Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

El_Duderino 09 · 02-02-2021 08:56AM

vectra wrote: »

Why not Aston Martin for 2nd?

Because we’re not expecting huge changes to the cars this year. They will have to develop the changes for the 10% downforce reduction and there’s no reason to think AM will out-develop mclaren, Alpine and red bull.

Why do you think they will be contenders for second?

recyclebin · 02-02-2021 11:31AM

There could be some clever designs on the cars this year that could change up the order. Whoever can regain that lost down force the most will be in a strong position. Red Bull could have the most to lose if last year's car was so difficult to drive, imagine what it could be like this year.

Most teams have the tokens to work on that area of car except for McLaren but they may have designed something clever that's linked into their engine change to make up for it.

vectra · 02-02-2021 12:00PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Because we’re not expecting huge changes to the cars this year. They will have to develop the changes for the 10% downforce reduction and there’s no reason to think AM will out-develop mclaren, Alpine and red bull.

Why do you think they will be contenders for second?

No major changes is correct, but last years RP wasn't a bad car, This year they are using Mercs rear setup which will/should improve it further.
Also
As for out-developing McLaren, they would have beat them to 3rd last year only for the points deduction.
I also feel Vettel will be re invigorated in the new team, especially in a car that should suit his style. ( Hoping anyway )

El_Duderino 09 · 02-02-2021 12:09PM

vectra wrote: »

No major changes is correct, but last years RP wasn't a bad car, This year they are using Mercs rear setup which will/should improve it further.
Also
As for out-developing McLaren, they would have beat them to 3rd last year only for the points deduction.
I also feel Vettel will be re invigorated in the new team, especially in a car that should suit his style. ( Hoping anyway )

Yeah but surely Red Bull are strong favourites for second? They have a better driver line-up than last year and certainly better than AM. Barring some unlikely changes, the RB will most likely be second and the AM in the battle for third.

vectra · 02-02-2021 12:25PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but surely Red Bull are strong favourites for second? They have a better driver line-up than last year and certainly better than AM. Barring some unlikely changes, the RB will most likely be second and the AM in the battle for third.

Who knows what the teams will show up with this year?
Who would have thought that through the hybrid era Ferarri were always battling att he front and suddenly struggle with the midfield.
Or that McLaren would suddenly jump from the back to upper midfield.

Only time will tell. We could be guessing Till the cows come home.

barryribs · 02-02-2021 12:33PM

vectra wrote: »

Who knows what the teams will show up with this year?
Who would have thought that through the hybrid era Ferarri were always battling att he front and suddenly struggle with the midfield.
Or that McLaren would suddenly jump from the back to upper midfield.

Only time will tell. We could be guessing Till the cows come home.

Yea and the Honda engine is a complete unknown. They've said that they will continue to fund and develop it and want to leave on a high, but its probably more likely that resources will be moved away from it.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-02-2021 12:35PM

vectra wrote: »

Who knows what the teams will show up with this year?
Who would have thought that through the hybrid era Ferarri were always battling att he front and suddenly struggle with the midfield.
Or that McLaren would suddenly jump from the back to upper midfield.

Only time will tell. We could be guessing Till the cows come home.

If we take past performance as a good indicator of future performance (certainly the best indicator available), then RB will likely be well ahead of AM over the season. RP were probably second fastest at the start of last season but they couldn’t maintain it. They didn’t design the parts that most likely made them take a leap forward, (the pink Mercedes parts) themselves so they couldn’t develop it.

Jordan 199 · 02-02-2021 01:15PM

Mercedes launch on the 2nd of March.

robinwing · 02-02-2021 07:13PM

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Mercedes launch on the 2nd of March.

will hamilton have signed by then ?

Jordan 199 · 02-02-2021 07:17PM

robinwing wrote: »

will hamilton have signed by then ?

I say he will.

vectra · 03-02-2021 01:50AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If we take past performance as a good indicator of future performance (certainly the best indicator available), then RB will likely be well ahead of AM over the season. RP were probably second fastest at the start of last season but they couldn’t maintain it. They didn’t design the parts that most likely made them take a leap forward, (the pink Mercedes parts) themselves so they couldn’t develop it.

Thats not a good indicator.
Look what happened to Red Bull previously.

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 09:12AM

vectra wrote: »

Thats not a good indicator.
Look what happened to Red Bull previously.

In the last 11 years they dominated for four years in a row and then finished in 2nd 4th 2nd 3rd 3rd 3rd 2nd ever since. What’s not a good indicator about that. It’s certainly the best indicator we have.

If form or previous performance isn’t toe best indicator of future performance, then what do you think is the best indicator we have?

vectra · 03-02-2021 11:06AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

In the last 11 years they dominated for four years in a row and then finished in 2nd 4th 2nd 3rd 3rd 3rd 2nd ever since. What’s not a good indicator about that. It’s certainly the best indicator we have.

If form or previous performance isn’t toe best indicator of future performance, then what do you think is the best indicator we have?

Thats a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation.
Ferrari dominated.
Red Bull dominated,
Merc are currently dominating.
None of them ( excluding Current trend Merc ) continued their dominence.
Why do you think that is?

As for the best indicator?
We can only wait and watch.
Nobody, and I mean nobody can foresee what is going to happen.

As a side note, I did read a couple of articles recently that said Red Bull could be the big losers with the downforce changes.
Possible? Of course. In this sport anythnig is possible.

quokula · 03-02-2021 11:24AM

vectra wrote: »

Thats a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation.
Ferrari dominated.
Red Bull dominated,
Merc are currently dominating.
None of them ( excluding Current trend Merc ) continued their dominence.
Why do you think that is?

As for the best indicator?
We can only wait and watch.
Nobody, and I mean nobody can foresee what is going to happen.

As a side note, I did read a couple of articles recently that said Red Bull could be the big losers with the downforce changes.
Possible? Of course. In this sport anythnig is possible.

Ferrari's dominance ended when the FIA brought in drastic new tyre rules to try and shake up the order.

Red Bull's dominance ended when the FIA brought in the new engine formula after heavy lobbying from Mercedes who had been developing their hybrid for years.

Mercedes dominance has continued through a period of unparalleled rule stability where everyone just makes minor tweaks to their existing car and the competitive order has little chance of changing, with things like token limits enforcing that order even further.

So until we finally get a proper change to the formula, past performance will be a fairly reliable indicator. Fast cars don't become slow unless teams are forced to redesign them.

vectra · 03-02-2021 11:46AM

I agree with the comments above, but with the 10% downforce reduction, which teams rely on downforce the most?
Mercedes?
Red Bull?

Ferrari doesn't really as they run with low downforce to gain some speed so might affect them less.

As I said already. Who knows what will happen, as well as the big shuffle of drivers this season.
Hopefully it will put a fly in Merc's ointment.

Charlie-Bravo · 03-02-2021 11:58AM

sorry, I'm playing catch-up here...what's the rule change for this year? Less downforce?

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 12:11PM

vectra wrote: »

Thats a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation.
Ferrari dominated.
Red Bull dominated,
Merc are currently dominating.
None of them ( excluding Current trend Merc ) continued their dominence.
Why do you think that is?

As for the best indicator?
We can only wait and watch.
Nobody, and I mean nobody can foresee what is going to happen.

As a side note, I did read a couple of articles recently that said Red Bull could be the big losers with the downforce changes.
Possible? Of course. In this sport anythnig is possible.

You think that past performance as an indicator of future performance is "a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation"? Seriously?

If i asked you where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, what would you say and why?

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 12:19PM

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

sorry, I'm playing catch-up here...what's the rule change for this year? Less downforce?

They have made a few stabs at reducing downforce by 10%. The final decision was to cut away the floor leading to the tyres as that's a big part of how the teams use the floor to suck the cars to the ground.

The change has actually meant that the teams need to redesign the airflow from front to back to compensate. So it could lead to a change in the running order. Some say Mercedes will be effected the most, others say the Red Bull will suffer because it uses such high "rake" angle on the car. It's hard to know how the change will affect the cars.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153414/what-new-for-formula-1-in-2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-JKrs0rrc

Jordan 199 · 03-02-2021 01:43PM

Grosjean will be driving in IndyCar this year.

03-02-2021 04:21PM

Man with history of big crashes joins series that races wheel to wheel at 240mph. What could go wrong?
I'm not even saying that for a joke, I honestly don't think I'd feel comfortable watching Texas or Indy with him in it.

Jordan 199 · 03-02-2021 04:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Man with history of big crashes joins series that races wheel to wheel at 240mph. What could go wrong?
I'm not even saying that for a joke, I honestly don't think I'd feel comfortable watching Texas or Indy with him in it.

He won't be racing on any ovals. Article here.

vectra · 03-02-2021 05:04PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You think that past performance as an indicator of future performance is "a total load of Boll*x and utter speculation"? Seriously?

If i asked you where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, what would you say and why?

Likewise.
If I asked you January 2020 where do you think McLaren will come this year and why?

Or If I told you Torro Rosso would win a race and Merc would be off the podium.
Or that Gasley ~ Sainz & Stroll would take the top 3 steps in some race. What would you have said?

Again, I say, it is very easy for a team to get it right or wrong.
Anythnig outside of Merc this year is purely speculation.

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 05:06PM

vectra wrote: »

Likewise.
If I asked you January 2020 where do you think McLaren will come this year and why?

Or If I told you Torro Rosso would win a race and Merc would be off the podium.
Or that Gasley ~ Sainz & Stroll would take the top 3 steps in some race. What would you have said?

Again, I say, it is very easy for a team to get it right or wrong.
Anythnig outside of Merc this year is purely speculation.

Ok. So what’s your answer to the question: “where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, and why?”?

vectra · 03-02-2021 05:23PM

This is it wrote: »

You literally contradict yourself with that last sentence.

'We can't tell what's going to happen in the future, no wait we can sometimes'

Everything is speculative, but it's speculative based on logic, reasoning, information.

Would I have guessed Gasly would win a race, no, probably not. Would I have guessed Hamilton would run away with the championship, yes.

Why? Because of Gasly's and Toro Rosso's form, previous races, etc. And the exact same for Hamilton.

Can you tell me, is Russell going to win the championship with Williams this year?

No, he's not. How do we know that? Because we have enough information to logically conclude that it's not going to happen.

I honestly think you misspoke earlier and you're just doubling down now and don't want to admit it.

Sorry to rock your boat dude, but read back in my posts and you will see I specifically said EXCLUDE Merc. :rolleyes:

vectra · 03-02-2021 05:25PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. So what’s your answer to the question: “where you think Mercedes will likely finish in this year's championship, and why?”?

Haven't seen any other team come near them since the Hybrid era, have you?
Based on that it would be easy to speculate they will win again this year.
But nothing is guaranteed in this sport.

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 05:51PM

vectra wrote: »

Haven't seen any other team come near them since the Hybrid era, have you?
Based on that it would be easy to speculate they will win again this year.
But nothing is guaranteed in this sport.

Ah, so you’re using previous performance as an indicator of future performance. Of course you are, as are we all because it’s the best indicator we have.

You said it was “A total load of bollo*cks and utter speculation”.

Truth is that we have a fair idea of where the teams will be in the grid. Williams will most likely be towards the back, as will Haas and Alfa. Mercedes will most likely be at the front, as will red bull. Mclaren, AM, Alpine will most likely be in the battle for third. It’s all based on past performance as an indicator of future performance. The normal way.

You’ve somehow painted yourself into a corner where you have to argue that we have no idea where teams will be each year (except Mercedes, for some reason) and we have to pretend it’s all random each year.

vectra · 03-02-2021 05:58PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah, so you’re using previous performance as an indicator of future performance. Of course you are, as are we all because it’s the way indicator we have.

You said it was “A total load of bollo*cks and utter speculation”.

Truth is that we have a fair idea of where the teams will be in the grid. Williams will most likely be towards the back, as will Haas and Alfa. Mercedes will most likely be at the front, as will red bull. Mclaren, AM, Alpine will most likely be in the battle for third. It’s all based on past performance as an indicator of future performance. The normal way.

You’ve somehow painted yourself into a corner where you have to argue that we have no idea where teams will be each year (except Mercedes, for some reason) and we have to pretend it’s all random each year.

Did I say they would ?
NO
Did I say it is fair to SPECULATE? YES
I have not painted myself into any corner.
Everything is speculative and nothing is set in concrete until the season is over.

I have another question for you.
Why is it every season you are like a dog following a bitch in heat when you see me post anything?
:rolleyes::pac::pac::pac:

flazio · 03-02-2021 06:03PM

Didn't Mercedes-Benz say they'd let Grosjean take an old car of theirs out for a fun spin when he's up to it.
Not as a test to replace Hamilton or anything, just as a good will recovery aid.

vectra · 03-02-2021 06:12PM

This is it wrote: »

You've disproven your own point.

If you say so.:P

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 07:33PM

vectra wrote: »

Did I say they would ?
NO
Did I say it is fair to SPECULATE? YES
I have not painted myself into any corner.
Everything is speculative and nothing is set in concrete until the season is over.

I have another question for you.
Why is it every season you are like a dog following a bitch in heat when you see me post anything?
:rolleyes::pac::pac::pac:

Did you mean to call yourself a bitch in your analogy?

Ah, shur, you’re great craic. And I can get you to say anything. I say left, you say right. I say past performance is the best indicator we have of future performance and you say that’s total bolloc*ks. I just like to see how far from reality you’ll stray, just to disagree with me. Today i got you to pretend past performance isn’t a good indication of future performance, that was a good one.

Cheers

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Comments