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Pubs when/will they re-open - the Megathread

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1…6971737475

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    #2102
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Level 3+ would probably work fine. It seemed to being us towards a steady state, at the level it was before level 5. No household visits. Outdoor dining only. Limited numbers in beer gardens only.

    However it came in when numbers were high and hospitals were cancelling procedures all over the country. It wasn't sustainable at that time. Get us back to level 3+ and I'll be happy.


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    #2103
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    So, with Mehole Martin coming out with stuff like this... don't expect non-food pubs to open before the Summer time IMO!


    https://www.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-says-gatherings-with-alcohol-led-to-spikes-in-covid-19-in-autumn-39779850.html


    the above translated means: No alcohol only pubs will be opened after Dec. 1st.


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    #2104
    Pauliedragon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    SB71 wrote: »
    Ireland as it stands has the 3rd lowest 14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 cases per 100,000 in all of Europe yet these absolute ghouls in NPHET want us to continue in lockdown without offering up a shred of evidence why society should not be opened with the correct safety protocols in place.

    I can't stand this spineless government, but ill have some respect for them if they ignore these unelected ghouls in NPHET and go to level 2,sadly cant see it happening.


    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
    I agree with you but while our rates are low the issue with us is our health system is probably the worst equipped to deal with due to decades of incompetence and the government are hardly going to admit that publicly which is why we have to be more cautious than other countries. Our current and our former leader were both health ministers, failed on both counts yet we give them a promotion. Work that out. We have one of the lowest if not the lowest rate of ICU beds in Europe so we have to be more careful than other countries.


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    #2105
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    However it came in when numbers were high and hospitals were cancelling procedures all over the country. It wasn't sustainable at that time. Get us back to level 3+ and I'll be happy.

    Amazing how freely people give up any liberty/rights they're entitled to and welcome having their lives restricted to such a degree....
    I truly wonder what sort of country we have now...


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    #2106
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Pauliedragon wrote: »
    We have one of the lowest if not the lowest rate of ICU beds in Europe so we have to be more careful than other countries.

    Wasn't that the reason for the first and second lockdowns, increase ICU beds... 8 months = 0 new ICU beds?


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    #2107
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Level 3+ would probably work fine. It seemed to being us towards a steady state, at the level it was before level 5. No household visits. Outdoor dining only. Limited numbers in beer gardens only.

    However it came in when numbers were high and hospitals were cancelling procedures all over the country. It wasn't sustainable at that time. Get us back to level 3+ and I'll be happy.

    you cant expect people to stand outside drinking in December in this weather it's lunacy,nope level 2 is what what we should have, havent people suffered enough misery this year, you'd want to be inhumane like Tony and friends to deny people some festive cheer with their friends in a warm pub, jaysus can you imagine having to actually live with someone like Holohan :eek:


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    #2108
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    I hope to be sitting in a pub on December 6th watching the Dublin match. One that follows all the guidelines and is being given a shot to co-exist with this virus and operate their business.


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    #2109
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    SB71 wrote: »
    Exactly,all pubs are safe controlled environments, any pubs ive been in everyone was sitting down enjoying the pints there was no up dancing on tables or anything of the sort, but the anti pub brigade would try and say differently, numerous times ive asked for them to produce evidence that pubs were the cause of a spike in cases and im still waiting so i gave up, it's like trying to have a conversation with a brick wall with these people.
    I must've imagined the berlin bar debacle so.

    They can't point to direct evidence because it's not measured, the same way you cannot point to evidence that it's not the case. We do know however that the virus spreads in environments where people mix, and guess what, people mix in pubs.

    Therefore we can safely say that the pubs, when they were opened, were the source of some community transmission. Sometimes the truth is inconvenient.


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    #2110
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I must've imagined the berlin bar debacle so.

    They can't point to direct evidence because it's not measured, the same way you cannot point to evidence that it's not the case. We do know however that the virus spreads in environments where people mix, and guess what, people mix in pubs.

    Therefore we can safely say that the pubs, when they were opened, were the source of some community transmission. Sometimes the truth is inconvenient.

    what all 20 seconds of a video and the subsequent media frenzy which followed,jaysus if this is the way society is going then it's very tragic.

    Therefore i can safely say with absolute clarity,that without anyone offering up any evidence to show that pubs are the cause of a spike in cases that anyone saying otherwise is in effect merley guessing, or to be more blunt talking absolute and utter rubbish.

    Sometimes the truth is hard to take for some with an agenda, this appears to be the case for the anti pub brigade.


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    #2111
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,725 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    The hilarious thing being, under the talked about situation...... Berlin D2 would be allowed open.....


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    #2112
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    The hilarious thing being, under the talked about situation...... Berlin D2 would be allowed open.....

    And why shouldnt it, people calling for this bar to be closed for good over a 20 second video, you'd think they were guilty of genocide or something the way some people were going on, trial by mainstream and social media,all for clicks and likes, everything is sensationalised these days, and you'll always have gullible fools who believe everything they read and see without ever taking a step back and questioning this, sad the way society has gone.

    Even last week that rag Dublin Live had an article saying it was "shocking" when they ratted out a barbers in Tallaght which was having a training day for up and coming barbers,the most trival of things thesedays is deemed as "shocking" or other such drivel, anything to get clicks and likes, the Berlin bar episode was no different.


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    #2113
    newuser99999
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    They can't point to direct evidence because it's not measured, the same way you cannot point to evidence that it's not the case. We do know however that the virus spreads in environments where people mix, and guess what, people mix in pubs.

    Therefore we can safely say that the pubs, when they were opened, were the source of some community transmission. Sometimes the truth is inconvenient.

    This vilification of pubs is so funny. We have been in a lockdown since March now. People are using their weekly shop as a social outing. The amount of people on top of each other in grocery stores / chatting in the aisles / taking the entire family out for the shop must be some source of infection by now.


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    #2114
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,725 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    SB71 wrote: »
    And why shouldnt it, people calling for this bar to be closed for good over a 20 second video, you'd think they were guilty of genocide or something the way some people were going on, trial by mainstream and social media,all for clicks and likes, everything is sensationalised these days, and you'll always have gullible fools who believe everything they read and see without ever taking a step back and questioining this, sad the way society has gone.

    Berlin is a **** hole run by dickheads which should be burned to the ground, but that's not my point. The hypocrites who use it as a stick to beat pubs with will now gloat at the fact that pubs are closed and berlin is open.......


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    #2115
    copeyhagen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    weathers supposed to get v cold, would turn most off sitting outside a pub. I'm guessing that the plan from govt anwyay.

    hopefully its level 3 but with indoor dining and wet pubs (god i hate that expression) allowed


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    #2116
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    Berlin is a **** hole run by dickheads which should be burned to the ground, but that's not my point. The hypocrites who use it as a stick to beat pubs with will now gloat at the fact that pubs are closed and berlin is open.......

    I've never been in this place so cant comment ,appears to be a younger hipster type of place, but regardless it's a licensed premises so i suppose you cant differentiate.


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    #2117
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    newuser99999 wrote: »
    This vilification of pubs is so funny. We have been in a lockdown since March now. People are using their weekly shop as a social outing. The amount of people on top of each other in grocery stores / chatting in the aisles / taking the entire family out for the shop must be some source of infection by now.

    It probably is. Very hard to enforce.

    At the end of the day's its about mixing. Certain people see the restrictions as an instruction to find another way to mix.

    No one said we couldn't have an orgy in the field. See we aren't visiting households.

    Whatever the restrictions people know how they are supposed to behave to limit spread. Behaviour is more important imo than rules.


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    #2118
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    Russman wrote: »
    So social media is ok when it suits a particular agenda but not another ?

    When you make the argument that NPHET are anti pub, did you ever follow it through and wonder why they and any government in the world would want to shut businesses and cause economic devastation ?

    Nice try, but it wasnt just social media i mentioned when referring to Holohan, numerous people ive spoken to about him and NPHET think the same about him, a ghoul who loves infliciting misery on the public.

    Pubs never really shut in some countries, and some of these countries were worse than Ireland who, have suffered worse than most when it comes to pub closures, but i guess that doesnt suit some poeples agenda.


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    #2119
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Russman


    SB71 wrote: »
    Nice try, but it wasnt just social media i mentioned when referring to Holohan, numerous people ive spoken to about him and NPHET think the same about him, a ghoul who loves infliciting misery on the public.

    Pubs never really shut in some countries, and some of these countries were worse than Ireland who, have suffered worse than most when it comes to pub closures, but i guess that doesnt suit some poeples agenda.

    What agenda ? This is the bit i just don't get and nobody seems to be able to come up with one. All they're doing is whining and looking for someone to blame.
    Why would anyone love inflicting misery on the public ? It makes no sense at all.
    Why would a government willingly crash its economy when all governments want to get reelected, and especially when you have some of the headbangers we have in the Dail sniping from the sidelines ?
    It just doesn't stack up.


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    #2120
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Russman wrote: »
    What agenda ? This is the bit i just don't get and nobody seems to be able to come up with one. All they're doing is whining and looking for someone to blame.
    Why would anyone love inflicting misery on the public ? It makes no sense at all.
    Why would a government willingly crash its economy when all governments want to get reelected, and especially when you have some of the headbangers we have in the Dail sniping from the sidelines ?
    It just doesn't stack up.

    Cf every health minister both here and in the UK - smoking brings in 5/6 times in taxes what it costs to treat smoking related illnesses yet James Reilly wanted to see a smoke free country.

    When the health Puritanism takes over the sense goes out the door.


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    #2121
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    To prevent a huge spike and wave 3 in January February we would be as well off forget about all pubs until the new year .
    Open restaurants but no alcohol served would be fair enough for many people .


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    #2122
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    To prevent a huge spike and wave 3 in January February we would be as well off forget about all pubs until the new year .
    Open restaurants but no alcohol served would be fair enough for many people .

    Had a meeting did you ?? Absolutely no way that would be “fair”.


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    #2123
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Russman


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    Cf every health minister both here and in the UK - smoking brings in 5/6 times in taxes what it costs to treat smoking related illnesses yet James Reilly wanted to see a smoke free country.

    When the health Puritanism takes over the sense goes out the door.

    Fair comment.
    Do you really think the the HSE/NPHET/Govt decided to piggy back a global pandemic to attack pubs ? Across almost all of the developed world ?
    Or even just the Irish government, you think they're capable of that kind of plan, knowing how TDs will be getting in the neck from their publican constituents / backers ? I just don't buy it.


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    #2124
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Russman wrote: »
    Fair comment.
    Do you really think the the HSE/NPHET/Govt decided to piggy back a global pandemic to attack pubs ? Across almost all of the developed world ?
    Or even just the Irish government, you think they're capable of that kind of plan, knowing how TDs will be getting in the neck from their publican constituents / backers ? I just don't buy it.

    I think they thought it was their best chance to get their goal achieved, yeah - or why lock everything tighter than a squirrel’s arse but allow people to fly in for an anti alcohol conference??


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    #2125
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    Russman wrote: »
    What agenda ? This is the bit i just don't get and nobody seems to be able to come up with one. All they're doing is whining and looking for someone to blame.
    Why would anyone love inflicting misery on the public ? It makes no sense at all.
    Why would a government willingly crash its economy when all governments want to get reelected, and especially when you have some of the headbangers we have in the Dail sniping from the sidelines ?
    It just doesn't stack up.

    It certainly doesnt make sense at all,but when you've a spinless government who asides from that one time have gone along with literally everything that NPHET have said, instead of having any backbone and challenging them more about this.

    NPHET dont care about the ecomony in the slightest, but the harsh reality is that with constant lock downs every 2 months or thereabouts, the long term impact will be felt for years to come after coronavirus has long gone, the devestation that lock downs will cause will in effect be much much worse than this virus in which over 90% reecover fully will ever be, this isn't the black death we're talking about here,it's a virus where there is a very high percentage of people recover fully from, but back to my original point, if FFG had any backbone they would be challenging NPHET ,and certainly wouldnt be agreeing to draconian lock downs inflicting untold misery on the people of this counrty on the advice of so called medical experts.

    It's very rare you see a large group of medical professionals, scientists,etc draft a white paper calling for NPHET to be disbanded but this is what has happened,so this isnt just people on social media comments section we're talking about here.Professor Jack Lambert is probably more qualified than anyone in NPHET when it comes to infectious diseases, yet he is continually ignored as he has challenged their approach more than once, they dont like dissenting voices in NPHET

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-health-group-calls-for-nphet-to-be-disbanded-39748003.html


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    #2126
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Russman


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    I think they thought it was their best chance to get their goal achieved, yeah - or why lock everything tighter than a squirrel’s arse but allow people to fly in for an anti alcohol conference??

    But as an EU country we were never going to stop travel, especially with the open border.
    And what is their goal ?

    Sometimes I think the simplest answers are the right ones, its about stopping people gathering as much as possible to inhibit spread of this virus. Pubs were part of the low hanging fruit.


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    #2127
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Russman


    SB71 wrote: »
    It certainly doesnt make sense at all,but when you've a spinless government who asides from that one time have gone along with literally everything that NPHET have said, instead of having any backbone and challenging them more about this.

    NPHET dont care about the ecomony in the slightest, but the harsh reality is that with constant lock downs every 2 months or thereabouts, the long term impact will be felt for years to come after coronavirus has long gone, the devestation that lock downs will cause will in effect be much much worse than this virus in which over 90% reecover fully will ever be, this isn't the black death we're talking about here,it's a virus where there is a very high percentage of people recover fully from, but back to my original point, if FFG had any backbone they would be challenging NPHET ,and certainly wouldnt be agreeing to draconian lock downs inflicting untold misery on the people of this counrty on the advice of so called medical experts.

    It's very rare you see a large group of medical professionals, scientists,etc draft a white paper calling for NPHET to be disbanded but this is what has happened,so this isnt just people on social media comments section we're talking about here.Professor Jack Lambert is probably more qualified than anyone in NPHET when it comes to infestious diseases, yet he is ignored.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-health-group-calls-for-nphet-to-be-disbanded-39748003.html

    I agree most people recover from it, but how many need ICU care to do so ? How many need hospital beds to do so ?
    Governments can't take the chance that we wouldn't end up like Lombardy or Belgium or New York. If the worst happened they'd be crucified by people saying they should have planned better. Pretty much every western government has found out that there's no "living with covid" if you want to keep our lives just as they were. We in Europe would never accept the surveillance they have in the far east.

    Anyway, I think we'll agree to disagree.


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    #2128
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    Russman wrote: »
    I agree most people recover from it, but how many need ICU care to do so ? How many need hospital beds to do so ?
    Governments can't take the chance that we wouldn't end up like Lombardy or Belgium or New York. If the worst happened they'd be crucified by people saying they should have planned better. Pretty much every western government has found out that there's no "living with covid" if you want to keep our lives just as they were. We in Europe would never accept the surveillance they have in the far east.

    Anyway, I think we'll agree to disagree.

    OK agree to disagree , at least your a sensible enough poster to debate with unlike some on here.

    have a good day.


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    #2129
    Acosta
    Registered Users Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭Acosta


    Maybe they should open a few pubs in Schools over the Christmas holidays as the virus can't spread there.


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    #2130
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Russman wrote: »
    Fair comment.
    Do you really think the the HSE/NPHET/Govt decided to piggy back a global pandemic to attack pubs ? Across almost all of the developed world ?
    Or even just the Irish government, you think they're capable of that kind of plan, knowing how TDs will be getting in the neck from their publican constituents / backers ? I just don't buy it.

    No, they are very much in favour of keeping Bar/Restaurants only.. starting with their own..

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/foi/frequently-requested-information/dail-bar-and-restaurant-information/



    ending with it too..


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    #2131
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    No I suspect anti-pub campaigners like yourself would like normal people to be confused but no, we’re grand.

    We see what nonsense the health puritans are trying to sell.
    Gervais08 wrote: »
    Regular human contact for those of us who aren’t one of the Waltons is more than “nice to have” - it’s more essential than a five year old doing painting they could do at home.
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Good, glad we cleared that up. Do you support opening night clubs, sports events, concerts and festivals?
    Gervais08 wrote: »
    You didn’t ask me but - clubs, festivals. No
    What is your issue with night clubs?

    That question is posed to any "anti-nightclub campaigners" like yourself. Also if you think pubs should be open do you think any restrictions should be in place? and if these were in place in nightclubs would you have an issue with them opening?


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