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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #2252
    Kunta Kinte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Kunta Kinte


    Graham wrote: »
    :D

    apparently it's hyperbole season

    No no only the "lockdown merchants" and the "curtain twitchers" engage in hyperbole and hysteria. The enlightened people on the other side of the fence would never ever lose the run of themselves in that manner.


  • #2253
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    When we exit level 5 does that change the position in 8nyernational travel as non essential journeys are allowed


  • #2254
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Windmill100000 wrote: »
    No foreign travel or trips to other countries to see friends, but I've certainly never felt locked in. I've gone for my daily walks when I can. I'm bored but I've never actually felt "locked in".

    Lots of people went on holidays during the year. The lockdown was lifted at various points during the year. People were able to travel.

    This whole idea that Xmas was first time for people to leave the house and see people is utter b...


  • #2255
    Kunta Kinte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Kunta Kinte


    francogarbanzo wrote: »
    I don't think you'll get much of an answer here. People seem obsessed with arguing the effectiveness of restrictions, comparing data from sources all over the place, and making dishonest misrepresentations of each others' points. There is a complete lack of conversation around the moral/ethical/legal side to lockdown and other restrictions. I think we need a specific thread about it, to be honest.

    Away you go and start one then.


  • #2256
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    beauf wrote: »
    This whole idea that Xmas was first time for people to leave the house and see people is utter b...

    Did Dublin people have much reprieve from lockdown from the previous March?

    The certainty had 3 lockdowns before last Christmas


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  • #2257
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Are suggesting death rate was decreasing previously?

    Yes, Yes I am

    541121.JPG


  • #2258
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    beauf wrote: »
    None to some IS an increase.



    I'm not sure what option you think I'm arguing against. People who wanted the lockdown lifted, got their wish in Dec. It almost immediately caused a crisis in the health services in Jan. So you don't have to guess what might of happened, because it already happened. It also caused a return to a harsher lockdown in Jan maybe longer.




    Most other countries didn't open up for everyone to go nuts over xmas. That was Ireland being "special".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cbo1aTJito&ab_channel=FamilyGuyFunnyMoments

    We've had 10months of lockdown, no major crisis.
    We (against medical advice) lift it for 3~4 weeks at xmas. Immediate crisis.
    But is not the 3-4 weeks at fault, its the previous 10 months. Makes perfect sense.

    The surge was caused by going from 0 to 100 over night. If we had stayed at around a 50 from October to January the cases wouldn’t have exploded so suddenly at the level that they did.
    I genuinely don’t know what’s so difficult to understand about that. The lack of supply meant the demand was huge by December, particularly with the dire warnings about the supply being withheld again in due course.
    It wasn’t what the government did, but the way they did it. A more balanced approach wouldn’t have caused such a massive surge.

    If we hadn’t had strict and harsh conditions in the 6 week run up the cases wouldn’t have exploded.
    We can’t stay in lockdowns to prevent lockdowns, that’s absolutely ridiculous. The government promised doing the 6 weeks of lockdown would save Christmas and they knew going back on that promise would be political suicide. Lifting the lockdown was as much about saving their own skins as it was giving people and businesses a break.
    They didn’t do it out of the goodness of their heart.


  • #2259
    acequion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭acequion


    francogarbanzo wrote: »
    I don't think you'll get much of an answer here. People seem obsessed with arguing the effectiveness of restrictions, comparing data from sources all over the place, and making dishonest misrepresentations of each others' points. There is a complete lack of conversation around the moral/ethical/legal side to lockdown and other restrictions. I think we need a specific thread about it, to be honest.

    Thanks francogarbanzo at least for answering. Yes maybe we need a specific thread. I am extremely worried about it all to be honest. Just where are the basic rights and why are we hearing nothing about challenges and opposition? All the people baying for clamping down on travel really would need to be careful what they wish for. I also see another poster wondering the same as me. Is the extreme stance for level 5 only?

    As to those who say they don't feel locked in, well I feel extremely locked in and it's starting to feel suffocating. But I suppose I'll be accused of getting hysterical.:rolleyes:


  • #2260
    Windmill100000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Windmill100000


    beauf wrote: »
    Lots of people went on holidays during the year. The lockdown was lifted at various points during the year. People were able to travel.

    This whole idea that Xmas was first time for people to leave the house and see people is utter b...

    That was personal experience. I know others have gone overseas. I was hoping to get to the UK to see friends but that wasnt possible. Hopefully at some point towards the end of the year I will get over, but that depends on restrictions here and there. Time will tell....


  • #2261
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,567 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    SusieBlue wrote: »

    If we hadn’t had strict and harsh conditions in the 6 week run up the cases wouldn’t have exploded.

    Again, that is purely based on nothing more than you want it to be true.

    You have offered absolutely no evidence to suggest that is true and looking at the actual evidence from other countries the absolute opposite happened.


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  • #2262
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Lundstram wrote: »
    Hearing on the news a class action lawsuit is underway against the minister of education for not allowing special needs children return to school.

    Good on them, I hope they are rewarded.

    There needs to be a class action lawsuit against the Govt for all of this.


  • #2263
    Windmill100000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Windmill100000


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The surge was caused by going from 0 to 100 over night. If we had stayed at around a 50 from October to January the cases wouldn’t have exploded so suddenly at the level that they did.
    I genuinely don’t know what’s so difficult to understand about that. The lack of supply meant the demand was huge by December, particularly with the dire warnings about the supply being withheld again in due course.
    It wasn’t what the government did, but the way they did it. A more balanced approach wouldn’t have caused such a massive surge.

    If we hadn’t had strict and harsh conditions in the 6 week run up the cases wouldn’t have exploded.
    We can’t stay in lockdowns to prevent lockdowns, that’s absolutely ridiculous. The government promised doing the 6 weeks of lockdown would save Christmas and they knew going back on that promise would be political suicide. Lifting the lockdown was as much about saving their own skins as it was giving people and businesses a break.
    They didn’t do it out of the goodness of their heart.

    I dont know if that's necessarily true. Families were always going to gather at Christmas in big numbers, even if they had been meeting up before under lesser restrictions. It's all heresay anyway as we are dealing with the aftermath of loosening restrictions whatever way you look at it


  • #2264
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Boggles wrote: »
    Again, that is purely based on nothing more than you want it to be true.

    You have offered absolutely no evidence to suggest that is true and looking at the actual evidence from other countries the absolute opposite happened.

    Was the purpose of the lockdown not to save Christmas? Was it not supposed to put us in a good position to experience a meaningful Christmas?
    Do you think it achieved that?

    Looking at other countries, they were (at worst) at our level 3.5 for October and November, and open for business. Some were even at level 2.
    None, as far as I’m aware, did a 6 week full lockdown to save Christmas.
    Now, most did end up going into their versions of level 5 Christmas Week. But we were just a few days behind them.
    So why exactly did we do lockdown 2, if we were to end up in exactly the same position as the countries that didn’t do it?
    Hardly a roaring success.

    It all comes down to supply and demand. Locking down for prolonged harsh periods clearly causes bigger surges when things reopen. The evidence is right there in front of us.


  • #2265
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, Yes I am

    541121.JPG

    Unless they reached the land of Tír na nÓg that meant they had a lot of vulnerable people in the country when the pandemic hit.

    People are finite.

    But kudos to Swedish healthcare system for protecting their citizens previously and lowering the death rate. No easy task


  • #2266
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,567 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Mr. Karate wrote: »
    There needs to be a class action lawsuit against the Govt for all of this.

    GemGem and the guitarist from Fleetwood Mac tried it.


  • #2267
    copeyhagen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The surge was caused by going from 0 to 100 over night. If we had stayed at around a 50 from October to January the cases wouldn’t have exploded so suddenly at the level that they did.
    I genuinely don’t know what’s so difficult to understand about that. .

    this is totally correct, look at all the other EU countries that didnt lockdown for most of the Year and how they didnt spike like we did at Xmas.

    only the government are to blame for this, bragging that we were the 'strictest locked down Country in urope' back in september or whenever it was, disgusting.


  • #2268
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,934 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Windmill100000 wrote: »
    I dont know if that's necessarily true. Families were always going to gather at Christmas in big numbers, even if they had been meeting up before under lesser restrictions. It's all heresay anyway as we are dealing with the aftermath of loosening restrictions whatever way you look at it

    And would there necessarily have been less pub/restaurant going in December if those businesses had reopened earlier? I'm not sure socialising of that kind operates on thye supply/demand model envisaged by SusieBlue. You could argue there would have been even more as people had gotten back into the habit.


  • #2269
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,567 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    And would there necessarily have been less pub/restaurant going in December if those businesses had reopened earlier? I'm not sure socialising of that kind operates on thye supply/demand model envisaged by SusieBlue. You could argue there would have been even more as people had gotten back into the habit.

    Yes, it's a rather naive view of human behavior.

    'If only Karen was allowed get her hair done in November, she wouldn't have called around to the girls to neck Pinot Grigio in December.'


  • #2270
    Windmill100000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Windmill100000


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    And would there necessarily have been less pub/restaurant going in December if those businesses had reopened earlier? I'm not sure socialising of that kind operates on thye supply/demand model envisaged by SusieBlue. You could argue there would have been even more as people had gotten back into the habit.

    People were always going to celebrate at Christmas and catch up with family and people they had not seen. It's the one time of year people are guaranteed to get together.


  • #2271
    completedit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Wow. We are villanising people for engaging in basic human behaviour after months and months of restrictions in light of the emergence of huge vaccine deals which suggested we were on the downward stretch.


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  • #2272
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    copeyhagen wrote: »
    this is totally correct, look at all the other EU countries that didnt lockdown for most of the Year and how they didnt spike like we did at Xmas.

    only the government are to blame for this, bragging that we were the 'strictest locked down Country in urope' back in september or whenever it was, disgusting.

    Not everyone celebrates xmas like the Irish do though...

    ...12 Pubs of Christmas...


  • #2273
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    This thread is about the sunk costs of lockdown and all that entails.

    Is it? I thought it was about the relaxation of restrictions.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, Getdown Services, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #2274
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    completedit wrote: »
    Wow. We are villanising people for engaging in basic human behaviour after months and months of restrictions in light of the emergence of huge vaccine deals which suggested we were on the downward stretch.

    How does getting the vaccine some time in 2021 help with mixing in large groups in 2020, during a pandemic. Maybe someone could join the dots there.

    Does C19 get time off at Xmas?


  • #2275
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Penfailed wrote: »
    Is it? I thought it was about the relaxation of restrictions.

    Different threads have been joined. The one I was in was about let the weak and vulnerable die so we can all go off and make a few bob, have a decent pint. Only over 70s get sick and injured and go to hospitals or something like that.


  • #2276
    MOH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,471 ✭✭✭MOH


    Boggles wrote: »
    Again, that is purely based on nothing more than you want it to be true.

    You have offered absolutely no evidence to suggest that is true and looking at the actual evidence from other countries the absolute opposite happened.

    It's based on the blindingly flipping obvious. "Lockdown for six weeks to save Christmas" ... "Meaningful Christmas" ... "Aren't we great we're reopening now and we're the best in Europe"..... Oh wait, we've spiked, who could possibly have foreseen that?
    Absent a time machine or a portal to a parallel dimension it's clearly not going to be possible to go back and implement a less strict lockdown to prove the point.

    There's ample evidence that the October level 5 lockdown was premature, that much is obvious from the daily numbers., which were in freefall well before L5 had an chance to take effect.

    You've offered absolutely no evidence for anything you've claimed in any of your posts I've seen. Would it kill you to post a link to this actual evidence from other countries which is applicable to our situation?


  • #2277
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    MOH wrote: »
    It's based on the blindingly flipping obvious. "Lockdown for six weeks to save Christmas" ... "Meaningful Christmas" ... "Aren't we great we're reopening now and we're the best in Europe"..... Oh wait, we've spiked, who could possibly have foreseen that?
    Absent a time machine or a portal to a parallel dimension it's clearly not going to be possible to go back and implement a less strict lockdown to prove the point.

    There's ample evidence that the October level 5 lockdown was premature, that much is obvious from the daily numbers., which were in freefall well before L5 had an chance to take effect.

    You've offered absolutely no evidence for anything you've claimed in any of your posts I've seen. Would it kill you to post a link to this actual evidence from other countries which is applicable to our situation?

    I agree.

    Boggles wheres the evidence? You mustve clocked up 500 posts in this thread since mid December already... wer are them hyperlinks??

    PS responding with "gemgem" is not gonna cut it.

    Ohhhhhhh no pun intended :pac:


  • #2278
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,590 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    So will they increase the numbers to scare us


  • #2279
    Windmill100000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Windmill100000


    completedit wrote: »
    Wow. We are villanising people for engaging in basic human behaviour after months and months of restrictions in light of the emergence of huge vaccine deals which suggested we were on the downward stretch.

    I'm not villanising at all, cant speak for anyone else obviously. It was bound to happen when restrictions were lifted regardless of when they were lifted. Christmas just created the perfect storm with gatherings, people flying in etc. I suppose it just shows how quickly the virus can spread when restrictions are relaxed.


  • #2280
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    The whole "Christmas" thing is psychological manipulation.

    "If you're good we can save Christmas."

    2 weeks later...

    "Oh look what you did now you selfish people."


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  • #2281
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,333 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    So will they increase the numbers to scare us

    Scare you into what.......think you're in the wrong place.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576&order=desc&page=


This discussion has been closed.
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