Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

mirrorwall14 · 19-01-2021 10:43PM

From Facebook and really sums it up tonight:

I am so upset as a teacher and parent at how the Department and Norma appear to have deliberately set out to get the school community to be at war with parents. Teachers and SNA’s are now hurt, tired, feeling unheard and feeling unsafe. Parents are hurt, tired and feeling unheard and frustrated. Both groups have been pitched at each other by an incompetent minister and department. This does not lead to good outcomes for anyone.

There is no excuse for a plan not having been agreed long before this point. NONE. If I turned up to class without a backup plan I would be considered incompetent. This should NEVER have happened. This should have been set out and agreed with all consultation done last August. But the Department and minister outright refused to acknowledge they might ever need one. They did not do their job. And now here we are.

What an utter mess

wirelessdude01 · 19-01-2021 10:44PM

Tandey wrote: »

Nor will shop assistants I’d imagine.

I was responding to what i believe is a parent who suggested it. Please wind your neck in.

KrustyUCC · 19-01-2021 10:45PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Let's hear the argument that they got it right, then. Or is the only bar set in your mind, they opened, so it was right?

I have relatives in the UK with kids with special needs as well

One in England two in Wales

Their kids never stopped going to school, never got out of routine, didn't stop having a social outlet and haven't regressed in comparison to my nephews over here

Thats getting things right to me

Larbre34 · 19-01-2021 10:46PM

I think these schools not reopening is for the best.

While I could never imagine the pain and stress of parents seeing their beloved kids regress, the unavoidable fact remains that dangerous levels of infection are present in the Community, including an increasing percentage of UK variant. The risk to everyone, staff, parents and especially children, a percentage of whom will be at increased vulnerability due to their condtions.

We can just hope that all Irish people will continue now to take the level of responsibility that we've seen these past few weeks, having not taken it over Christmas and that the risk to all will very soon be reduced enough to reopen all schools and all workplaces.

harr · 19-01-2021 10:47PM

khalessi wrote: »

Krusty, harr, Pidgeonchaser, and to the other parents of children with additional needs. I am sorry this is so hard for you the parents of children with additional needs. I think it is appalling that they constantly are the group to suffer. I watched this when I was a nurse, I started out in residential service in my teens and as a nurse and as a teacher and all along various governments have eroded services in this area because they know it is a silent voice despite parents screaming as loud as they can to get assistance.

Schools increasingly covered the broked health system as it became the place where OT, physio SLT NEPS was carried out. There should have been a plan and one where these services could acces schools to carry out their services.

However, the Minister was asked for a plan since last March but refused to look at one. Instead we had cleaning budget/ppe cut on 23rd December and not reinstated yet. She weaponised children with additional needs to get schools reopened and raised hopes of parents. It was a horrible thing to do to parents under pressure. In the last few weeks she hhas been asked to consult with teachers and her response, to leak information to the media before teachers and to turn up to an organised meeting ohe hour late for 5 minutes.

The parents deserve better, the children and adults with additional needs deseve better and school staff deserve better.

I just hope that parents realise this has been done out of safety reasons and we can all work together in the future.

Yes I agree fully, schools have been used for most if not all of my sons therapy needs over the years and teachers have gone above their roles in a lot of cases .
We are well used to knock backs at this stage , when you have to fight daily for services it can make one hard and sometimes bitter.
Appreciate your post

History Queen · 19-01-2021 10:48PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I have relatives in the UK with kids with special needs as well

One in England two in Wales

Their kids never stopped going to school, never got out of routine, didn't stop having a social outlet and haven't regressed in comparison to my nephews over here

Thats getting things right to me

Can I ask do you know the practicalities of how their school is run? As in, what measures did they put in place that could be replicated here? I don't know enough about special schools myself to comment but if they are open safely elsewhere surely we can learn from them and try do the same here?

Edit: I have no idea if special schools in the UK are comparable to here. I have no first hand knowledge of the sector.

Stateofyou · 19-01-2021 10:51PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I have relatives in the UK with kids with special needs as well

One in England two in Wales

Their kids never stopped going to school, never got out of routine, didn't stop having a social outlet and haven't regressed in comparison to my nephews over here

Thats getting things right to me

My point is, up in the North every one of the special schools had covid cases/clusters. Many SN needs children have health conditions making them more vulnerable.
I'm not sure what the (limited) data is here on special schools, maybe someone can jump in.

I asked my question because I don't know how well those schools in the UK have been operating. How many have been sick, how many have needed to close. How did they overcome the obstacles we face here. Are they supplied with high level ppe/cleaning funds? Do they have an operating and even enhanced track and trace system? Are the pupils on a rotation? Do they have enough subs? Aren't their hospitals overwhelmed there and more measures are being considered because of it? Wouldn't some schools remaining open be contributing to that? You get my point.

I don't know the answer to any of that. That is why I said lets hear the argument they got it right. Anyone can open a school. It's what happens afterwards that matters.

Tandey · 19-01-2021 10:51PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I was responding to what i believe is a parent who suggested it. Please wind your neck in.

I don’t care who you were replying to, I replied to you. I have the freedom to chat in this thread as much as you thank you very much.

Stateofyou · 19-01-2021 11:02PM

Tandey wrote: »

It wasn’t a comparison. It was a point that they don’t seem to be moving certain essential service workers up the vaccine chain.

Why would shop assistants need to move up the vaccine chain.

beggars_bush · 19-01-2021 11:03PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

I expect a U turn by 5pm on Monday

I was wrong

9pm on Tuesday

yerwanthere123 · 19-01-2021 11:04PM

So when do ye think schools will actually reopen? At the the rate the positivity rate is dropping is February 1st feasible? Although perhaps when mid-term is the next week they might wait until the 15th. Saw some people on here mentioning February 22nd but it surely won't come to that.

wirelessdude01 · 19-01-2021 11:05PM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

So when do ye think schools will actually reopen? At the the rate the positivity rate is dropping is February 1st feasible? Although perhaps when mid-term is the next week they might wait until the 15th. Saw some people on here mentioning February 22nd but it surely won't come to that.

I said earlier I expect full reopening on Feb 22nd, Monday after midterm.

km79 · 19-01-2021 11:06PM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

So when do ye think schools will actually reopen? At the the rate the positivity rate is dropping is February 1st feasible? Although perhaps when mid-term is the next week they might wait until the 15th. Saw some people on here mentioning February 22nd but it surely won't come to that.

The mid term is the 15th to the 22nd
Waiting till after the mid term gives three extra weeks of which only two would involve remote learning
It’s probably the safest and most sensible option given the pressure the health system is currently under
I expect Norma to push on with Feb 1st

KrustyUCC · 19-01-2021 11:08PM

History Queen wrote: »

Can I ask do you know the practicalities of how their school is run? As in, what measures did they put in place that could be replicated here? I don't know enough about special schools myself to comment but if they are open safely elsewhere surely we can learn from them and try do the same here?

Edit: I have no idea if special schools in the UK are comparable to here. I have no first hand knowledge of the sector.

That's the thing

I'm no expert but both would be units within primary schools

Both operating pod systems

6 in a class

Teachers and SNA's obviously being hands on

Anecdotally the English school does seem better at hand washing after every activity and the Irish and Welsh about on par

Not sure what difference that would make and it is difficult to get all kids to wash their hands

From the outside looking in not to too much difference bar being open and shut

For instance the English school would have very similar covid rates to Cork at the moment

The Welsh school not so much but that area had higher rates than Cork at stages

yerwanthere123 · 19-01-2021 11:09PM

km79 wrote: »

The mid term is the 15th to the 22nd
Waiting till after the mid term gives three extra weeks of which only two would involve remote learning
It’s probably the safest and most sensible option given the pressure the health system is currently under
I expect Norma to push on with Feb 1st

My bad, thought it was the previous week.

billy_beckham · 19-01-2021 11:09PM

km79 wrote: »

The mid term is the 15th to the 22nd
Waiting till after the mid term gives three extra weeks of which only two would involve remote learning
It’s probably the safest and most sensible option given the pressure the health system is currently under
I expect Norma to push on with Feb 1st

Given all the time that's been lost would the mid term not be abandoned?

Danzy · 19-01-2021 11:11PM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

So when do ye think schools will actually reopen? At the the rate the positivity rate is dropping is February 1st feasible? Although perhaps when mid-term is the next week they might wait until the 15th. Saw some people on here mentioning February 22nd but it surely won't come to that.

It'll be slower than we think. The threat of the new variant rising up numbers in a more open environment.

They won't risk it for a few more weeks.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 19-01-2021 11:11PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Given all the time that's been lost would the mid term not be abandoned?

Everyone still working so that's unlikely. They can pull 2 contingency days but there haven't been missed school days to account for this as delayed return after Xmas was an extension of the holidays.

Not saying that right or wrong but that wud be the situation I think.

History Queen · 19-01-2021 11:12PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's the thing

I'm no expert but both would be units within primary schools

Both operating pod systems

6 in a class

Teachers and SNA's obviously being hands on

Anecdotally the English school does seem better at hand washing after every activity and the Irish and Welsh about on par

Not sure what difference that would make and it is difficult to get all kids to wash their hands

From the outside looking in not to too much difference bar being open and shut

For instance the English school would have very similar covid rates to Cork at the moment

The Welsh school not so much but that area had higher rates than Cork at stages

Thanks for the reply. Like I said I don't know enough about special schools and how they are run (either here or in UK) to comment I was just wondering if there was an obvious difference or mitagating factor that might need to be taken in to account.

wirelessdude01 · 19-01-2021 11:13PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Given all the time that's been lost would the mid term not be abandoned?

No lost time in my school.

Stateofyou · 19-01-2021 11:13PM

Nearly laughed when I read this. Nearly.

"In a statement, the department said it was "regrettable that after unprecedented engagement with primary and special education stakeholders, a shared objective that would allow children with special educational needs return to in-school learning, could not be reached".

The department said its efforts had included consistent, frequent and ongoing engagement at ministerial and official level with education partners including teacher and SNA unions over the last two weeks."

It said the Minister for Education Norma Foley and her officials had listened closely to the issues raised..."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0119/1190583-sna-teachers/

lawred2 · 19-01-2021 11:13PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Given all the time that's been lost would the mid term not be abandoned?

lol

JMNolan · 19-01-2021 11:15PM

Does anyone know what counter plans the teachers unions put forward? I presume the answer isn't none as that would be just heartless.

billy_beckham · 19-01-2021 11:16PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Everyone still working so that's unlikely. They can pull 2 contingency days but there haven't been missed school days to account for this as delayed return after Xmas was an extension of the holidays.

Not saying that right or wrong but that wud be the situation I think.

Well in the interest of fairness the holiday "extension" of the 6th/7th & 8th should result in a holiday contraction somewhere...

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 19-01-2021 11:17PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Well in the interest of fairness the holiday "extension" of the 6th/7th & 8th should result in a holiday contraction somewhere...

True but don't think there's a provision for that anywhere

Wombatman · 19-01-2021 11:18PM

Norma announced two reopening's that didn't happen. Pretty dismal really. Giving parents and students false hope.

billy_beckham · 19-01-2021 11:18PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

True but don't think there's a provision for that anywhere

But there is a provision to extend?

wirelessdude01 · 19-01-2021 11:19PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Nearly laughed when I read this. Nearly.

"In a statement, the department said it was "regrettable that after unprecedented engagement with primary and special education stakeholders, a shared objective that would allow children with special educational needs return to in-school learning, could not be reached".

The department said its efforts had included consistent, frequent and ongoing engagement at ministerial and official level with education partners including teacher and SNA unions over the last two weeks."

It said the Minister for Education Norma Foley and her officials had listened closely to the issues raised..."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0119/1190583-sna-teachers/

If you knew what I know about what form those negotiations took and the behaviour and attitude of the two ladies, especially this morning then you'd be laughing.

Murple · 19-01-2021 11:19PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I said earlier I expect full reopening on Feb 22nd, Monday after midterm.

Or possibly instruction that mid term should be brought forward a week and back on the 15th.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 19-01-2021 11:20PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

But there is a provision to extend?

There must be cos they did it

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01