supposed to be announcing Scotland's plan later. Sources say that it will be broadly comparable with England except they will retain the Tiered approach.

timmyntc · 23-02-2021 01:28PM

Boggles wrote: »

And that's why you or rogue hair dressers don't give public health advice during a pandemic.

Very good contribution, you really refuted my argument.

The point was about potential demand for hairdressers, not public health advice?

Sierra Oscar · 23-02-2021 01:30PM

Kiith wrote: »

So hang on, the Government are saying they can't remove the 5km restriction because it's tied to the rent/eviction freeze in some way? Hopefully i'm misunderstanding that, as it makes no sense.
First of all, if that's true, they are ****ing idiots. Talk about incompetence.

Secondly, even if it is true, just change the rule to have them be completely separate.

They've quickly passed other laws to enforce the restriction, mandate masks, shut down businesses etc...so why not do it to remove the restriction?

This all reeks of the Government wanting the restrictions to suppress the virus, but throwing out an emotive excuse to keep the restrictions as a means to shut down discussion.

Suddenly if you're against the 5km rule you're putting people at risk of eviction.

Absolutely patronising tripe considering we know the Government could easily change whatever legislation needs amending with the support of the opposition.

KrustyUCC · 23-02-2021 01:32PM

Kiith wrote: »

So hang on, the Government are saying they can't remove the 5km restriction because it's tied to the rent/eviction freeze in some way? Hopefully i'm misunderstanding that, as it makes no sense.
First of all, if that's true, they are ****ing idiots. Talk about incompetence.

Secondly, even if it is true, just change the rule to have them be completely separate.

They've quickly passed other laws to enforce the restriction, mandate masks, shut down businesses etc...so why not do it to remove the restriction?

Genius from the government as it suits them to keep the 5km anyway

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362142113513631746

dalyboy · 23-02-2021 01:35PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

While I don’t agree with RTÉ or the media’s agenda in general, I have no problem with Claire Byrne or other presenters in the overall job they do. They’re just pushing the narrative they’ve been told to push.

2020. The year investigation journalism was laid to rest. RIP

Arise Joseph Goebbels.

Windmill100000 · 23-02-2021 01:36PM

[/U]

Silentcorner wrote: »

A myopic fantasy is that covid would have killed 120,000 of us, or that there would be mass graves and freezer trucks full of bodies...I feel sorry for the people who initially bought into this, they're bound to be feeling embarrassed at this stage, those with self awareness anyway!

I personally didn't "buy into" anything. I hoped that we would not see 120,000 deaths though and am very glad it didnt happen. At the start no one knew what we were dealing with as China wasnt exactly
being clear and transparent. Not sure why you need to feel sorry for anyone. We all know what the current death count is and we all know what has helped keep that down.

I dont know anyone that feels embarrassed either. I'd say it's more relief. Unless of course they lost a family member/friend.

Boggles · 23-02-2021 01:36PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Very good contribution, you really refuted my argument.

The point was about potential demand for hairdressers, not public health advice?

Your argument is the economy can run as normal during this pandemic.

It can't.

Ask yourself this and try be nuanced, what would you think would have happened if the Government on the 1st Jan, said right, all business open, all schools back, all functions of society to return in full.

Now ask yourself it they did the same thing today. No more business closures, no more restrictions, no more financial aid for anyone.

The hair dresser in Ballbriggan pressured them into submission.

I'm going to go for fúcking carnage for 200 Bob.

Again, it's why we don't formulate a plan based on a hair dresser looking for publicity.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 23-02-2021 01:37PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Genius from the government as it suits them to keep the 5km anyway

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362142113513631746

That moment you find out the "tinfoil hat" wearers were right all along.

OwenM · 23-02-2021 01:39PM

pm1977x wrote: »

I wouldn't ask any constitutional questions in this thread, yesterday we were told in no uncertain terms that a passport is a constitutional right and plenty of sheep were going along with it until it was exposed as a bare-faced lie. Don't think they even had the good grace to apologise or admit their error, just kept digging.

The right to travel is in the constitution, while the right to 'a passport' is not called out if it is a necessity then a challenge has merit?

23-02-2021 01:40PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

You made a claim that people were living in an alternate reality.

You also made a claim that we had suffered great numbers of excess death.

Which is an alternate reality.

You were shown to be completely incorrect, you tried to wiggle out of it using a "Fact check" from The Journal, an outlet produced by emotional young one's who get paid peanuts...unfortunately, they sucked you in with their rubbish claims despite the amount of blatant misrepresentations riddled all over the article.

And you claim it is us who are dispensing with patent nonsense....

Nobody can refute that yet because the figures are not yet completed, but up until Oct, we were behind where we were in 2019, we have low numbers for Nov and Dec also, this has been explained to you with links.

The term “registered deaths” is crucial here.

In a note accompanying the figures, the CSO explains that those deaths were registered with the General Registrar’s Office (GRO) before being notified to the statistics body.

Deaths from injuries caused by things like poisoning, road traffic accidents and suicide “will be under represented”, the CSO said, because they are likely to have been referred to a coroner for further investigation.

“This can result in the registration of these types of deaths being delayed,” the CSO states.

It adds later: “Legally, in Ireland, a death can be registered up to three months after the date of occurrence and therefore not all deaths that took place between 1 January 2020 and 31 October 2020 are included in this.”

.

How can you not be aware that there is a significant reporting lag for deaths in Ireland? Whatever your views on the Journal are the above is factually accurate. The final figures for 2020 wont be available for some time yet. The 2019 figures were only published on 29th May 2020. Its the end of may every year in fact.

And there are also over 1000k excess deaths notices on RIP.ie YTD. The CSO use this as a proxy until final death reports are complete.

timmyntc · 23-02-2021 01:43PM

Boggles wrote: »

Your argument is the economy can run as normal during this pandemic.

It can't.

Ask yourself this and try be nuanced, what would you think would have happened if the Government on the 1st Jan, said right, all business open, all schools back, all functions of society to return in full.

Now ask yourself it they did the same thing today. No more business closures, no more restrictions, no more financial aid for anyone.

The hair dresser in Ballbriggan pressured them into submission.

I'm going to go for fúcking carnage for 200 Bob.

Again, it's why we don't formulate a plan based on a hair dresser looking for publicity.

Now you're trying to totally misrepresent my argument.

You said hairdressers would be insolvent without govt aid, and that the demand is not there for their business.

I pointed out that when they opened previously (with all the social distancing/masks and adherence to covid safety etc) the demand was huge, and it remained huge until the govt closed them down.

The demand is there, if anything bigger than ever due to the total lack of supply. So the idea that reopening and no longer having govt financial aid would put salons out of business is absurd.

There are no calls for a wild west free market everything open type scenario - again that is you trying to misrepresent my argument.

Boggles · 23-02-2021 01:46PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Now you're trying to totally misrepresent my argument.

You said hairdressers would be insolvent without govt aid, and that the demand is not there for their business.

No I didn't.

I asked you some very specific questions which you have decided not to answer.

I'd appreciate if you did.

Polar101 · 23-02-2021 01:47PM

Kiith wrote: »

So hang on, the Government are saying they can't remove the 5km restriction because it's tied to the rent/eviction freeze in some way? Hopefully i'm misunderstanding that, as it makes no sense.

Not quite. If the 5km restriction is removed, that will mean moving away from level 5 restrictions. And the eviction ban which is currently in effect (but apparently will expire Thursday week), is tied to Ireland being at level 5. So if the restrictions are eased, it will also mean the eviction ban is no longer in effect.

But I don't think anyone is saying "we can't remove the 5km restrictions, because of evictions".

Since the evictions ban will expire, they'll need to change/extend the relevant legistlation anyway.

There was a similar situation last summer when the restrictions were lifted, 360 people were evicted once the ban lifted.

OwenM · 23-02-2021 01:48PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

A myopic fantasy is that covid would have killed 120,000 of us, or that there would be mass graves and freezer trucks full of bodies...I feel sorry for the people who initially bought into this, they're bound to be feeling embarrassed at this stage, those with self awareness anyway!

Don't forget the Oracles have form going back years.

McConkey predicted 1000 deaths: "Imagine 4 x 737's crashing into Dublin airport" from swine flu in 2009.

27 died.

aido79 · 23-02-2021 01:49PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

If this is true, she's the dumbest person walking the planet by advertising it.

Nice way to get a picture of your salon in the paper though.

Not as dumb as taking legal advice from Ben Gilroy. She's using his Freeman nonsense as the main basis for allowing her to reopen. That's asking for trouble.

timmyntc · 23-02-2021 01:53PM

Boggles wrote: »

No I didn't.

I asked you some very specific questions which you have decided not to answer.

I'd appreciate if you did.

You're trying to tell me what my own argument is - misrepresenting it in the process. In your last post you said:

Boggles wrote:

Your argument is the economy can run as normal during this pandemic.

I never said that - I have made it very clear that this whole series of posts came about because you said that hairdressers et al would be stupid to open, because they would go bust without the govts financial aid.

Which is false - because as I have said time and time again, the demand is there for these businesses. Their only impediment to making a profit is that they cannot open at all - because of the govt.

They had opened safely in the past and had massive demand then, there is no reason to think that demand would be any less if they opened today.

As for your other "very specific questions":

Boggles wrote:

Ask yourself this and try be nuanced, what would you think would have happened if the Government on the 1st Jan, said right, all business open, all schools back, all functions of society to return in full.

"We have gone from reality to fantasy in one post." - Boggles

Silentcorner · 23-02-2021 01:57PM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

[/U]

I personally didn't "buy into" anything. I hoped that we would not see 120,000 deaths though and am very glad it didnt happen. At the start no one knew what we were dealing with as China wasnt exactly
being clear and transparent. Not sure why you need to feel sorry for anyone. We all know what the current death count is and we all know what has helped keep that down.

I dont know anyone that feels embarrassed either. I'd say it's more relief. Unless of course they lost a family member/friend.

Wait until the check comes in the shape of the economic carnage, social damage and a health system that is going to have to handle a myriad of non covid related health problems the last year has invoked.

The man who predicted 120,000 deaths is still getting airtime, no doubt spreading the hysteria unabated or unquestioned...and there are a lot more like him, we were never going to see that amount of death...only an idiot thinks we would have.

You can't see that coming because the media aren't touching it, but it is coming, we will probably tip 30% unemployment this year.

Boggles · 23-02-2021 01:59PM

timmyntc wrote: »

They had opened safely in the past and had massive demand then

Yes, when incidence rates of the virus were small. This is where the nuance is in deficit.

So what I'm asking you to do is go back to last month or forward to next month if there is mass civil disobedience when incidence rates, hospitalizations and mortality isn't small, do you think they will be safe and the same demand will be there?

Windmill100000 · 23-02-2021 02:04PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Wait until the check comes in the shape of the economic carnage, social damage and a health system that is going to have to handle a myriad of non covid related health problems the last year has invoked.

The man who predicted 120,000 deaths is still getting airtime, no doubt spreading the hysteria unabated or unquestioned...and there are a lot more like him, we were never going to see that amount of death...only an idiot thinks we would have.

You can't see that coming because the media aren't touching it, but it is coming, we will probably tip 30% unemployment this year.

Yes, yes, we have been told umpteen times there will be a payback. And yet, for many, abiding by restrictions is still a priority for them.

Re unemployment figures, I will wait and see the figures on that fter we open up again before I agree with a poster on boards outraged that more people don't appreciate his view.

timmyntc · 23-02-2021 02:08PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, when incidence rates of the virus were small. This is where the nuance is in deficit.

So what I'm asking you to do is go back to last month or forward to next month if there is mass civil disobedience when incidence rates, hospitalizations and mortality isn't small, do you think they will be safe and the same demand will be there?

Yes - incidence rates are still high now and the salons that do open are full, and plenty more are getting black-market haircuts.

Before salons were shut again before christmas, incidence rates were high too.

Again back in sept/oct. The demand rarely waned.

Silentcorner · 23-02-2021 02:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

.

How can you not be aware that there is a significant reporting lag for deaths in Ireland? Whatever your views on the Journal are the above is factually accurate. The final figures for 2020 wont be available for some time yet. The 2019 figures were only published on 29th May 2020. Its the end of may every year in fact.

And there are also over 1000k excess deaths notices on RIP.ie YTD. The CSO use this as a proxy until final death reports are complete.

Can you let this go....you are making an idiot out of yourself.

You made the claim there was huge excess deaths.

You couldn't back it up.

You posted an article in the journal that was littered in misrepresentations, I only pointed out one, there were many others.

The data we do have access to is not showing a year of excess death...we had one month of excess deaths, that was April, where there was 1,000 excess deaths over April 2019....why would it show excess deaths for one month and no other month?

We won't know until the figures are official...but given that we didn't have a flu season this year that normally takes lives in wintertime, it is a safe assumption that we will not record excess deaths...we know the Covid deaths were predominantly in the demographic that is vulnerable to a number of ailments as they are every year.

You do realize, you are enforcing Fintans point, that you ridiculed, he said,

"Those mostly in favour of restrictions, need death to support their argument"

You are leading that charge, you need death to support your argument...there is something very sad about that!

CalamariFritti · 23-02-2021 02:10PM

So what time is the sentence going to be handed down, erm, sorry I mean the living-with-covid plan being presented?

muddypuppy · 23-02-2021 02:15PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Genius from the government as it suits them to keep the 5km anyway

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362142113513631746

What I don't understand is what's stopping the government from changing it from being tied to 5km to being tied to 10km or any form of freedom of movement restriction. They're the one writing the laws, and if it's OK to tie it to 5km I don't see what the difference would be...

showpony1 · 23-02-2021 02:15PM

if you aren't "old and vulnerable", a school child or a parent trying to get rid of a school child from the house this "living with covid" plan won't be for you.

CruelSummer · 23-02-2021 02:16PM

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9290029/Britains-coronavirus-lockdown-one-toughest-WORLD-study-claims.html

Is Ireland the strictest lockdown in the Western World?! The people calling the shots here re our response have completely lost it.

KrustyUCC · 23-02-2021 02:19PM

muddypuppy wrote: »

What I don't understand is what's stopping the government from changing it from being tied to 5km to being tied to 10km or any form of freedom of movement restriction. They're the one writing the laws, and if it's OK to tie it to 5km I don't see what the difference would be...

There's nothing stopping them changing the 5km limit only they want to keep it in place

This red herring with evictions is only an excuse to keep the 5km limit in place

Pitch n Putt · 23-02-2021 02:20PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So what time is the sentence going to be handed down, erm, sorry I mean the living-with-covid plan being presented?

Probably around 4pm while most people are still at work except the people they’ve prevented from working.

It the stuttering and blank stares at the press conference afterwards I’m looking forward to.

As usual there will be no answers to any tricky questions and mehole will be mmmming & aaaaaing to beat the band.

We’re being advised & Nphet recommend will be the fall back to cover all unanswerable questions.

Schools are safe another gem along with it’s the movement of people that’s the concern.

Same old sh1t with no forward thinking.

OwenM · 23-02-2021 02:22PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9290029/Britains-coronavirus-lockdown-one-toughest-WORLD-study-claims.html

Is Ireland the strictest lockdown in the Western World?! The people calling the shots here re our response have completely lost it.

Yes we do: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=2020-01-22..latest&country=AUT~BEL~FRA~DEU~IND~IRL~ITA~NLD~USA~GBR&region=World

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings