Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

the corpo · 08-01-2021 4:33pm

Norma has told the unions that not returning for three days a week puts the Leaving Cert in jeopardy and we might need a Plan B...

**** **** ****
Assume that was me swearing. There should have been a Plan B (and C, D etc.) in preparation since the first lockdown. Horrendous failure of leadership

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/norma-foley-casts-doubt-over-leaving-cert-unless-students-return-to-school-39946927.html

jrosen · 08-01-2021 4:35pm

We are so past plan B

Inviere · 08-01-2021 4:38pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

Having previously worked in the area , given where we are now as a country and the fact that transmission rates in special schools has been higher than other educational settings I can’t understand how in good conscience anyone could stand over them being a safe environment for children or staff. That is not in any way to detract from the needs of the children or families involved.

Totally agree. It's actually truly bizarre how there seems to be active support for putting SEN students in such harms way like this. Of course, staying out of school raises other issues, and that's where we need to step up for them, but to allow them all to mix and risk potentially their very lives....simply because they've a right to do? I have to be missing something here...

Eoinbmw · 08-01-2021 4:42pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

Having previously worked in the area , given where we are now as a country and the fact that transmission rates in special schools has been higher than other educational settings I can’t understand how in good conscience anyone could stand over them being a safe environment for children or staff. That is not in any way to detract from the needs of the children or families involved.

Ive seen it mentioned here a few times now where are you getting your information on transmission rates from I'm genuinely curious?

jayo76 · 08-01-2021 4:43pm

ASTI school steward in our place this year, the amount of txts, whatsapps I had within a couple of hours of the announcement on Wednesday from the usual suspects to complain how the ASTI does nothing for them, is it going to really allow this to happen, had the ASTI any interest in protecting teachers.

It really is laughable and unbelievable the amount of members who play no active role or have any interest until they feel under threat themselves, ignore or find ways of fudging various Union directives over the years to boost their own CV's, cosy up to management but then shout the loudest when they have something to worry them.

I don't always agree with ASTI policy but if I don't I'l voice that at my branch or school meetings instead of throwing my hands in the air wondering what my Union does for me. I have heard people very vocally giving out also about Branch Secretaries, Chairpeople and how they have performed in the current pandemic. These people are filling these roles voluntarily, trying to teach, manage family life and deal with the impacts of this Pandemic the same as all other teachers, they aren't perfect but are genuinely trying their best to perform a duty for all members.

Eoinbmw · 08-01-2021 4:43pm

Inviere wrote: »

Totally agree. It's actually truly bizarre how there seems to be active support for putting SEN students in such harms way like this. Of course, staying out of school raises other issues, and that's where we need to step up for them, but to allow them all to mix and risk potentially their very lives....simply because they've a right to do? I have to be missing something here...

Spend a few days with a special needs child who is suffeeing and you'll figure it out!

penny piper · 08-01-2021 4:44pm

Norma Foley knows full well the difficulties that are facing students/teachers regarding this years Leaving Cert...I wonder if she/the government spent more time finding a solution like other countries have already and sorted this problem out.....The truth of the matter is no one knows when school will restart ...new strain of virus/continuous lockdown etc....from the article in today's independent Ms.Foley (regarding school return or no leaving cert for students) is still finding it difficult to accept that school for students/teachers/staff is still not feasable during these times..

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 4:49pm

jrosen wrote: »

Email from our primary school teacher, very detailed. I have mentioned before how organized and tech knowledgeable he seems to be. Hie plan to me seems very manageable and very flexible. I think it will work for all families.
My son is very excited.

Can you give us an outline of what he is doing in a week?

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 08-01-2021 4:52pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

My kids love their teachers, one in particular is very close to hers. It would be a shame to not keep a connection there at all. I think she would actually be quite upset about it.

There will be a connection to teachers during some kind of live lesson?

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 4:55pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Great to see some innovative thinking from schools. Unfortunately ours is asking parents to come into the school on Monday to collect books and the kids just carry on as normal.

What do you mean "carry on as normal"?

Inviere · 08-01-2021 4:55pm

Eoinbmw wrote: »

Spend a few days with a special needs child who is suffeeing and you'll figure it out!

Who's to say I haven't? You don't feel a special needs child who contract Covid won't suffer far more potentially ending up in hospital, infecting family members etc? There's two evils here, one is far more risky than the other.

hotmail.com · 08-01-2021 5:00pm

the corpo wrote: »

Norma has told the unions that not returning for three days a week puts the Leaving Cert in jeopardy and we might need a Plan B...

**** **** ****
Assume that was me swearing. There should have been a Plan B (and C, D etc.) in preparation since the first lockdown. Horrendous failure of leadership

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/norma-foley-casts-doubt-over-leaving-cert-unless-students-return-to-school-39946927.html

Plan B was 3 days a week. This was rejected.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 5:01pm

the corpo wrote: »

Norma has told the unions that not returning for three days a week puts the Leaving Cert in jeopardy and we might need a Plan B...

**** **** ****
Assume that was me swearing. There should have been a Plan B (and C, D etc.) in preparation since the first lockdown. Horrendous failure of leadership

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/norma-foley-casts-doubt-over-leaving-cert-unless-students-return-to-school-39946927.html

She is doubling down with throwing teachers under the bus. The lack of a plans, b, c d and so on is an abject failure of the department of which she is the figure head.

khalessi · 08-01-2021 5:03pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Plan B was 3 days a week. This was rejected.

It isn't a plan if no one bar herself was consulted.

mirrorwall14 · 08-01-2021 5:04pm

Teach30 wrote: »

Please be mindful that teachers home internet may be terrible. Mine is and so limits massively live teaching and uploading long videos. I’ve asked to go into the school building so that I can do some lives. It’s not that I dont want to, I just can’t!

Rural Ireland broadband scheme very poor and I’m not currently in position to sign up for another bill. Last time I used my mobile data and ended up with a bill for over €280 for two weeks.

Fingers crossed the school caretaker will allow access to school for me.

Just one thing I didn’t realise last time around, are you rendering and reducing the quality of the videos before you attempt to upload? If you want to PM I can help if possible. Basically I was uploading high quality videos from my phone without realising those files are enormous and not necessary to get the same effect. I’m using handbrake (free program) to reduce the file sizes now before upload. Alternatively using loom or a similar platform will automatically do that for you and give you a link to share to students

downthemiddle · 08-01-2021 5:04pm

Triangle wrote: »

I feel that the next ps pay increase should be balanced in favor of the sectors that have positively helped during the pandemic I. E. HSE front line, gardai and army (I'm sure there's others out there too)
But the fact that they take on new tasks and risks without complaint should be applauded and rewarded.

Congratulations. You managed to avoid mentioning the PUP.

mirrorwall14 · 08-01-2021 5:05pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Plan B was 3 days a week. This was rejected.

Plan B should never have been three days a week. Plan B should have been we will assess the situation every Wednesday with a view to putting the LCs back in classrooms as soon as possible. Every teacher, parent and student in the country wants those kids back in ASAP. Once we are sure the health service isn’t being overwhelmed. Schools focus on getting the whole lot on line this week. We will reevaluate on Wednesday getting the LCs in on the 18th. That should have been the plan

Her plan was stupid. To the extreme. To the level of complete incompetency

jrosen · 08-01-2021 5:07pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Can you give us an outline of what he is doing in a week?

Absolutely
Weekly work will be posted on Sunday to give everyone a chance to look over and make plans to work around their own schedule.
Daily posts breaking down the work for the kids into more attainable goals
Post links and resources
Kids have to submit their work at the end of each school day

Zoom will be used over the next couple of weeks, live lessons with smaller groups not the whole class. Time for kids to ask questions.

A steady stream of work to keep some routine is the aim.

I personally dont think we could ask for more.

khalessi · 08-01-2021 5:08pm

Latest news

https://twitter.com/WhispersNewsLTD/status/1347525460654235648

BonsaiKitten · 08-01-2021 5:09pm

Bit off topic maybe but to any primary class teachers out there, apparently the final year B.Eds are a bit stuck. A lot of schools have dropped students due to start placement on Monday and they're looking for teachers willing to let them help with remote learning. If you're interested in taking one on - I love mentoring students so with the blessing of my principal, I'm going to take one - get in touch with Marino.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 5:13pm

jrosen wrote: »

Absolutely
Weekly work will be posted on Sunday to give everyone a chance to look over and make plans to work around their own schedule.
Daily posts breaking down the work for the kids into more attainable goals
Post links and resources
Kids have to submit their work at the end of each school day

Zoom will be used over the next couple of weeks, live lessons with smaller groups not the whole class. Time for kids to ask questions.

A steady stream of work to keep some routine is the aim.

I personally dont think we could ask for more.

Other than the live zoom stuff that is pretty much what I did the last time. I did do prerecorded stuff instead of live zoom.

I did do zoom check-ins but they were purely social.

lulublue22 · 08-01-2021 5:14pm

Eoinbmw wrote: »

Ive seen it mentioned here a few times now where are you getting your information on transmission rates from I'm genuinely curious?

It was cited in an interview during the week. It is also one of the reasons INTO is looking for increased protective measures for staff in this area prior to the reopening of special ed. There is no break down of numbers according to educational setting that I can see in the general reporting of numbers.

khalessi · 08-01-2021 5:16pm

Handy Hack for PS4 or XBox users
https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/1347499945427873793

eviltwin · 08-01-2021 5:20pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What do you mean "carry on as normal"?

They have to continue where they left off in class. There is no workaround due to current restrictions.

byhookorbycrook · 08-01-2021 5:23pm

I don't see the issue with asking parents to collect books?I think most parents would prefer to have the physical book/exercise in front of them instead of on a screen or having to printing it out. Other parents would be complaining the books they bought weren't used , so it's damned if you do...

Not every child can access a device or even if they can, not for live lessons at the time, so pre-recorded clips give all of the children who can get to a device at some stage of the day a chance. Those children who can't access a device at all can still work on in their books, but do miss out on the content taught.

And Zoom-socially wise, I agree parents should do that between themselves.

History Queen · 08-01-2021 5:31pm

Andy Pike with Forsa is talking very positively about trying to find solutions for SEN students on Newstalk at the moment.

hesaidshesaid · 08-01-2021 5:32pm

khalessi wrote: »

Handy Hack for PS4 or XBox users
https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/1347499945427873793

Does anyone know if this works for Seesaw? Thanks in advance

hesaidshesaid · 08-01-2021 5:34pm

eviltwin wrote: »

They have to continue where they left off in class. There is no workaround due to current restrictions.

Hi there, all schools have to continue where they left off in class. 'Continuity of learning' is a requirement from the DES.

Is your child getting any online support? Zoom calls? Seesaw etc?

eviltwin · 08-01-2021 5:38pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I don't see the issue with asking parents to collect books?I think most parents would prefer to have the physical book/exercise in front of them instead of on a screen or having to printing it out. Other parents would be complaining the books they bought weren't used , so it's damned if you do...

Not every child can access a device or even if they can, not for live lessons at the time, so pre-recorded clips give all of the children who can get to a device at some stage of the day a chance. Those children who can't access a device at all can still work on in their books, but do miss out on the content taught.

And Zoom-socially wise, I agree parents should do that between themselves.

I’ve no problem collecting and using books. I’m working so I don’t have the time to stick to the schedule, we will do what we can but the teacher is ambitious to think the kids can continue to cover what they would in class

eviltwin · 08-01-2021 5:43pm

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Hi there, all schools have to continue where they left off in class. 'Continuity of learning' is a requirement from the DES.

Is your child getting any online support? Zoom calls? Seesaw etc?

Teachers can’t really expect parents to cover the same work that would be covered in class? I’m working, it will be a miracle if we cover even the basics. As for Irish, forget it. I wouldn’t have a clue where to start.

suicide_circus · 08-01-2021 5:46pm

Harrowing stuff on Joe Duffy earlier re what no school means for autistic kids and their parents.

Hold My Hand · 08-01-2021 5:47pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Teachers can’t really expect parents to cover the same work that would be covered in class? I’m working, it will be a miracle if we cover even the basics. As for Irish, forget it. I wouldn’t have a clue where to start.

eviltwin, we use Bua na Cainte and I see the company (edco) are making it available for free! It takes a while to download but our pupils love it. I will honestly be hoping parents and children make a good effort to engage but I don’t expect miracles.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 5:48pm

eviltwin wrote: »

They have to continue where they left off in class. There is no workaround due to current restrictions.

What do you mean no work around due to current restrictions? Makes no sense.

lulublue22 · 08-01-2021 5:51pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Teachers can’t really expect parents to cover the same work that would be covered in class? I’m working, it will be a miracle if we cover even the basics. As for Irish, forget it. I wouldn’t have a clue where to start.

Don’t worry teachers understand - it’s the difference between policy and practice. Schools need to follow official guidance class teacher will understand that parents will do their best

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 5:55pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

Don’t worry teachers understand - it’s the difference between policy and practice. Schools need to follow official guidance class teacher will understand that parents will do their best

My mantra to every parent I met today was "no additional pressure from me". Not my job to be creating aggro at home over schooling. Each house environment is unique and each parent and child can only do so much.

BonsaiKitten · 08-01-2021 5:55pm

Hold My Hand wrote: »

eviltwin, we use Bua na Cainte and I see the company (edco) are making it available for free! It takes a while to download but our pupils love it. I will honestly be hoping parents and children make a good effort to engage but I don’t expect miracles.

+1 for Bua na Cainte, I'd encourage any primary parent to download it. Even getting the kids to watch the stories on it is good.

the corpo · 08-01-2021 5:59pm

If anyone hasn't had their blood pressure elevated enough today, the Minister will be on Today FM with Matt Cooper circa 5.15

downthemiddle · 08-01-2021 6:01pm

The Friday email was early today arriving in schools at 16.01.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 6:03pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

The Friday email was early today arriving in schools at 16.01.

Ohh what delights have we been bestowed with?

Endintheclowns · 08-01-2021 6:04pm

Is it just me or did Foley only find out about Covid19 the last few weeks. She's going on like this is a new virus that's caught them unaware. They've had 10 month's to figure this out for christ sake.

downthemiddle · 08-01-2021 6:06pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ohh what delights have we been bestowed with?

"There has been continuous engagement with education partners on this matter since
Monday, building on weekly engagement between partners and public health
throughout the school year. Despite the confirmation by Public Health that schools
remain safe, unfortunately it has not proved possible to get agreement to provide inperson learning for these groups.
In these circumstances, there is no alternative but to pause the limited reopening on
Monday subject to further engagement. As of Monday 11 January students, including
children with special needs, should be provided with a programme of remote learning.
The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences
at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning,
on social and emotional development.
School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs.
School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate
cohort, in relation to state examinations.
It is important to note that NPHET remains of the view that schools are low risk
environments"

They are playing the finger pointing game.

downthemiddle · 08-01-2021 6:08pm

FAO Parents these are the expectations that should be met.

"The following requirements in relation to remote teaching and learning of all
pupils/students are particularly important:
Regular engagement with pupils/students: It is important that teachers
engage with their pupils/students; in a primary setting this should, ideally, be on
a daily basis; in a post-primary context teachers should, as far as possible,
engage with students as per the normal school timetable.
A blend of guided and independent learning tasks/experiences:
Teacherpupil/student engagement should involve both direct teaching by the teacher
and the assignment of independent learning tasks for completion by the
pupils/students.
Appropriate and engaging learning opportunities: Teachers should ensure
that the chosen learning tasks give pupils/students an opportunity to
demonstrate their learning in a clear and concise way.
Learning tasks: The tasks chosen should be specifically aligned to the needs
of the pupil/student, including pupils/students with SEN, and should enable the
teacher to monitor progress and give constructive, developmental feedback to
support the next stages in their learning.
Two-way feedback between home and school: Schools should ensure that
two-way feedback between teachers and parents/guardians and between
teachers and their pupils/students is encouraged and supported. Schools
should provide manageable and accessible opportunities for all pupils/ students
to regularly share samples of their work with the teacher(s) throughout each
week. Teachers should ensure that work received is corrected and relevant
feedback is provided.
Support for pupils/students with SEN: Special education teachers (SETs)
should continue to engage with the pupils/students on their caseloads and
class/subject teachers should differentiate teaching and learning in line with
their pupils’/students’ needs to minimise disruption to their learning and
progression.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 6:09pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

"There has been continuous engagement with education partners on this matter since
Monday, building on weekly engagement between partners and public health
throughout the school year. Despite the confirmation by Public Health that schools
remain safe, unfortunately it has not proved possible to get agreement to provide inperson learning for these groups.
In these circumstances, there is no alternative but to pause the limited reopening on
Monday subject to further engagement. As of Monday 11 January students, including
children with special needs, should be provided with a programme of remote learning.
The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences
at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning,
on social and emotional development.
School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs.
School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate
cohort, in relation to state examinations.
It is important to note that NPHET remains of the view that schools are low risk
environments"

They are playing the finger pointing game.

She is throwing teachers an a profession under the bus. I'd love to know what her former colleagues in Kerry think of her now?

downthemiddle · 08-01-2021 6:12pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

She is throwing teachers an a profession under the bus. I'd love to know what her former colleagues in Kerry think of her now?

Over thirty years in the job without a managerial position clearly makes you the ideal candidate as Minister for Education.

Endintheclowns · 08-01-2021 6:29pm

What this calls for now is calm heads but the minister looks like she wants a us versus them situation to deflect blame for years of underinvestment in education in general but especially the special needs school sector.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 6:30pm

See the interview with Norma was prerecorded. Guessing she didn't want to be subjected to any questions and criticism that would have been texted in.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 6:32pm

Endintheclowns wrote: »

What this calls for now is calm heads but the minister looks like she wants a us versus them situation to deflect blame for years of underinvestment in education in general but especially the special needs school sector.

She is trying to position teachers as the ones denying the pupils of their "traditional" leaving cert.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 08-01-2021 6:32pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

Over thirty years in the job without a managerial position clearly makes you the ideal candidate as Minister for Education.

I'd be slower to trust someone who is in management tbh

Tho Norma might be the exception to prove the rule

BonsaiKitten · 08-01-2021 6:32pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

FAO Parents these are the expectations that should be met.

Not a dig at you here but I'd honestly love to know if any parent got something useful from those guidelines. So feckin woolly.

wirelessdude01 · 08-01-2021 6:35pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Not a dig at you here but I'd honestly love to know if any parent got something useful from those guidelines. So feckin woolly.

So open to different interpretation depending on what way you want to view things.

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01