Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

KrustyUCC

khalessi wrote: »

well if the rumours are true, being an hour late for an organised meeting, staying 5 minutes then leaving in a rude manner is unprecedented.

That's shocking and very unprofessional

Icyseanfitz

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Children with special or additional needs cannot be adequately homeschooled that is why there was an attempt to get them back to school earlier.

We're the only country in Europe not providing
in-school education to these children
That says it all.

Its an international disgrace that our government haven't any remote plan created for any type of schools in the 10months or so they had to create one, instead they've sat on their asses in the hopes that individual schools would yet again step forward and solve their problems for them in a once in a lifetime crisis. And the cherry on top is using kids with special needs as a political chess piece, revolting.

km79

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Children with special or additional needs cannot be adequately homeschooled that is why there was an attempt to get them back to school earlier.

We're the only country in Europe not providing
in-school education to these children
That says it all.

It does indeed
Education (and health ) have been underfunded for years and undervalued . Take a look at who the govt decided to appoint as Minister in the midst of the pandemic .
That tells you how much they valued education and where it was on their priority list .
So here we are

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

well if the rumours are true, being an hour late for an organised meeting, staying 5 minutes then leaving in a rude manner is unprecedented.

This mornings behaviour was even worse.

WicklaBlaa

km79 wrote: »

It does indeed
Education (and health ) have been underfunded for years and undervalued . Take a look at who the govt decided to appoint as Minister in the midst of the pandemic .
That tells you how much they valued education and where it was on their priority list .
So here we are

I dont think the underfunding cuts it this time round.

The argument about class sizes, small buildings. Etc etc.... Classes would have been much smaller if reopened yesterday. Capacity a non issue.

mirrorwall14

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This mornings behaviour was even worse.

Ah do tell.....

History Queen

khalessi wrote: »

well if the rumours are true, being an hour late for an organised meeting, staying 5 minutes then leaving in a rude manner is unprecedented.

Seemingly that isn't true. So I heard from a union colleague. She did turn up late to a meeting because another meeting ran over time but she did stay for the duration. Hard to know.

WicklaBlaa

Why are we the only country in Europe not providing education in schools to these children?

I really don't get it....

km79

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

I dont think the underfunding cuts it this time round.

The argument about class sizes, small buildings. Etc etc.... Classes would have been much smaller if reopened yesterday. Capacity a non issue.

Access to devices , digital technology etc would sure have helped
As would a national remote learning plan for all students

Icyseanfitz

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This mornings behaviour was even worse.

Put us out of our misery :pac:

WicklaBlaa

km79 wrote: »

Access to devices , digital technology etc would sure have helped
As would a national remote learning plan for all students

But as parents with children with additional needs are arguing, the remote working doesn't work for them. They need in class learning and support. And are receiving it in all other European countries.....

Midnight Sundance

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This mornings behaviour was even worse.

How? What happened?

Larsso30

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Why are we the only country in Europe not providing education in schools to these children?

I really don't get it....

Frightening fact that is for me.

Stateofyou

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

There’s the press release. Anyone get the feeling that she thinks teachers and SNAs are bold children?

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2021-press-releases/PR21-01-19a.html

I would bet they spent more time writing this spin document than they did planning for special schools/remote learning.

khalessi

https://twitter.com/NEUnion/status/1351592146856529920

This is the information from UK and there is a study out this week from Montreal and schools in Netherlands also have ing difficulties with spread of Covid in schools. Scotland and Germany have closed schools and I saw an article about Denmark having the same issues and the cases in NI are terrible.

This wave is proving difficult all around the world and a mask is not going to be enough this time around

This can be solved just needs a level head to lead the conversation unfortunately Norma isn't it.

am_zarathustra

km79 wrote: »

It does indeed
Education (and health ) have been underfunded for years and undervalued . Take a look at who the govt decided to appoint as Minister in the midst of the pandemic .
That tells you how much they valued education and where it was on their priority list .
So here we are

Our shambolic investment in special care needs of students is absolutely at the heart of this. In other jurisdictions far more money is allowed per capita so they have things like hot running water, and buildings that aren't prefabs. If we had a suffociant staff to student ratio in special centres this would also be far easier. We spend below the OECD average on eduction.......per capita we are the 4th richest country in the world.

I hope all the people on their soap boxes remember this when unions and teachers are trying to get extra resources, or more that 2 psychological reports per year for a school, or when they are asking to decrease staff student ratio or for respite care time to be increase or for proper changing areas for when SNAs and teachers are performing personal care.

Remember how angry you are about special needs provision in the next elections and ask TDs at the door to address these issues instead of shouting at teachers who've been pointing these issues out for years

Stateofyou

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

I dont think the underfunding cuts it this time round.

The argument about class sizes, small buildings. Etc etc.... Classes would have been much smaller if reopened yesterday. Capacity a non issue.

But lack of social distancing, children not wearing masks, track and trace system not working as it should, more virulent strain and among children, lack of ventilation = open windows and cold rooms, staffing issues, the fact all in for those students doesn't work for all families either, potentially lack of hospital beds if falling ill.. etc. all still issues.

WicklaBlaa

am_zarathustra wrote: »

In other jurisdictions far more money is allowed per capita so they have things like jot running water, and buildings that aren't prefabs. If we had a suffciant staff to student ratio in special centres this would also be far easier.

I hope all the people on their soap boxes remember this when unions and teachers are trying to get extra resources, or more that 2 psychological reports per year for a school, or when they are asking to decrease staff student ratio or for respite care time to be increase or for proper changing areas for when SNAs and teachers are performing personal care.

But why is this relevant to reopening tomorrow?

Student / staff ratios would be way down and capacity in buildings a non-issue.

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This mornings behaviour was even worse.

Tell us. Pleeeeeease

WicklaBlaa

Stateofyou wrote: »

But lack of social distancing, children not wearing masks, track and trace system not working as it should, more virulent strain and among children, lack of ventilation = open windows and cold rooms, staffing issues, the fact all in for those students doesn't work for all families either, potentially lack of hospital beds if falling ill.. etc. all still issues.

But all other European countries have these issues and they are providing education in schools to children with additional needs.
So why is Ireland different?

Ireland has already fallen outside top 10 countries regarding positivity rates, 3 other European countries remain in it.

BonsaiKitten

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

But why is this relevant to reopening tomorrow?

Student / staff ratios would be way down and capacity in buildings a non-issue.

Eh? Special schools were to do a staggered return, that's true. However special classes were to return en masse so no additional distancing there. Mainstream SET...who the feck knows, schools seemed to have to make it up as they went along. Depending on the school there could be huge numbers in.

Bananaleaf

Stateofyou wrote: »

I would bet they spent more time writing this spin document than they did planning for special schools/remote learning.

Shows how quick they can get a document together when it suits them indeed

BonsaiKitten

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Shows how quick they can get a document together when it suits them indeed

I feel like they had a lot of that drafted and ready to go tbh, they got it together so quickly. Maybe there's a Plan B document somewhere called "Nah Nah Ne Nah Nah, We Won"?

Hate thinking of it as winning and losing but I'm sure that's how Norma and co see it.

Stateofyou

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

But all other European countries have these issues and they are providing education in schools to children with additional needs.
So why is Ireland different?

Ireland has already fallen outside top 10 countries regarding positivity rates, 3 other European countries remain in it.

What is your source saying all other European countries are providing education in schools to sn children?

Does having the worst covid stats in the world ring any bells? Numerous medical experts including Mike Ryan of WHO have all said schools are important and should be open except in times of high community transmission. Now there are new virulent strains coming through. We need new/additional safety measures and according to experts we need to wait first until the virus is controlled.

And maybe Ireland is different because we have an especially inept DES/Minister for Education who can't seem to roll up their sleeves and put the hard work in to make these plans and provide the necessary resources and notice.

History Queen

The UK have special schools open but not to all students, and not all special schools are open. I'm not sure what the criteria for opening/attending is, does anyone know?

https://www.bbc.com/news/disability-55583076

The HorsesMouth

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Why are we the only country in Europe not providing education in schools to these children?

I really don't get it....

I genuinely think it's because we had the most hysterical/scaremongering media led reaction in Europe. People remark on it if they come here from abroad.

And the constant schools are safe narrative has actually done more harm. You cannot say anywhere is safe or unsafe. The fact is you could walk into a crowd of 1000 people and not get covid same way you could catch it just by meeting 1 person for coffee.
A more upfront and honest assessment would have been helpful. There is no such thing as fully safe environments..i.e supermarkets, playgrounds, schools, offices. But the risk is low and that should have been the way it should have gone..a bit of honesty.

Bananaleaf

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I feel like they had a lot of that drafted and ready to go tbh, they got it together so quickly. Maybe there's a Plan B document somewhere called "Nah Nah Ne Nah Nah, We Won"?

Hate thinking of it as winning and losing but I'm sure that's how Norma and co see it.

Lol. In the same filing cabinet as the "We never said they were safe" document.

political analyst

Why couldn't the special schools re-open for the benefit of children who have no serious underlying health problems but are regressing because of the closure of those schools while those children who would not survive if they are infected stay at home?

downthemiddle

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I feel like they had a lot of that drafted and ready to go tbh, they got it together so quickly. Maybe there's a Plan B document somewhere called "Nah Nah Ne Nah Nah, We Won"?

Hate thinking of it as winning and losing but I'm sure that's how Norma and co see it.

Unfortunately we are now into different levels of losing.

am_zarathustra

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

But why is this relevant to reopening tomorrow?

Student / staff ratios would be way down and capacity in buildings a non-issue.

The buildings are not fit for purpose. The level of personal and physical care required by students in this catagory is akin to someone in a nursing home or hospital setting. The resources available to staff need to be comparible to manage infection risk, difficult to do at the best of times but impossible in a poorly ventilated room, often decades old without readily available sanitation equipment (hot and cold running water). Our educational infrastructure has not been sufficiiantly updated in years.

On the continent specials needs classes/buildings would be more akin to the new, purpose-built facilities we are now rolling out. I saw one in germany on an education trip a 15 years ago, we still have nothing of this standard anywhere in the country today. The new centres are a vast improvement if 30 years after other countries but there are so few in the country currently. The places we send special needs kids would turn your stomach, as a society we should be ashamed and my only hope for this mess is that it will draw attention to the chronic underfunding and understaffing of this vital service.

I will also say that had SETs, SNAs, principals and the unions been asked to come up with a solution together shortly after Christmas I have no doubt they could have. It's a very complicated sector, far more ask than main stream education. The nuance of individual cases would be insane. It would have taken a bit of time, but with everyone working together and a sense of having the time and the space to air concerns and find work arounds it was probably doable. This is not what happened. I'd put quiet a few current ministers in Norma's boots and I think there would have been a very different outcome and consensus could have been reached. The political flak she got is the reason that Forsa and the INTO were even asked back in to discuss it. This is ham fisted polictical maneuvering at the expense of vulnerable children and the adults falling for this, and blaming the people on the ground while not holding those at the top responsible should be ashamed of themselves. You are a part of a chess board, sad as that is for adults choosing to be there, Norma and the department have forced the very children we should protect on with you