Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

bikeman1 · 27-11-2020 12:39AM

speckle wrote: »

Great for the city gastro pubs but a disaster for the local non gastro pubs in the countryside. Yet again a rural city divide. I hope they are taken to court... see no reason why non gastro pubs cannot open outside.. didnt see cases arise from there.

There are plenty of non food pubs right across the towns and cities which would love to be open too. I prefer drinking in them as you don’t have food smells and children in them and it is a far nicer experience IMO.

mirrorwall14 · 27-11-2020 12:42AM

Anything on sport? Gymnastics was allowed in level 3 but not level 5. My five year old won’t do the zoom classes anymore he wants to be back at the gym even with the full social distancing. Cant blame him either

niallo27 · 27-11-2020 12:44AM

Arghus wrote: »

It is comical, but that isn't the argument people are making.

It is though, you want to stay in level 3 lockdown which is one of the harshest lockdowns in Europe to prevent us from needing to go into an even harsher lockdown.

niallo27 · 27-11-2020 12:48AM

Arghus wrote: »

I don't know how ensuring that there's going to be another spike in cases is going to help to get people on side to be honest.

I know there's the argument that people may need the few weeks of relative freedom to relieve the pressure, but, ultimately I don't see how it won't be counterproductive in the end if we go back again into sharply rising cases - and I'm afraid I see no other likely outcome from what we're currently doing.

There is always going be a spike in cases, but the vast majority of cases mean nothing. Do you not understand people actually need to live a little, need something to hope for. Whats in it for the younger generation if you want to give all social activities stopped for another 6 months to a year. Why would they bother stopping house parties and drinking on streets, we are going be in lockdown no matter what we do.

Arghus · 27-11-2020 12:49AM

niallo27 wrote: »

It is though, you want to stay in level 3 lockdown which is one of the harshest lockdowns in Europe to prevent us from needing to go into an even harsher lockdown.

Do you accept that there's a difference between the stringency of restrictions at level 3 rather than level 5?

Plumbthedepths · 27-11-2020 12:50AM

Arghus wrote: »

It is comical, but that isn't the argument people are making.

Continuing harsh restrictions during the most social time of year is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. It would be far better to try and allow controlled environments as an outlet for natural instinct to socialise to occur. What has gone on since March is unnatural but required to a degree. Six weeks was asked of the populace, this 4 weeks nonsense was never a runner, likewise the ridiculous figures Nphet hoped to achieve. 50 to 100 cases with a RO of .5. I said 6 weeks ago it was rubbish, set up to fail.
Trying to continue a slightly less harsh form of the restrictions we have had for the last 6 weeks into the new year is beyond stupid.

blowitupref · 27-11-2020 12:50AM

HSE update

In hospital 246 (decrease of 7)

In ICU 36.(no change from last night but sadly 3 had died in the last 24 hours)

niallo27 · 27-11-2020 12:51AM

Arghus wrote: »

Do you accept that there's a difference between the stringency of restrictions at level 3 rather than level 5?

Of course yes, do you accept there is still no social outlet for people in level 3.

Richard Hillman · 27-11-2020 12:54AM

There's a reason why Tony Holohan has been in the same job for 12 years, he's useless and not respected. He would have strolled into a EU or WHO job if he was any use. You would bet anything that he did too.

KrustyUCC · 27-11-2020 12:55AM

blowitupref wrote: »

HSE update

In hospital 246 (decrease of 7)

In ICU 36.(no change from last night but sadly 3 had died in the last 24 hours)

That's sad new

RIP to them

The HorsesMouth · 27-11-2020 12:56AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

This actually made me laugh. Kudos.

I’m so frustrated. I don’t want to go to a restaurant. I’ll keep supporting them with takeaway. I just want to be able to have one or two people to my house for a cup of coffee somewhere that is peaceful and it isn’t fecking raining

Maybe I will get slated for this...but the willingness of people to follow whatever rules are put out for them to the letter amazes me.

Just have the people over...Why are you waiting for them to tell you its OK?!!! December 4th..December 24th...it's gonna be the exact same risk...the government can't tell you it's gonna be ok or not ok.

KrustyUCC · 27-11-2020 12:59AM

https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1332103618296766464

That should be positive news for the future

More voices listened to not just NPHET

KrustyUCC · 27-11-2020 01:02AM

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1332099188826525696

That seems reasonable

Will be interesting to see the new rules for restaurants

didyoufart? · 27-11-2020 01:05AM

Is their in anything place for nursing home staff for constant testing like professional sports athletes?

If we could fix the problem with nursing homes that would be a big step to opening back up the ecconomy somewhat with social distancing in place.

eagle eye · 27-11-2020 01:08AM

Plumbthedepths wrote:

Continuing harsh restrictions during the most social time of year is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. It would be far better to try and allow controlled environments as an outlet for natural instinct to socialise to occur. What has gone on since March is unnatural but required to a degree. Six weeks was asked of the populace, this 4 weeks nonsense was never a runner, likewise the ridiculous figures Nphet hoped to achieve. 50 to 100 cases with a RO of .5. I said 6 weeks ago it was rubbish, set up to fail. Trying to continue a slightly less harsh form of the restrictions we have had for the last 6 weeks into the new year is beyond stupid.

This is late November, it's not the most social time of the year. You could argue that two weeks before Christmas is where it begins but for me it's the couple of days before and the week and a bit after that are the most social time of the year.
I'd like us not to be in lockdown then. There's every chance that ending this lockdown now means we are in bad shape at Christmas. If we waited until two weeks before Christmas we would be alright until the New Year.
I'd like a good time at Christmas with no worries about high numbers and the potential of hospitals being overrun.
Do you not think that should be our target?

Arghus · 27-11-2020 01:09AM

niallo27 wrote: »

Of course yes, do you accept there is still no social outlet for people in level 3.

Yes, they are severely curtailed, but the way I would look at it is this: there's no point pretending that we're going to avoid another trip back into harsher restrictions again. We have too many cases right now, as it is, it's just a matter of time before they take off again and everything involved with Christmas is just going to be fuel to that fire.

I understand all the reasons people have for wanting to get out of where we are now: people are tired, fatigued, they want to live, businesses want to operate - but we're being given a false choice here. I understand people want to exit level five for all sorts of human, legitimate reasons - it is gruelling and hard, I've lived through it too - but we are, in my view, simply moving far too early.

I think it's absolutely crazy to move out from level 5 before we've at least got to a stage of between 50-100 cases and what we are doing now is sowing the seeds for more disruption, another harsh lockdown and further closures once again. I know, I know - Christmas etc: but we all have to still get on with life beyond Christmas. We're going to be giving ourselves a taste of freedom - but it's not sustainable, we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

speckle · 27-11-2020 01:11AM

bikeman1 wrote: »

There are plenty of non food pubs right across the towns and cities which would love to be open too. I prefer drinking in them as you don’t have food smells and children in them and it is a far nicer experience IMO.

Agreed the pace can be slower/relaxed and you can hear conversations better or a bit of good music or get a lift home from a non drinker or somebody working behind the bar.

The biggest difference is a lack of public transport down the country to even get to a gastro pub... you can nearly always walk to your local. If I want to meet up with friends 70euros for a taxi home.

I think I will bring a tent, a guitar and kelly kettle for a hot toddie and camp as long as thats not banned yet!

Goldengirl · 27-11-2020 01:12AM

D.Q wrote: »

What is this **** hitting the fan that people are talking about? Wha happened in September/October that was so horrible?

Did deaths rise? Were hospitals overwhelmed?

No and no. Maybe Tony holohan can lead yous all pied piper style to a safe house underground to hide until the vaccine arrives.

Cases rise. Deaths rose too . Hospitals coped because level 3 plus then level 5 introduced .
Where have you been that you don't know this or is your head just permanently stuck....in the sand ?

MOR316 · 27-11-2020 01:15AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

This actually made me laugh. Kudos.

I’m so frustrated. I don’t want to go to a restaurant. I’ll keep supporting them with takeaway. I just want to be able to have one or two people to my house for a cup of coffee somewhere that is peaceful and it isn’t fecking raining

Totally get you and much respect for following the guidelines.

However, it's your personal choice/decision. If you trust the person you'd like over then I see no reason myself.

I've had one person inside my house since March. I trusted him, he didn't have it and wasn't around anyone. Same with me so, it's your call.

FinglasFollain · 27-11-2020 01:15AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Cases rise. Deaths rose too . Hospitals coped because level 3 plus then level 5 introduced .
Where have you been that you don't know this or is your head just permanently stuck....in the sand ?

Many in government believe that Level 3 plus household restrictions are responsible for bringing the numbers down. Are their heads stuck in the sand too?

growleaves · 27-11-2020 01:15AM

eagle eye wrote: »

This is late November, it's not the most social time of the year. You could argue that two weeks before Christmas is where it begins but for me it's the couple of days before and the week and a bit after that are the most social time of the year.
I'd like us not to be in lockdown then. There's every chance that ending this lockdown now means we are in bad shape at Christmas. If we waited until two weeks before Christmas we would be alright until the New Year.
I'd like a good time at Christmas with no worries about high numbers and the potential of hospitals being overrun.
Do you not think that should be our target?

You want to finish two weeks later.

If someone says they want a six-week lockdown and later they're trying to drag it to eight weeks or ten weeks then people will resist going into the next lockdown because they know the time limits are meaningless or at least very elastic.

In spite of what people say there's guarantee of getting to a magic number (100?), and no way of knowing quite how it happened if it does happen (just endless competing theories of causality proposed and counter-posed).

eagle eye · 27-11-2020 01:19AM

growleaves wrote:

If someone says they want a six-week lockdown and later they're trying to drag it to eight weeks or ten weeks then people will resist going into the next lockdown because they know the time limits are meaningless or at least very elastic.

Irish people resist nothing. We didn't resist paying for all the banks in Europe did we? Four years of hell we put up with for that. This is minor stuff in comparison.

Plumbthedepths · 27-11-2020 01:20AM

eagle eye wrote: »

This is late November, it's not the most social time of the year. You could argue that two weeks before Christmas is where it begins but for me it's the couple of days before and the week and a bit after that are the most social time of the year.
I'd like us not to be in lockdown then. There's every chance that ending this lockdown now means we are in bad shape at Christmas. If we waited until two weeks before Christmas we would be alright until the New Year.
I'd like a good time at Christmas with no worries about high numbers and the potential of hospitals being overrun.
Do you not think that should be our target?

My only thoughts on your comment are by stalling you are creating even more pent up demand and is imho beyond stupid and creates the exact situation you fear.

eagle eye · 27-11-2020 01:21AM

Plumbthedepths wrote:

My only thoughts on your comment are by stalling you are creating even more pent up demand and is imho beyond stupid and creates the exact situation you fear.

That only happens if the reopening is badly managed.

ixoy · 27-11-2020 01:23AM

Arghus wrote: »

I think it's absolutely crazy to move out from level 5 before we've at least got to a stage of between 50-100 cases and what we are doing now is sowing the seeds for more disruption, another harsh lockdown and further closures once again.

Do you think retail is going to make that much of a difference? That's what's at Level 3. Restaurants being open indoors, as we will now have it appears, aren't Level 3. Do you think even Level 3 isn't okay?

The household bits of the restrictions will be ignored either way over Christmas and people will just make their own judgement calls.

Plumbthedepths · 27-11-2020 01:26AM

eagle eye wrote: »

That only happens if the reopening is badly managed.

If the government were to follow what you purpose it would be a disaster.
We won't agree so best to leave it at that.

eagle eye · 27-11-2020 01:30AM

Plumbthedepths wrote:

If the government were to follow what you purpose it would be a disaster. We won't agree so best to leave it at that.

Explain why.

growleaves · 27-11-2020 01:32AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Irish people resist nothing. We didn't resist paying for all the banks in Europe did we? Four years of hell we put up with for that. This is minor stuff in comparison.

Not formally no.

But informally lockdown is becoming something people dodge and try to get around.

Fear of covid itself is def on the wane among under-80s.

Goldengirl · 27-11-2020 01:33AM

FinglasFollain wrote: »

Many in government believe that Level 3 plus household restrictions are responsible for bringing the numbers down. Are their heads stuck in the sand too?

Those would be the people in government who didn't think a lockdown was necessary .
Until case numbers went over 1000..

So yes like some others here ,stuck somewhere .

MOR316 · 27-11-2020 01:38AM

See, this is what I'm not understanding...

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1332119453568540672

I have had so many invites to parties happening at Christmas time. I've had people trying to get me to have sessions in my house.
All of this before there was even a mention of pubs/restaurants opening.

Basically, it makes no difference whether the pubs are open or closed, people are still going to have house gatherings so, I'm not sure what he's on about here

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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