Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

Stateofyou wrote: »

I think you've forgotten the fact that what defines a close contact has changed and is very different in the school sector unlike anywhere else. This is deliberate.

It still holds though. Cases don't just disappear. If the definition of a close contact was missing cases en masse, then we would be seeing cases increasing outside of the school context.

We're not. Schools are open and cases are decreasing.

MOR316 wrote: »

That's like saying "Well, some other countries are wearing masks but, that doesn't mean we should logically be required to do the same" which is pretty much what NPHET said back some months ago so...I don't trust them at all, especially Holohan and that's based off his previous. y

Well, yeah. At the time, there was insufficient data to support the use of masks. Other countries did it as a preventative measure. We could have, but the fear was that in the absence of data indicating it's effective, it would cause a shortage of PPE for those we know need it, consumed by those who may not need it.

This is different because we have the data and it doesn't support the assertion that *our* schools are an issue. The study which gave a figure for the risk of schools at a global level basically averaged out data across 130 countries with no regard to health measures in place within schools, density of schools, type of school, local customs, canteens, break ettiquette, etc.

The average figure they gave (IIRC) was something like a 0.2 increase in R0, but the CI was wide. In some countries, opening schools reduced R0. In others it increased it by 0.6.

RTÉ presenters apologise over social distance breaches

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1120/1179383-rte/

I'm looking forward to all the RTE people involved resigning over their 'error in judgement'

Preaching to the rest of society for months yet they can't obey the rules

seamus wrote: »

It still holds though. Cases don't just disappear. If the definition of a close contact was missing cases en masse, then we would be seeing cases increasing outside of the school context.

We're not. Schools are open and cases are decreasing.

Well, yeah. At the time, there was insufficient data to support the use of masks. Other countries did it as a preventative measure. We could have, but the fear was that in the absence of data indicating it's effective, it would cause a shortage of PPE for those we know need it, consumed by those who may not need it.

This is different because we have the data and it doesn't support the assertion that *our* schools are an issue. The study which gave a figure for the risk of schools at a global level basically averaged out data across 130 countries with no regard to health measures in place within schools, density of schools, type of school, local customs, canteens, break ettiquette, etc.

The average figure they gave (IIRC) was something like a 0.2 increase in R0, but the CI was wide. In some countries, opening schools reduced R0. In others it increased it by 0.6.

Sound. Thanks for the reply.

As I said, I've no energy to care anymore but, always love to gather new information and different perspectives

KrustyUCC wrote: »

RTÉ presenters apologise over social distance breaches

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1120/1179383-rte/

I'm looking forward to all the RTE people involved resigning over their 'error in judgement'

Preaching to the rest of society for months yet they can't obey the rules

Wrong thread but, how in God's name is Blathnaid Ni Chofaigh still employeed by RTE?

She literally does nothing but complain about them and bad mouthed them recently to the media

MOR316 wrote: »

There's always a whistle blower...

Anyways, I've nothing against them doing it...Don't care, good luck to them.

Just stop polluting my TV screen with biased opinions and ****e content!

They were published on an internal RTE site so word was bound to get out. Fair enough.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

RTÉ presenters apologise over social distance breaches

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1120/1179383-rte/

I'm looking forward to all the RTE people involved resigning over their 'error in judgement'

Preaching to the rest of society for months yet they can't obey the rules

I know it seems like such a petty matter, but for some reason this **** enrages me.

Not because I hold RTE presenters up on a pedestal, or I consider them to be paragons of virtue.

But because there is no fvkcing excuse for it. "Momentary lapse in judgement" my hole. It's not like any of them "forgot" there was a pandemic on for that brief moment. They knew what they were doing and either decided that they didn't care, or didn't have the balls to not do it.

And then people get all worked up when NPHET accuse workplaces of not sticking to the rules, or people having parties. But if this is taking place in RTE, it's taking place everywhere.

I'm unreasonably irritated by those photos. If everyone makes an exception "just this once" for whatever they're doing, the virus will just keep circulating.

ACitizenErased wrote:

The 7 day positivity rate stabilising =/= cases plateauing

Plateaued means flat, no movement either way.

seamus wrote: »

I know it seems like such a petty matter, but for some reason this **** enrages me.

Not because I hold RTE presenters up on a pedestal, or I consider them to be paragons of virtue.

But because there is no fvkcing excuse for it. "Momentary lapse in judgement" my hole. It's not like any of them "forgot" there was a pandemic on for that brief moment. They knew what they were doing and either decided that they didn't care, or didn't have the balls to not do it.

And then people get all worked up when NPHET accuse workplaces of not sticking to the rules, or people having parties. But if this is taking place in RTE, it's taking place everywhere.

I'm unreasonably irritated by those photos. If everyone makes an exception "just this once" for whatever they're doing, the virus will just keep circulating.

Probably not unreasonable to be honest. We've all become accustomed to giving everyone a wider berth on a footpath or whatever, it's even weird seeing stuff on TV nowadays that involves crowded streets or concert/sporting events from the "before times". Giving someone a hug or posing arms around them for a photo should feel odd to most people these days, as you said – a momentary lapse in judgement my hole.

Eod100 wrote: »

It was stupid mistake but think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this country who has followed 100% of the guidelines 100% of the time. Would wonder about whoever thought it was a good idea in the first place but also to put the photos online.

The way RTE go on you wouldn't think so

What's went wrong?
Aren't people following the regulations?

Yes RTE ye aren't

Now in the scheme of things it's not too bad but yet they have been preaching to the rest of society for months

Even with the golfgate thing RTE had no problem saying the people shouldn't have attended yet like golfgate they thought their retirement do was above the rules

Newho I'll leave RTE there

No excuses for RTE. Their workplace clearly not following guidelines like the rest of us. Clearly a large gathering there with sporadic mask wearing. Only see one woman with mask in hand as if she was wearing it just prior. And all of these people would have been very vocal about golf gate of course, miriam, dobbo etc

Not to mention RTE had an outbreak pretty early on the year.

hmmm wrote: »

No they haven't.

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You know they didn't skip animal trials? You can literally view the papers on the animal trials.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-data-preclinical-studies-mrna

please read my post again.
You are misquoting me and also ignoring the reference I posted.

Now in the scheme of things it's not too bad but yet they have been preaching to the rest of society for months

Yes although the rules themselves should be done away with for two reasons:

1) Their impossibility. In end no one can be social distancing long term and (virtually) no one is. Maybe a very small few people are managing to successfully torture themselves. I've read of old people dying alone in the UK having seen nobody for several months. Very sad.

2) Unproven. No one has asked for cast-iron repeated empirical testing to verify the social distancing theory, and no one will ask. In fact the entire society-wide cult around 'science' (undefined) is a giant sham.

You can see Varadkar going around in a car with a driver, with no mask. Etc. Endless examples if you look for them

froog wrote: »

NPHET aren't some cartoon like sinister supervillian team. they're a bunch of academics and public health experts genuinely doing their best to save lives in a very very difficult situation and against an uncomfortably growing misinformation, conspiracy theory and anti science culture we have inherited from the USA. they get some things wrong, but they are good people doing their best under enormous pressure and they have us in a good position right now. i'd rather be in ireland than any other country in the world dealing with COVID right now and if everyone is being totally honest they'd think the same.

I would agree in principle.

However, we do need to be clear that nphet aren’t playing games with the numbers, because if they do they lose all credibility.

I’m not suggesting for a second that they are falsifying them, but sometimes their presentation leaves a bit to be desired.

For example nphet have said that there are far more people using the roads - and by implication travelling to work - than in lockdown mark1.

This is true, but the clear implication from nphet is that it is this that has caused the recent increase in numbers. The numbers travelling around havent materially changed since we went on level 5, nor has street drinking , or anything else.

So the increase in week 4 isn’t caused by any material change in behaviour since week one.

That begs the question - what has caused it?

And I don’t think that anyone, including nphet, does.

So why are we locking the whole country down to solve a problem when we don’t know what’s causing the problem?