Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Mr. Karate

PTH2009 wrote: »

So will they increase the numbers to scare us

That's a safe bet. They announced a 6 week extension after it was announced that cases dropped by 7,000. Got to justify the extension somehow. If HSE/Nephet were private Fortunate Corporations they would have been accused of cooking the books by now.

beauf

SusieBlue wrote: »

Was the purpose of the lockdown not to save Christmas? Was it not supposed to put us in a good position to experience a meaningful Christmas?
Do you think it achieved that? ...

Save Christmas no.

...Lockdown restrictions were reimplemented nationwide following a rapid surge in confirmed cases and the introduction of a second wave of COVID-19 in Ireland.....The second lockdown resulted in Ireland's 14-day incidence rate to be the lowest in the European Union...

It was the lifting of restrictions, was intended to save Christmas.

...Under the planned third phase of the reopening, restrictions on household visits and travel between counties are to be eased for a period of three weeks, to allow family and friends to celebrate Christmas together..

...What is the purpose of lifting the restrictions?
Taoiseach Micheál Martin said he hoped people could have a “meaningful Christmas” and visit members of their family they might not have seen for the last year....

beauf

sabat wrote: »

The whole "Christmas" thing is psychological manipulation.

"If you're good we can save Christmas."

2 weeks later...

"Oh look what you did now you selfish people."

Actually they bowed to social and commercial pressure.

Which is the argument being made here, for doing it again.

Kunta Kinte

PTH2009 wrote: »

So will they increase the numbers to scare us

Come what may wet pubs will not be reopening before the June bank holiday weekend if that`s what you`re getting at.

TobyHolmes

other half was telling me lots of people in tents and homeless people around dublin city centre - more than normal.

is it because they do not want to go into the hostels/shelters in close quarters or are more people getting into financial difficulties?

hynesie08

TobyHolmes wrote: »

other half was telling me lots of people in tents and homeless people around dublin city centre - more than normal.

is it because they do not want to go into the hostels/shelters in close quarters or are more people getting into financial difficulties?

With construction and hospitality shut, there's lots of covered walkways in places like temple bar and Abbey St, they were always in tents, they've just migrated centrally.

TobyHolmes

hynesie08 wrote: »

With construction and hospitality shut, there's lots of covered walkways in places like temple bar and Abbey St, they were always in tents, they've just migrated centrally.

awww makes sense

Windmill100000

sabat wrote: »

The whole "Christmas" thing is psychological manipulation.

"If you're good we can save Christmas."

2 weeks later...

"Oh look what you did now you selfish people."

You are making out people had no clue how coronavirus spreads. We all know now and we knew then. The more people you surrounded yourself with the greater the likelihood it can spread. Some people had small family gatherings, others went all out. Was to be expected though.

namloc1980

Lundstram wrote: »

Hearing on the news a class action lawsuit is underway against the minister of education for not allowing special needs children return to school.

Good on them, I hope they are rewarded.

Don't think class action lawsuits are a thing in Irish law.

ypres5

completedit wrote: »

Wow. We are villanising people for engaging in basic human behaviour after months and months of restrictions in light of the emergence of huge vaccine deals which suggested we were on the downward stretch.

according to an above poster someone going for a drink or getting a hair cut is an absurd decadence that deserves a course of self flagellation

TobyHolmes

ypres5 wrote: »

according to an above poster someone going for a drink or getting a hair cut is an absurd decadence that deserves a course of self flagellation

oh how we are such sinners



its like medieval times

TobyHolmes

namloc1980 wrote: »

Don't think class action lawsuits are a thing in Irish law.

there are representative action procedures available in Ireland. Limited compared to how other countries avail of class action suits but there are options.

Windmill100000

namloc1980 wrote: »

Don't think class action lawsuits are a thing in Irish law.

Can't see anything about a lawsuit online.

chasm

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/home/605173/large-crowd-attends-traveller-funeral-in-carrick-on-shannon-today.html

"The Leitrim Observer has been contacted by several people from the Carrick-on-Shannon area about a Traveller funeral which took place today in the town and was attended by hundreds of people who blatantly defied the current public health rules.
A number of vehicles with registration plates from outside the jurisdiction were also noted in attendance.
Locals expressed their disgust that such numbers of people attended, and were allowed to attend, a funeral at the height of the current Level 5 restrictions in place in the country."


https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/home/605181/gardai-appeal-to-all-citizens-to-demonstrate-personal-and-social-responsibility.html
"Following a query from the Leitrim Observer today, the Garda Press Office has responded by calling on all citizens to demonstrate personal and social responsibility to comply with Public Health Guidelines and Regulations.

This follows a breach of such guidelines and restrictions at a Traveller funeral in Carrick-on-Shannon this afternoon which local people say was attended by hundreds of mourners."

beauf

Windmill100000 wrote: »

You are making out people had no clue how coronavirus spreads. We all know now and we knew then. The more people you surrounded yourself with the greater the likelihood it can spread. Some people had small family gatherings, others went all out. Was to be expected though.

I think a modest increase what was hoped.

Instead people went way beyond just their families.

froog

beauf wrote: »

Different threads have been joined. The one I was in was about let the weak and vulnerable die so we can all go off and make a few bob, have a decent pint. Only over 70s get sick and injured and go to hospitals or something like that.

yeah that's the general gist of this thread too.

TobyHolmes

RTE News trying to convince us all to take up bird watching as a hobby LOL

hatrickpatrick

ypres5 wrote: »

according to an above poster someone going for a drink or getting a hair cut is an absurd decadence that deserves a course of self flagellation

If one were to pay an attractive woman to do one's flagellation, would that still count for the purposes of penance? Asking for a friend. Occurs to me that she could easily flog you from two metres away with the right kind of bullwhip :pac:

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Different threads have been joined. The one I was in was about let the weak and vulnerable die so we can all go off and make a few bob, have a decent pint. Only over 70s get sick and injured and go to hospitals or something like that.

This tired argument again...

Archeron

TobyHolmes wrote: »

RTE News trying to convince us all to take up bird watching as a hobby LOL

Ha, I beat them to it. My new feathery friends that I've made since March follow me around my 5km walk. I think soon I might qualify for an xmen movie

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Unless they reached the land of Tír na nÓg that meant they had a lot of vulnerable people in the country when the pandemic hit.

People are finite.

But kudos to Swedish healthcare system for protecting their citizens previously and lowering the death rate. No easy task

Have a look at Ireland’s. You may be shocked

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

This tired argument again...

Well more specifically, it was "we" can't afford the economics off it. Whereas in reality not everyone is financially worse off. In general these are very simplistic view points, usually only looking at the issue from their own interests. Rarely they look at the bigger picture objectively. Its similar to how people were expecting a collapse of the housing market. Which didn't happen.

TobyHolmes

Archeron wrote: »

Ha, I beat them to it. My new feathery friends that I've made since March follow me around my 5km walk. I think soon I might qualify for an xmen movie

:pac::pac:

bb1234567

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1354494334880555008
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1354501586068754433
This poster is interesting and makes quite balanced and informative graphs. Despite having strong views against restrictions the information he presents is always truthful. Well worth a follow. Some of the posts are pretty damning and shocking, it's fascinating to see some US states follow almost the exact same trajectory of cases/hospitalisations despite wildly differing restrictions, and then what's even more perplexing is the US media criticism of states with relaxed restrictions despite having similar or lower rates of transmission as states like NY or CA.

Now While I say it's interesting I don't think it's necessarily relevant to Ireland or Europe, I think it's pretty clear that restrictions do work well to suppress the virus if complied with as this was pretty clear int the way Ireland postponed the Autumn wave while all of Europe saw widespread infection in early winter while Ireland did not.

Whether it was worth it for Ireland is another discussion but anyway..interesting to see what's going on in the rest of the world and the sometimes/often failing methods of suppression going on there. Some US states appear to be enforcing restrictions at massive financial loss and decimation of other sectors of society with absolutely no gain in terms of reduced COVID deaths compared to some other US states, it's hard to ignore in some cases.

Mr. Karate

No wonder the EU hate that Boris is doing a virtual victory lap

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-covid-vaccine-q-and-a-who-gets-it-when-and-how-39817543.html

darconio

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I dont know if that's necessarily true. Families were always going to gather at Christmas in big numbers, even if they had been meeting up before under lesser restrictions. It's all heresay anyway as we are dealing with the aftermath of loosening restrictions whatever way you look at it

Nothing against you, but if the main reason of the surge was caused by family gathering, why the hell they decided to close non-essential retailers? You see there is always something that doesn't add up: as of today they haven't been able to prove that hairdresser or clothes shops are one of the cause of the virus spreading among the population, still they are the easy target for their terror campaign. A more moderate approach, as said previously, could provide a fair compromise for everybody : slowly open the country without threatening that in 2 months we close again, and everything will follow. Going to the media stating that we shouldn't go on holiday, hospitality won't open till june and we don't know if next xmas we'll be able to see our family only increase the frustration and the lack of credibility for the measures applied.

TobyHolmes

Mr. Karate wrote: »

No wonder the EU hate that Boris is doing a virtual victory lap

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-covid-vaccine-q-and-a-who-gets-it-when-and-how-39817543.html

haha yeah in fairness to the UK (pains me to do so lol) they have vaccinated over 7 million people. Compare that to the US with approx 2 million and the EU's paltry numbers - its a joke

Happydays2020

I supported the lock down post Christmas. There was a need and we are seeing the results.

However the narrative in recent days is nuts. No other country in the world is encouraging more restrictions. Rather than looking for hope they are seeking despair.

Anyway - anyway one else consider emigrating?

Penfailed

francogarbanzo wrote: »

It's unsettling how much "the ends justify the means" thinking is going on here, particularly with the pro-lockdowners (or anti-lockdown-skeptics, whatever you want to call them.) Since my human rights question was hand-waved away with an appeal to authority, I'll outline my thoughts below and I'd love someone to argue against it.

1. We have fundamental human rights. These rights must be observed by the state. These are outlined by the United Nations, as well as the EU - two organisations of which we are a member state.

2. Those human rights include the right of assembly, free association, free movement within our borders, etc.

3. Those rights are currently being violated by our current lockdown restrictions.

4. Violations of human rights are unethical.

5. Therefore, our current lockdown restrictions are unethical.

Regardless of the severity of COVID-19, the solution, even if temporary, should not be in violation of anyone's human rights. The whole idea of human rights is they are observed regardless of the circumstances, and regardless of any utility that would be gained by violating them. Either we have them, or we don't.

I disagree. Yes, freedom of movement within our borders is a human right but if that right is also detrimental to the health of the people within those borders, surely health supersedes the right to free movement?

Dickie10

yeah i will be going on the beer all over Ulster in summer when they are fully opened and we are still messing around til october