Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 4:05pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Normally I might agree with you, but not in the case of Iran. Their reprehensible and disgusting penchant for holding western women hostage means they get no sympathy from me. Uncivilised behaviour deserves no sympathy for payment in kind.

It's curious that no foreigner ever arrested in Iran is spy. I mean no spies ever have a cover job. Though, I agree they should be afforded the same rights as spies captured in America would be treated.

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 4:12pm

Doctor Roast wrote: »

They've retaliated to nearly every provocation so far... From seized tankers, to drones in their airspace to assassinations of their top brass... And when they do the west plays the victim

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

Doctor Roast · 02-12-2020 5:08pm

nacho libre wrote: »

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

If Iran did a quarter of what it's after enduring to any Western nation it would be considered an act of war... For a country that's supposedly the world's no 1 enemy they suffer an awful lot of provocations and I'd bet the farm if they retaliated proportionately the west would be up in arms and full of I told you so's... The truth is they don't want a war with Iran, Iran is no Iraq or Syria militarily and the conflict would quickly snowball out of control across the region

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 5:18pm

Doctor Roast wrote: »

If Iran did a quarter of what it's after enduring to any Western nation it would be considered an act of war... For a country that's supposedly the world's no 1 enemy that suffer an awful lot of provocations

It undermines the propaganda about the mad mullahs. Could it be they are in fact rational actors who value their own survival?

Doctor Roast · 02-12-2020 5:26pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It undermines the propaganda about the mad mullahs. Could it be they are in fact rational actors who value their own survival?

What propaganda? Be more specific so I can see if it justifies assassinations,sanctions, violations of sovereignty and all round bully boy behaviour..

Ardillaun · 02-12-2020 6:17pm

nacho libre wrote: »

, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.

Job 1 for the Iranian govt is relief of US sanctions - the tit for tat with Israel is much less important - so the crucial thing for them is to control their own war hawks until Biden gets in. If they can’t make headway with Biden they will have to move closer to China to keep the regime going which is definitely not the preferred option.

jmreire · 02-12-2020 7:37pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It undermines the propaganda about the Presidentthe mad mullahs. Could it be they are in fact rational actors who value their own survival?

Like all dictatorial ( and especially religious ones) states, their own personal survival is numero uno and Iran is no exception.... if it was otherwise, they would have been replaced a long time ago by a more democratic system. In the widespread protests which took place in November 2019, ( which were triggered by an increase in fuel prices of 50%, and the imposition of a rationing system. The increase was supposedly to give more to the poor.) The death toll was in excess of 1'000. The Nrs vary from between 800 and 1'500 unarmed protesters shot dead on the orders of the President.

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 9:52pm

jmreire wrote: »

Like all dictatorial Presidentthe ( and especially religious ones) states, their own personal survival is numero uno and Iran is no exception.... if it was otherwise,

Yes. If it was otherwise they'd have gone to war with Israel and the Great Satan, and got the Martyrdom they so crave because they are Mad Mullahs, afterall.

Cheerful Spring2 · 02-12-2020 11:48pm

nacho libre wrote: »

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

With Trump's threats to destroy culture sites inside Iran, the fact the fired mutiple ballistic missiles at a US/ Iraqi military base they did take the step many people predicted would not happen

Trump accepted material US losses here. Trump. backed off, not Iran remember his speeches . Iran was prepared to go to war and had no-way of knowing what Trump reaction would be to ballistic missiles landing and exploding inside the US operated base that night!

Trump has lost the election and Biden likely to be more accepting of Iran. If Iran going to down something reactionary, it'll be before Jan. It's doubtful they will strike out with Biden as president it will sour any future nuclear deal talks.

Iran knows a strike carries a real chance of war breaking out. Trump has nothing to lose now he's not got his extra 4 years. Netanyahu is desperate and would drag Israel into a new war, if Iran strikes them. The scientist one man is he worth going to war over?

jmreire · 02-12-2020 11:59pm

nacho libre wrote: »

Yes. If it was otherwise they'd have gone to war with Israel and the Great Satan, and got the Martyrdom they so crave because they are Mad Mullahs, afterall.

Quite incredible though it may seem, the ones who organise the suicide vest, and its wearer, show a remarkable lack of eagerness in achieving martyrdom and by definition Heaven themselves, despite extolling all of its benefits to the part Faithfull..:rolleyes:

03-12-2020 12:07am

nacho libre wrote: »

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

This wasn't a small response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martyr_Soleimani

The American response to it was though. I think Trump just didn't want a war.

03-12-2020 12:08am

jmreire wrote: »

Quite incredible though it may seem, the ones who organise the suicide vest, and its wearer, show a remarkable lack of eagerness in achieving martyrdom and by definition Heaven themselves, despite extolling all of its benefits to the part Faithfull..:rolleyes:

You will need to put that in English.

jmreire · 03-12-2020 1:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

You will need to put that in English.

Its a bit sarcastic all right. :rolleyes:...Basically it means, "Dont do what I do, do what I tell you to do". In Jihad, Muslims are taught that Martyrdom is the quickest and surest way to Paradise. So it would be logical to assume that the very same people who preach this, would be first in line to take advantage of it. But no, they seem to prefer to suffer on in this life while encouraging others along the path of Martyrdom :cool:

Gatling · 03-12-2020 2:11am

jmreire wrote: »

Its a bit sarcastic all right. :rolleyes:...Basically it means, "Do what I tell you to do, not what I do". In Jihad, Muslims are taught that Martyrdom is the quickest and surest way to Paradise. So it would be logical to assume that the very same people who preach this, would be first in line to take advantage of it. But no, they seem to prefer to suffer on in this life while encouraging others along the path of Martyrdom :cool:

Do you ever notice on these type of threads how these Arab countries need tin pot dictatorships to keep them under control , crying about Western democracies while living and posting from Western democracy.

On your other point it's always the same my followers god willed it , please volunteer your self for jihad or a suicide mission and you will be awarded with your 72 Virgins .
But never them , always some poor sod or a scared child forced to do a Mulla's bidding

the purple tin · 03-12-2020 11:42am

jmreire wrote: »

Its a bit sarcastic all right. :rolleyes:...Basically it means, "Dont do what I do, do what I tell you to do". In Jihad, Muslims are taught that Martyrdom is the quickest and surest way to Paradise. So it would be logical to assume that the very same people who preach this, would be first in line to take advantage of it. But no, they seem to prefer to suffer on in this life while encouraging others along the path of Martyrdom :cool:

A bit like Catholiscism. Money is the root of all evil, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven etc, etc.
Yet the Vatican has God knows how many billions squirrelled away and tons of gold and priceless artworks hoarded in the basement.

ElJeffe · 03-12-2020 11:46am

nacho libre wrote: »

He was well protected. The message to Iran is if we can get the head of your Nuclear research programme we can get anyone.
Iran will make a lot of noises in public about Israel opening the gates of hell, etc, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.

Iran will do what they always do, bitch and moan and get the head hackers to do their dirty work. They know their place and it's well well below Israels level.

rapul · 03-12-2020 2:44pm

ElJeffe wrote: »

Iran will do what they always do, bitch and moan and get the head hackers to do their dirty work. They know their place and it's well well below Israels level.

Wow extremely uneducated post
Great contribution of shoit!

jmreire · 03-12-2020 4:10pm

the purple tin wrote: »

A bit like Catholiscism. Money is the root of all evil, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven etc, etc.
Yet the Vatican has God knows how many billions squirrelled away and tons of gold and priceless artworks hoarded in the basement.

Yes but you forgot to add that Jesus also said that through him, all things are possible,including the rich entering heaven. And do you think that what he said about money being the root of all evil has any merit ? Why do you think that we have so many wars going on at the present time? And they all have one thing in common,,,corruption. Sure the Vatican has lots of priceless art etc. Same as any other state. Would you like to know what the personal fortunes of the Ayatollah ( and his Government ) is worth? Saddam Hussein? Gaddafi? Money hidden deep in the swiss underground vaults, owned by who? et al. Down through the century's , the Vatican has safe guarded these works of art and they can be viewed by anyone, and not hidden away in a private collection, far from the public eye. Like any other state, it costs money to run, and support it's work world wide, so yes it has its own banking system. And its all perfectly legal and above board.

Odhinn · 03-12-2020 4:38pm

jmreire wrote: »

Yes but you forgot to add that Jesus also said that through him, all things are possible,including the rich entering heaven. And do you think that what he said about money being the root of all evil has any merit ? Why do you think that we have so many wars going on at the present time? And they all have one thing in common,,,corruption. Sure the Vatican has lots of priceless art etc. Same as any other state. Would you like to know what the personal fortunes of the Ayatollah ( and his Government ) is worth? Saddam Hussein? Gaddafi? Money hidden deep in the swiss underground vaults, owned by who? et al. Down through the century's , the Vatican has safe guarded these works of art and they can be viewed by anyone, and not hidden away in a private collection, far from the public eye. Like any other state, it costs money to run, and support it's work world wide, so yes it has its own banking system. And its all perfectly legal and above board.

*cough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_the_Works_of_Religion

Donald Trump · 03-12-2020 5:44pm

the purple tin wrote: »

A bit like Catholiscism. Money is the root of all evil, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven etc, etc.
Yet the Vatican has God knows how many billions squirrelled away and tons of gold and priceless artworks hoarded in the basement.

It is not the possession of valuables that is the root of a lot of bad things, but the things that are done in order to acquire it for to increase wealth and have more money for spending.

For example, if some old archaeological chalice had been dug up in Ireland 100 years ago and was in private possession and came to auction now and the state spend a few million buying it for safekeeping then that is not in itself a bad thing.

If there is a historical painting worth 100m then I'd far rather that the Vatican owned it than Mark Zuckerberg or Vladimir Putin.

I don't understand people's lack of imagination when they have the default go-to of just making some remark about Catholicism. They must delude themselves into thinking it makes them sound smart.

nacho libre · 03-12-2020 6:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This wasn't a small response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martyr_Soleimani

The American response to it was though. I think Trump just didn't want a war.

It was hardly like for like though. A base got damaged and no one was killed. Iran got to save face by claiming they exacted a heavy price for the general's murder, and Trump avoided going to war. It suited both sides to leave it at that.

This time the equation is different, the petulant child in the Oval Office might be keen to go to war and leave the incoming administration with the mess. It will be hard for the moderates in Iran to hold sway after this latest murder, but as I have mentioned previously the hardliners, despite all their religious rhetoric , value their own lives too much to seek martyrdom, so they will also be keen to avoid any action that risks war.

Gatling · 03-12-2020 6:23pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It was hardly like for like though. A base got damaged and no one was killed. Iran got to save face by claiming they exacted a heavy price for the general's murder, and Trump avoided going to war. It suited both sides to leave it at that.

What's your opinion on the idea that the missile strike on an unprotected shared base was negotiated and agreed this would happen .

jmreire · 03-12-2020 7:38pm

Odhinn wrote: »

*cough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_the_Works_of_Religion

So there you have it, courtesy of Wikipedia, the complete details of how the Catholic Church financial affairs are managed,Warts and all.

the purple tin · 03-12-2020 8:59pm

jmreire wrote: »

Yes but you forgot to add that Jesus also said that through him, all things are possible,including the rich entering heaven. And do you think that what he said about money being the root of all evil has any merit ? Why do you think that we have so many wars going on at the present time? And they all have one thing in common,,,corruption. Sure the Vatican has lots of priceless art etc. Same as any other state. Would you like to know what the personal fortunes of the Ayatollah ( and his Government ) is worth? Saddam Hussein? Gaddafi? Money hidden deep in the swiss underground vaults, owned by who? et al. Down through the century's , the Vatican has safe guarded these works of art and they can be viewed by anyone, and not hidden away in a private collection, far from the public eye. Like any other state, it costs money to run, and support it's work world wide, so yes it has its own banking system. And its all perfectly legal and above board.

Laundering money for the Mafia. Oh yeah perfectly legal and above board, nothing to see here :rolleyes:

jmreire · 03-12-2020 9:43pm

the purple tin wrote: »

[/B]

Laundering money for the Mafia. Oh yeah perfectly legal and above board, nothing to see here :rolleyes:

And that's something that no other bank in the world does??? All perfectly legal and above board??? There's an earlier comment from you purple tin, about money being the root of all evil, and thats the truest statement ever... where there's money, there's corruption, and that means literally everywhere, even the Vatican. And as for recent Irish Banking history,,,,,,No Comment.:cool:

Gatling · 03-12-2020 11:55pm

jmreire wrote: »

And that's something that no other bank in the world does??? All perfectly legal and above board??? There's an earlier comment from you purple tin, about money being the root of all evil, and thats the truest statement ever... where there's money, there's corruption, and that means literally everywhere, even the Vatican. And as for recent Irish Banking history,,,,,,No Comment.:cool:

The word is creative accounting ,there was a recent news story about a company here made a 100+ million profit and paid zero tax because they claimed to operated at a -€400 loss .
The best accounts in the world command astronomical salaries because they both count peoples money's and find sneaky loop holes to write off taxes

Donald Trump · 04-12-2020 1:25pm

Gatling wrote: »

The word is creative accounting ,there was a recent news story about a company here made a 100+ million profit and paid zero tax because they claimed to operated at a -€400 loss .
The best accounts in the world command astronomical salaries because they both count peoples money's and find sneaky loop holes to write off taxes

You post uses "creative accounting" in the counting of the words :P

nacho libre · 04-12-2020 1:48pm

Gatling wrote: »

What's your opinion on the idea that the missile strike on an unprotected shared base was negotiated and agreed this would happen .

It will be dismissed as absurd, but I think that's exactly what happened. A deal was done in private to de-escalate the situation. As a former head of Mossad said what we have in private is not always what we have in public. In others words enemies can come to an arrangement which suits both sides. Saudia Arabia and Israel have been doing this for years

jmreire · 04-12-2020 2:38pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

It is not the possession of valuables that is the root of a lot of bad things, but the things that are done in order to acquire it for to increase wealth and have more money for spending.

For example, if some old archaeological chalice had been dug up in Ireland 100 years ago and was in private possession and came to auction now and the state spend a few million buying it for safekeeping then that is not in itself a bad thing.

If there is a historical painting worth 100m then I'd far rather that the Vatican owned it than Mark Zuckerberg or Vladimir Putin.

I don't understand people's lack of imagination when they have the default go-to of just making some remark about Catholicism. They must delude themselves into thinking it makes them sound smart.

Exactly !!! Its just an anti Catholic / Christian post. And its a very safe target to attack. Does not even attempt hide it by comparing other banking institutions, and much richer ones than the Vatican.

Cheerful Spring2 · 04-12-2020 3:03pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It will be dismissed as absurd, but I think that's exactly what happened. A deal was done in private to de-escalate the situation. As a former head of Mossad said what we have in private is not always what we have in public. In others words enemies can come to an arrangement which suits both sides. Saudia Arabia and Israel have been doing this for years

That makes little sense when you think back. Trump speeches before the Iranian strike remember. The US had advanced intelligence, they would have pulled out the US soldiers at the base. It’s large spread out base and lot of area to target. Iran went after individual targets. I watched their military briefing and was outlined why they hit the base.

Trump also denied anything all happened to US soldiers remember. It took weeks and weeks for the Pentagon, to say 134 US soldiers suffered brain trauma and blast shock. The base obviously got an early warning the missiles were incoming, and they entered the hardened bunkers on site at the base. There was not enough time for them to clear the base.

Iran had no agreement here. Iran was not targeting the soldiers bunkers that night, if a missile went astray landed on it, there likely be some deaths, but that's what if!

I would emphasize Iran strikes were calculated, in a way to avoid big US soldier deaths I agree there. Iran of course does not want a war with the US, that's madness, and the strikes were not meant for that..

Iran still had no way of knowing Trump response would be to this attack. Iran in my view here gambled, but was fully prepared for round 2 and 3 and what came next that night. When Trump revenge did not materialize, they paused and stopped and that was that. Plus the Ukraine aircraft shootdown probably stopped a second wave of attacks, who can say?

Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

Comments